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'[PIC]: MPLAB SIM Q...'
2002\05\19@155556 by Pic Dude

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Just started playing with MPLAB Simulator, and set up a watch window
which includes "W".  However, I noticed that W does not change as it
should in that window, but the W in Special Function Register Window
works properly.  So far, I've not found anything in the helpfile that
"fixes"
this.

Any ideas?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2002\05\19@160947 by Bob Ammerman

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Believe it or not....

use a lower-case 'w'!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pic Dude" <spam_OUTpicdudeTakeThisOuTspamAVN-TECH.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: [PIC]: MPLAB SIM Q...


{Quote hidden}

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2002\05\19@173631 by Olin Lathrop

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> Just started playing with MPLAB Simulator, and set up a watch window
> which includes "W".  However, I noticed that W does not change as it
> should in that window, but the W in Special Function Register Window
> works properly.  So far, I've not found anything in the helpfile that
> "fixes"
> this.
>
> Any ideas?

Yeah, use the special function register window.  I always keep that up
anyway.


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2002\05\19@184618 by Pic Dude

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Bummer.  Would've been nice to have a watch list better customized
to what I want to monitor.  Especially since I'm doing this on a
laptop --- need to reduce screen clutter.

Cheers,
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\05\19@192435 by Olin Lathrop

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> Bummer.  Would've been nice to have a watch list better customized
> to what I want to monitor.  Especially since I'm doing this on a
> laptop --- need to reduce screen clutter.

I use a 1600 x 1200 19 inch monitor for MPLAB, so I never considered trying
to do away with the special function register window.  I wasn't aware you
could use lower case "w" as Bob pointed out.


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2002\05\19@203303 by Pic Dude

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That resolution's ideal.  In my Windows programming
days (Win 3.x), I used a dual-monitor setup (extra
monochrome video card and monitor to watch code,
variables, etc while the app ran on the regular
monitor).  That was really nice.

What do you mean by 'lower case "w" as Bob pointed
out' ?  Something tells me I'm missing some emails
cause I didn't even get my original post to this
thread....hmmm....

Cheers,
-Neil.




{Original Message removed}

2002\05\19@204000 by Bob Ammerman

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Olin said:
> I use a 1600 x 1200 19 inch monitor for MPLAB, so I never considered
trying
> to do away with the special function register window.  I wasn't aware you
> could use lower case "w" as Bob pointed out.

I use a 1600 x 1200 15 inch LCD, but even with all those pixels I am always
looking for screen space.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2002\05\19@204215 by Bob Ammerman

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What I said is that you can put 'w' (lower-case) on the watch list and see
the w register.
'W' (upper-case) does not work

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pic Dude" <picdudespamKILLspamAVN-TECH.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: MPLAB SIM Q...


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2002\05\19@205028 by Pic Dude

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Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner.  Still didn't
get Bob's email (more worried now), but I inferred
that there was a difference between the lower-case
'w' in the Special-Fn-Reg Window, and the upper-case
'W' in the watch window.  Dropped in a lower-case
'w' in the watch window and it works!

Sweet, thanks!
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\05\19@212851 by Pic Dude

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Hey cool.  Figured that was what was implied my
Olin's paraphrase of it.  Works like a charm.  Thanks
much.

-Neil.


{Original Message removed}

2002\05\20@012342 by Bob Barr

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On Sun, 19 May 2002 20:33:10 -0400, Bob Ammerman wrote:

>Olin said:
>> I use a 1600 x 1200 19 inch monitor for MPLAB, so I never considered
>trying
>> to do away with the special function register window.  I wasn't aware you
>> could use lower case "w" as Bob pointed out.
>
>I use a 1600 x 1200 15 inch LCD, but even with all those pixels I am always
>looking for screen space.
>

From now on, we'll have to start referring to you as Bob 'Eagle Eye'
Ammerman. :=)
My eyes have a hard enough time with 1024 x 768 on a 15" monitor, let
alone anything higher. Does the fact that you have an LCD rather than
a tube perhaps make the 1600 x 1200 more readable on the smaller
screen?


Regards, Bob

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2002\05\20@024606 by Mircea Chiriciuc

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Just wondered, what's the difference between 'W' and 'w' in MPLAB SIMM?

Mircea Chiriciuc
EMCO INVEST


{Original Message removed}

2002\05\20@031151 by Mike Singer

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Bob wrote:

> My eyes have a hard enough time with 1024 x 768 on a 15" monitor,
> let alone anything higher. Does the fact that you have an LCD rather
> than a tube perhaps make the 1600 x 1200 more readable on the
> smaller screen?

  Bob, decent 15" monitor screen has approximately 280 mm width
with 0.2mm dot step thus 280/0.2=1400 pixels. LCD 15" has wider
visible area then 15" tube. So 1600 makes sense.

  Mike.

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2002\05\20@070621 by Bob Ammerman

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>> could use lower case "w" as Bob pointed out.
>>
>>I use a 1600 x 1200 15 inch LCD, but even with all those pixels I am
always
{Quote hidden}

It being an LCD makes all the difference. In comparison, my Macintosh's 21"
monitor at 1152 x 870 isn't quite as readable as the notebook's LCD.
Sometimes I do find myself setting a slightly larger font size in some
programs. For some reason, my aging eyes are still doing very well at screen
distance, although for very close work (ie: working on a PCB) and longer
distances (movies, driving) I am starting to encounter trouble. I'll
probably go straight from no glasses at all to trifocals. ;-(

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2002\05\20@071713 by Bob Ammerman

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> Just wondered, what's the difference between 'W' and 'w' in MPLAB SIMM?
>
> Mircea Chiriciuc
> EMCO INVEST
>

For some reason, known only to Microchip, both 'W' and 'w' are available in
the list of registers for the watch window. However, if you try to watch 'W'
you will see a register whose value never changes. Using 'w' works fine.

This probably has something to do with the fact that W isn't a normal file
register and doesn't have a normal address (at least on 12 and 14 bit
cores).

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2002\05\20@083205 by Olin Lathrop

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> I use a 1600 x 1200 15 inch LCD, but even with all those pixels I am
always
> looking for screen space.

I use a very rigid layout where every window has a specific place.  Source
windows are on the left, the program memory window in the middle, and the
special function window at right.  Along the bottom are various watch
windows, with my "standard" registers always on the left.  The bottom right
corner is of the stack window or sometimes the stopwatch window.  I have to
take a little extra time to carefully place each window the first time it
appears, but after that MPLAB remembers.  I took a screen snapshop, reduced
it to 1024 wide and 8 bits and put it up at
http://www.embedinc.com/pic/mpl.gif.  With this scheme I usually have
everything I want to see on a 1600 x 1200 screen at the same time.


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2002\05\20@085758 by Olin Lathrop

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> For some reason, known only to Microchip, both 'W' and 'w' are available
in
> the list of registers for the watch window. However, if you try to watch
'W'
> you will see a register whose value never changes. Using 'w' works fine.
>
> This probably has something to do with the fact that W isn't a normal file
> register and doesn't have a normal address (at least on 12 and 14 bit
> cores).

I wonder if maybe W has something to do with the W symbol defined in the
include files intended for the "d" argument to some instructions, like:

  ADDWF  regname, w


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2002\05\20@100636 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       I guess similar minds do think alike Olin, that's looks almost exactly like
the layout I use, except I run at only 1280x1024 so everything is a little
smaller, still for a moment there I thought you broke into my computer and
took a screen shot! :) TTYL

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2002\05\20@112411 by Pic Dude

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What about Z and C?  Any easy way to see that?  Or maybe a
way to show the status register in the watch window in
binary format?  STATUS in the watch window works, but is
in hex format.  I also experimented with Z and C in the
watch window, but got incoherent results with those.

Another thing I would like to see is the elapsed clock
cycles so I can tell when it's getting close to generating
a TMR0 interrupt (and others).  But I haven't experimented
with that yet.

Cheers,
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\05\20@114721 by Jinx

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> What I said is that you can put 'w' (lower-case) on the watch list
> and see the w register.
> 'W' (upper-case) does not work

In the Watch window "W" shows an address of 00 (as in
the 16F877.inc file), "w" the address 200, which for the
16F877 is 1 past the end of bank3 registers and not an
addressable register, unlike the 17 and18 series IIRC
which do allow direct access to W via an address

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2002\05\20@121754 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

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How about looking at the status bar in the botton of the window ???  There
you will find the tree flags: C, DC and Z. C=1 and c=0, and so on ...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pic Dude" <RemoveMEpicdudeEraseMEspamEraseMEAVN-TECH.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: MPLAB SIM Q...


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> {Original Message removed}

2002\05\20@123218 by Pic Dude

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Simple as that, huh?  Doh!
Just checked mine and it show uppercase Z when set, lower
case when not, etc.  Sweet.

I also noticed that 'w' is also shown on that status bar.

Thanks,
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\05\20@132634 by Olin Lathrop

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> What about Z and C?  Any easy way to see that?  Or maybe a
> way to show the status register in the watch window in
> binary format?  STATUS in the watch window works, but is
> in hex format.  I also experimented with Z and C in the
> watch window, but got incoherent results with those.

Look on the status line at the bottom of the window.  It includes that
status bits among other things.

> Another thing I would like to see is the elapsed clock
> cycles so I can tell when it's getting close to generating
> a TMR0 interrupt (and others).  But I haven't experimented
> with that yet.

For elapsed cycles, use the stopwatch window, although this unfortunately
only works in the simulator.  For seeing how close you are to a timer 0
interrupt, just look at the TMR0 register.


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2002\05\20@140009 by Darrel Johansen

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The difference is that "W" is defined in the header file along with "F"
as:
W                            EQU     H'0000'
F                            EQU     H'0001'

This is for use in operands to define whether the result goes into the
WREG or the File Reg.  All of the SFR's are defined internally in the
simulator as lower case names.  Usually these are defined in the header
file as upper case, so it doesn't matter which you use in a watch window.

You can see this if you try to choose registers from the Watch window
display before you have built a project.  All symbols are lower case. When
you build a project and bring in symbols from you source code and header
files, you'll see the upper case "W."

Darrel Johansen
Microchip

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2002\05\20@184045 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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The standard MPLAB Stopwatch has a display in program cycles (as well as
time).

Regards

Mike

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2002\05\20@202141 by Andrew Warren

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Olin Lathrop <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I wonder if maybe W has something to do with the W symbol defined in
> the include files intended for the "d" argument to some instructions,
> like:  ADDWF  regname, w

   Yes, that's exactly why "W" appears in the list of registers
   along with "w"... And it's one of the multitude of reasons not to
   use the include files provided by Microchip.

   The PIC assembler has ALWAYS understood the ",w" and ",f" (and
   ",W" and ",F") operands without explicit W or F definitions in
   the source code.  Defining those two symbols in the include
   files was both unnecessary and dangerous; Microchip should
   instead have made them reserved words.

   -Andy

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2002\05\20@202750 by Vitaliy

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<snip>
>Or maybe a
> way to show the status register in the watch window in
> binary format?  STATUS in the watch window works, but is
> in hex format.
<\snip>

You can set up any register to be displayed in watch window in binary, hex, decimal, or even ascii format by clicking on the top
left corner of the watch window and then clicking on the Edit Watch in the popup menu. In the poped up window select the register
you are interested in and click Properties.

Regards,

Vitaliy

P.S. Not only you can see Status register in the status bar, but  W accumulator an Program Counter as well.

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2002\05\21@081534 by Olin Lathrop

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>     Yes, that's exactly why "W" appears in the list of registers
>     along with "w"... And it's one of the multitude of reasons not to
>     use the include files provided by Microchip.
>
>     The PIC assembler has ALWAYS understood the ",w" and ",f" (and
>     ",W" and ",F") operands without explicit W or F definitions in
>     the source code.  Defining those two symbols in the include
>     files was both unnecessary and dangerous; Microchip should
>     instead have made them reserved words.

The Microchip include files aren't perfect, but it is still far more
dangerous not to use them.


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2002\05\21@175430 by Andrew Warren

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Olin Lathrop <TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> The Microchip include files aren't perfect, but it is still far
> more dangerous not to use them.

Olin:

I can make a compelling case for NOT using Microchip's include files,
but I'm aware of your position on that issue and I believe that your
arguments FOR using the files are not unreasonable... So I guess
we'll just have to agree to disagree.

-Andy

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