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'[PIC]: ICD Pin-out and seminar plug'
2000\06\21@233747 by John E. Andrews

picon face
Hi All,

Below is a paste from the file readme.icd, which you will find in the
MPLAB directory on your harddisk.

I would add one correction to this: do not connect pin 6 to RB3. This is
an error in the way Transdata implemented the ICD and is not required or
recommended.

I would also point out that any way of making the 5 connections of pins
1-5 from the ICD to your target 16F87x will work. One method I find useful
is to use a modular plug with flying leads (wires instead of pcb mount)
(Hirose H9016 on page 67 of the Jan DigiKey catalog will do). This may be
plugged onto the 8" cord from the debug module and then connected to your
target in any convenient way. I've even installed clips on the ends of the
5 wires and clipped onto the debug target. However if you do have room for
the pcb mount modular plug on your board I believe this to be the most
reliable method of connecting.

As long as I'm breaking my usual lurker silence I'd also like to remind
everyone that you can obtain an ICD from Microchip at the discount price
of $130 US by simply registering for the ICD promo package and attending a
Microchip seminar. This includes the ICD, the seminar, lunch, cookies, and
the company of a room full of like minded nerds. Discussion includes many
Microchip products, analog design methodology for embedded systems,
connectivity (USB, CAN, Internet), and lots of engineering jokes about
marketing and management. Don't miss out.

Happy Debugging...

John E. A.

---beginning of paste---

-----------------------------------------------------------------
MPLAB-ICD DEBUG CONNECTOR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A diagram of the debug connector was omitted from the previous
version of the MPLAB-ICD User's Guide.  This drawing will be
included in the updated manual. You can put this connector on
your target board to connect the MPLAB-ICD debugger module to the
16F87x processor on your application.

Use an AMP 5-554710-3 plug, 6-6 Strand Round Modular Plug, or
equivalent.

You can order this part from Digikey, A9117-ND.

Debug connector pinouts for J1 on MPLAB-ICD Header and J2 on the
MPLAB-ICD Demo Board:
       1: VPP
       2: VDD
       3: GND
       4: RB7
       5: RB6
       6: RB3


J1 and J2 Debug Connectors as viewed from the top of the circuit
boards:

+-------------------------+
|        ( )              |
|                      () | --> MCLR/VPP
|                  ()     | --> VDD
|                      () | --> GND
|                  ()     | --> RB7
|                      () | --> RB6
|                  ()     | --> RB3
|        ( )              |
+-------------------------+

---end of paste---

2000\06\22@014222 by Brent Brown

picon face
John E. Andrews wrote:
> I would add one correction to this: do not connect pin 6 to RB3. This is
> an error in the way Transdata implemented the ICD and is not required or
> recommended.

Hi John,

Can you please spell out exactly why it's not reccomended to
connect pin 6 to RB3?

Something to do with the vagueries of LVP right? I'm doing a
PIC16F876 design right now, and am going to use a 6 pin SIL
header for the ICD connection. I could end up producing a
programming gadget for in the field programming, so I need to
decide now if I should make this pin available for LVP.

Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile: 025 334 069
eMail:  spam_OUTbrent.brownTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz

2000\06\24@181340 by John E. Andrews

picon face
Brent Brown wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>Can you please spell out exactly why it's not recommended to
>connect pin 6 to RB3?
>
>Something to do with the vagueries of LVP right? I'm doing a
>PIC16F876 design right now, and am going to use a 6 pin SIL
>header for the ICD connection. I could end up producing a
>programming gadget for in the field programming, so I need to
>decide now if I should make this pin available for LVP.
>
Hi Brent,

You're exactly right. The RB3 pin is only used for low voltage
programming. While the chips come from the factory with this mode enabled,
in case you want to use it as your first programming method, the ICD (and
all other commercial programmers that I know of) use the more traditional
13v, programming method. So when you debug with the ICD its important to
disable this mode in the configuration word unless you take the
appropriate steps to prevent an inadvertent high on RB3, which will cause
the device to stop running and go into programming mode.

Making this connection to the ICD isn't required since the ICD uses the
13v method. Its not recommended since it uses another one of your I/O pins
that otherwise you could use for something else.

If you intend to make use of the low voltage programming method for a
field programmer, then you will need to take the appropriate steps to
insure that this pin is normally pulled down to keep the device out of
programming mode. Then your programming device can pull the pin high when
you want it to program. Even in this situation I would not connect RB3 to
the ICD as this might interfere with your custom programmer interface.

I have seen others use the low voltage method to allow other chips in
their system to program the PIC with 5v only signals and also use the ICD
with its normal 13v programming method for s/w debug (in this case don't
disable LVP). So the concept you have in mind has been used successfully.

I hope I've helped clarify instead of confuse the issues. If you need any
design support please call Microchip and tell them its imperative that
they transfer me to New Zealand to help out!! 8-) I'd love to be the
Australia / New Zealand FAE!

Good Luck with your project and Have Fun!!!

John E. A.

2000\06\25@214708 by Brent Brown

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Thanks John,

Exactly what I wanted to know. Hmmm, LVP would be nice, but
then again an extra I/O pin would go a long way in this design!
Yep, I need the I/O, give LVP away, decision made.

Great idea  - being a FAE in New Zealand that is. Except when you
tell anyone your job position they might think you're another one of
our farmers.

Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile: 025 334 069
eMail:  .....brent.brownKILLspamspam@spam@clear.net.nz

2000\06\26@144222 by Oliver Broad

picon face
John E. A. Wrote:
>>
You're exactly right. The RB3 pin is only used for low voltage
programming. While the chips come from the factory with this mode enabled,
in case you want to use it as your first programming method, the ICD (and
all other commercial programmers that I know of) use the more traditional
13v, programming method. So when you debug with the ICD its important to
disable this mode in the configuration word unless you take the
appropriate steps to prevent an inadvertent high on RB3, which will cause
the device to stop running and go into programming mode.

Making this connection to the ICD isn't required since the ICD uses the
13v method. Its not recommended since it uses another one of your I/O pins
that otherwise you could use for something else.
<<

Thanks. That makes things clearer. Reading the lit. I was getting the
impression that RB3 could not be connected to the target circuit and
had/had not to be connected to the ICD. I suppose given an application
where MCLR had to be kept below VCC the ICD could be switched to use RB3
instead but I gather this option isn't offered. I guess I should look back
at the errata about the header board and RB3 and see if it makes more
sense.

2000\06\26@162438 by briang

flavicon
face
In-Reply-To: <OFBD48F115.91DA34BD-ON88256908.0077B67FspamKILLspammicrochip.com>

"John E. Andrews" <.....John.AndrewsKILLspamspam.....MICROCHIP.COM> wrote:
> You're exactly right. The RB3 pin is only used for low voltage
> programming. While the chips come from the factory with this mode enabled,
> in case you want to use it as your first programming method, the ICD (and
> all other commercial programmers that I know of) use the more traditional
> 13v, programming method. So when you debug with the ICD its important to
> disable this mode in the configuration word unless you take the
> appropriate steps to prevent an inadvertent high on RB3, which will cause
> the device to stop running and go into programming mode.

I thought the connection from the ICD to RB3 was to make sure the PIC didn't
go into LVP mode when the ICD was trying to program it using the high
voltage mode.

Is this not in fact necessary?

Brian Gregory.
EraseMEbriangspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcix.co.uk

2000\06\27@130812 by John E. Andrews

picon face
Brian Gregory wrote:
>
>I thought the connection from the ICD to RB3 was to make sure the PIC
didn't
>go into LVP mode when the ICD was trying to program it using the high
>voltage mode.
>
>Is this not in fact necessary?
>

Hi Brian,

You're way too logical and reasonable 8-) (I'd advise against a career in
Field Apps or other sales related functions, the collision between logic
and the "perception is reality" crowd can be painfully frustrating 8-)

All jest aside, you raise a very good point. Consider that programmers
designed and built before the low voltage programming mode of the 16F87x
series must also be able to program these devices, but these programmers
make no connection to RB3. The device is intended to be able to handle
this situation.

This is illustrated in the recent errata to the new 16F870/16F871/16F872:
...
Programming issues.  During programming if input pin RB3 is left floating
the device can incorrectly enter programming mode.  Work around is to
drive RB3 low or to use a 10K Ohm resistor between RB3 and ground.

This issue will be addressed in the next version of silicon.
Samples on the next silicon revision are scheduled for August.
Please reference the errata's on the web site for detail information.
www.microchip.com/10/Lit/Errata/ER870871/index.htm
www.microchip.com/10/Lit/Errata/ER16F872/index.htm
... (sic)

Please note, this does note affect the 16F873/16F874/16F876/16F877.

One other somewhat related detail, the 13v programming method is never
disabled. It will function when low voltage mode is enabled or disabled.
The problem above is that programming mode is entered at an inappropriate
time.

I'm glad to see the ICD becoming very popular. It saddens me to see so
many newbies still selecting a programmer as their first dev tool. The
"learn and burn" debug technique is really the most difficult and
completely inappropriate for learning about PIC. (I'm not referring to
respondents to this thread but to PIClisters in general) The single step,
variable watching, and breakpoint capability of the ICD offers a MUCH more
informative environment for debugging firmware for newbies and experienced
programmers alike. The ICD offers this environment at a cost that would
previously only buy a programmer.

Bye for now...

John E. A.

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