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'[PIC]: What would be the best cheesie PIC'
2009\07\10@165925 by AGSCalabrese

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I want a PIC with two ADC inputs ( 10bits ) , 8 GPIO , a  
timer ......     It can be as slow as molasses.   What is crucial to  
me is that it is $5 or less: that I can pick up a cheep and trivial  
method of programming it ( $25 ) ; that I can get a cheep development  
IDE with Basic or C or whatever ($ 25 )  ; that it runs on 3.3 or 5  
volts.   The bigger the physical size of the pins, the better.  DIP is  
better than SOIC, etc.

I want to quickly bang out a really creepy , dirty , data aquisition  
device that samples two ADC inputs twice per second and talks to  
another device via SPI  ( in, out, clk ) as the slave to a master.    
There will be no demand on the PIC ; the SPI will be slow ( 1K bit per  
second )  , with a total traffic of maybe 50 - 100 bits per  
second ) .  The master will not bother the PIC for .25 seconds after  
asking for status so there is plenty of time to complete an ADC cycle.

Gus

2009\07\10@171655 by Bob Blick

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On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:58:18 -0600, "AGSCalabrese" <spam_OUTagscalTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com>
said:
> I want a PIC with two ADC inputs ( 10bits ) , 8 GPIO , a  
> timer ......     It can be as slow as molasses.   What is crucial to  
> me is that it is $5 or less: that I can pick up a cheep and trivial  
> method of programming it ( $25 ) ; that I can get a cheep development  
> IDE with Basic or C or whatever ($ 25 )  ; that it runs on 3.3 or 5  
> volts.   The bigger the physical size of the pins, the better.  DIP is  
> better than SOIC, etc.
>
> I want to quickly bang out a really creepy , dirty , data aquisition  
> device that samples two ADC inputs twice per second and talks to  
> another device via SPI  ( in, out, clk ) as the slave to a master.    
> There will be no demand on the PIC ; the SPI will be slow ( 1K bit per  
> second )  , with a total traffic of maybe 50 - 100 bits per  
> second ) .  The master will not bother the PIC for .25 seconds after  
> asking for status so there is plenty of time to complete an ADC cycle.


16F684 is a pretty good choice in a 14 pin DIP package.

Cheers,

Bob

--
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2009\07\10@171956 by olin piclist

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AGSCalabrese wrote:
> I want a PIC with two ADC inputs ( 10bits ) , 8 GPIO , a
> timer ......     It can be as slow as molasses.   What is crucial to
> me is that it is $5 or less:

That's easy.  Plenty of PICs fit that.

> that I can pick up a cheep and trivial
> method of programming it ( $25 ) ;

That severly limits any commercial offerings.  My LProg actually fits this,
http://www.embedinc.com/products, but it's for the 3.3V only PICs.

> that I can get a cheep development
> IDE with Basic or C or whatever ($ 25 )

MPLAB is free.  This is such a simple application I don't understand why it
has to be Basic or C, but you can use some free compiler version with little
or no optimization since you don't care about speed or code size.

> that it runs on 3.3 or 5 volts.

That's all PICs I believe.

> The bigger the physical size of the pins, the better.  DIP is
> better than SOIC, etc.

Plenty of PICs come in DIP, including some 3.3V 18F parts.

> I want to quickly bang out a really creepy , dirty , data aquisition
> device that samples two ADC inputs twice per second and talks to
> another device via SPI  ( in, out, clk ) as the slave to a master.
> There will be no demand on the PIC ; the SPI will be slow ( 1K bit per
> second )  , with a total traffic of maybe 50 - 100 bits per
> second ) .  The master will not bother the PIC for .25 seconds after
> asking for status so there is plenty of time to complete an ADC cycle.

Your requirements are somewhat contradictory.  This is apparently a one off,
so it doesn't make sense that everything be so cheap since you're only
buying it once.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\07\10@172839 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Is there any particular reason to *not* use the
paramatric search tool at Microchip ?
Apart from that "molasses" is not a parameter
in that tool...




AGSCalabrese wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\10@181840 by AGSCalabrese

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Olin  Thanks for the ideas.  No......  this is not a one off ( maybe  
100 ) , but it is competing with doing the same
thing with an SPI ADC and a SPI GPIO.  I would like to reduce the  
parts count because of the cheesy way
these will be assembled.  ( don't ask )  Maybe I can live with 3.3V.
Gus

2009\07\10@195507 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Jul 10, 2009, at 1:58 PM, AGSCalabrese wrote:

> I want a PIC with two ADC inputs ( 10bits ) , 8 GPIO , a
> timer ......     It can be as slow as molasses.   What is crucial to
> me is that it is $5 or less: that I can pick up a cheep and trivial
> method of programming it ( $25 ) ; that I can get a cheep development
> IDE with Basic or C or whatever ($ 25 )  ; that it runs on 3.3 or 5
> volts.   The bigger the physical size of the pins, the better.  DIP is
> better than SOIC, etc.

You know, this is exactly the sort of thing that results in the  
popularity of the BASIC Stamp, Arduino, and other similar "plug and  
play" microcontroller solutions.

An Arduino will cost between $10 and $40 dollars, but includes the  
"programmer" and "development environment in C" for free (complete  
with pre-done analog input functions.)  So the "total expenditure" is  
well within the $55 budget you mention.  And the "pins" are even  
bigger than a DIP.  Given only "passing familiarity" with  
microcomputer programming, you could churn out a working prototype in  
a day.

I think a BASIC Stamp would run a bit more $$ (but still less than  
$55) and not have as many options for "commoditization" of subsequent  
builds, but it's also a possibility.

BillW

2009\07\11@102805 by olin piclist

face picon face
AGSCalabrese wrote:
> Olin  Thanks for the ideas.  No......  this is not a one off ( maybe
> 100 )

Then it doesn't make sense why the tools need to be free or ultra low cost.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\07\11@155232 by AGSCalabrese

picon face
Well it makes sense to me.
I am trying to give my customer a low cost design and any
tolls I buy come out of my pocket.   I  am open to see what
I have missed.
Gus


> On Jul 11, 2009, at 8:29 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> AGSCalabrese wrote:
>> Olin  Thanks for the ideas.  No......  this is not a one off ( maybe
>> 100 )
>
> Then it doesn't make sense why the tools need to be free or ultra  
> low cost.
>
>

2009\07\11@163120 by olin piclist

face picon face
AGSCalabrese wrote:
> I am trying to give my customer a low cost design and any
> tolls I buy come out of my pocket.

If this is a one off job for you and you don't plan to do it again, then you
should charge the customer for your tools, then give them to him when you're
done.  If you do plan to do it again, get decent tools so that you:

1 - Don't look like an idiot.

2 - Can get this job and others done reliably and in reasonable time.

Even if you kept the tools, your customer might still be better off if you
charged him for reasonable ones and then charged for less of your time
farting around with bad tools.

When you're doing work professionally, el-cheapo tools rarely make sense.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\07\12@011442 by Tony Smith

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face
{Quote hidden}

Or the PicAxe.  It's just the bare chip and needs a 3-wire serial cable for
programming.  

Runs Basic though, which might annoy the 'Real Men' (TM), but the customer
need never know, and won't unless you tell them.

Tony

2009\07\12@031835 by Heinz Czychun
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On 12-Jul-09, at 1:12 AM, Tony Smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

   Ah, yes the PICAxe that reminds me. Just ran across them a little  
while ago. Checkout

PICAXE-18X Datalogger

http://194.201.138.187/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/
Store.TechSupplies/Products/AXE110P

Heinz

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