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'[PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontrol'
2002\10\02@112436 by Tal Dayan

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Hello,

I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
(preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
at least 1K of ROM.

Microchip has the 16F675 that fits the requirements but I am not sure we can
get them that cheap.

A friend mentioned that some no-name manufactures in Asia have similar
microcontrollers for 40c and
less but could not come with any name.

Any idea how we should go about this ?

Any idea or pointer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tal

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2002\10\02@120454 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Tal Dayan
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 23:23
> To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
> (preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
> at least 1K of ROM.

Hi Tal,

Also look at the AVR ATiny15, it is cheap in big Qty and has 1k rom, 64bytes
EEprom and 32 registers (can be used as 32 Sram bytes)

Regards,

Kat.
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2002\10\02@142043 by ian.forse

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Why not try Motorola Nitron 68HC908, dev board arrived on my desk today, I
believe launched on Monday but is actually available (dig at Microchip
here).  Spec is shown for 8 pin device

CORE: BUS SPEED: TIMER: VOLTAGE: RAM: SCI/SPI:
EXT. INTERRUPTS: OSCILLATOR:
OTHER FEATURES:
0.5 Micron HC08 8 MHz (125 ns min instruction) 8 bit ADC, 2-Ch 16-bit timer
with IC, OC
or PWM 2.7 V   5.5 V 128 bytes Software programmable/app note available
IRQ, KBI, Timer IC - Internal oscillator with 3.2 MHz nominal frequency,
trimmable +/-25%, +/-5% accuracy - Optional ext. RC, external clock or
external resonator/xtal LVI, COP with auto wakeup from STOP, KBI

Very low cost.

The free development software that comes with it is Metrowerks Codewarrior
for
asm and C compiler including simulator, serial programming, real time
debugging etc.

Regards

Ian


> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\02@153630 by Tim McDonough

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On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:23:26 -0700, Tal Dayan wrote:

>I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million)
>small (preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC,
>Comparator, EEPROM and at least 1K of ROM.

The Arrow Electronics blurb on the new Motorola processors claims about 70 cents in single piece quantities for the low end part. Should be easy to hit your target price or lower at a million pieces.

Tim

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2002\10\02@162009 by llile

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Wow, Tal, you must be in the toaster business because you talk just like I
do.   Tell Mchip how cheap you want it.  If you talk millions, they start
to get down in the mud.

-- Lawrence Lile
Senior Project Engineer
Toastmaster, Inc.
Division of Salton, Inc.
573-446-5661 voice
573-446-5676 fax




Tal Dayan <talspamspam_OUTZAPTA.COM>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
10/02/02 10:23 AM
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       cc:
       Subject:        [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?


Hello,

I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
(preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
at least 1K of ROM.

Microchip has the 16F675 that fits the requirements but I am not sure we
can
get them that cheap.

A friend mentioned that some no-name manufactures in Asia have similar
microcontrollers for 40c and
less but could not come with any name.

Any idea how we should go about this ?

Any idea or pointer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tal

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2002\10\02@171139 by Wagner Lipnharski

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The AVR ATtiny12 in mid range goes for $0.65, with all except the ADC,
Microchip can't get close to this.  AVR ATtiny15 im mid quantity can be
found around $0.75, and has all you specified as required... good choice,
probably for a million pieces you can get prices in the same range you
need, or better.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Wagner Lipnharski - UST Research Inc
Orlando FLorida - USA - http://www.ustr.net
/_/_/_/ Atmel AVR Consultant /_/_/_/

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2002\10\03@113307 by Tal Dayan

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Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
built in
sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
parameters,
status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the ONLY
way
to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.

BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.

(just kidding of course)

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\03@134700 by llile

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Ha Ha!  We recycle our used test bread through our stomachs - maybe that
is an option for your products as well?  (also just kidding)

Serioulsy, I am curious what you are building (assuming you are at liberty
to say).    Holtek has been mentioned as a low cost supplier, and they DID
have a PIC16C54  clone at one time if they haven't been sued recently
about it.   I'd also be curious to know what they are in volume.  I am
willing to bet that MCHIP will match anybody's price, too.

Note to ye Flamers - I am NOT condoning third party efforts to rip off or
clone Microchip's designs, and I am quite fearful about designing in a
micro from some outfit I don't know much about.

-- Lawrence Lile





Tal Dayan <RemoveMEtalspamTakeThisOuTZAPTA.COM>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
10/03/02 10:29 AM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list


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       cc:
       Subject:        Re: [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?


Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
built in
sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
parameters,
status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the
ONLY
way
to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.

BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.

(just kidding of course)

Tal

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2002\10\03@171616 by Bill Westfield

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   Holtek has been mentioned as a low cost supplier, and they DID have a
   PIC16C54 clone at one time if they haven't been sued recently about it.

I didn't think that any of the clones had eeprom (yet?)  Neither do the new
motorola parts, although they may squeak by since I think their internal
flash memory is self-programmable.

BillW

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2002\10\03@173545 by ian.forse

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The motorola (Nitron) part has flash, 1.5K is smallest + built in Monitor
program but there is an application note on how to use it as eeprom, I am
led to belive it is the same on the MPS430.  As I have only been working
with it for a few days I haven't got that far.

In the range the 8 pin device only uses 1 dedicated line for programming
from an RS232 port and the IRQ input (momentarily at power up) so you have 5
pins available one of which is an input only.  The other 4 can be
ADC/IO/PWM/Oscillator.

Ian Forse

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\03@230953 by Russell McMahon

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> I didn't think that any of the clones had eeprom (yet?)  Neither do the
new
> motorola parts, although they may squeak by since I think their internal
> flash memory is self-programmable.

Yes, it is, BUT AFAIK the cpu stops processing during flash writing!



       RM

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2002\10\04@043618 by Eric Bohlman

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10/3/02 10:29:25 AM, Tal Dayan <EraseMEtalspamspamspamBeGoneZAPTA.COM> wrote:

>Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
>built in
>sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
>parameters,
>status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the ONLY
>way
>to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.
>
>BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
>are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.
>
>(just kidding of course)

I'm reminded of an old paper in the _Journal of Irreproducible Results_ in which the author designs
a new mousetrap which offers far superior performance to existing mousetraps, at the expense of
having to change the specs for the mouse.

I think the toast problem is really a chemistry problem rather than a physics one.  You need to
develop self-toasting bread.  That way you achieve true object orientation; instead of applying a
procedure to the slice, you send the slice a "toast" message.

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