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'[PIC:] Programmer options for the new USB devices '
2005\09\17@161827 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Hi !.

I know about the IDC2 (and clones), but what other options are
there today for the new 18F USB devices ? Since they
uses a 32 bytes write block during programming, they don't
work with programmers that uses the 8 byte write block used
by many of the former 18F's.  That is, as far as I understand...

Jan-Erik,



2005\09\17@165957 by Denny Esterline

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I haven't actually tried it yet, but I here good things about WINPIC800.
Apparently it can make use of most of the "cheapy" programmers (JDM, Tait,
etc) and can program not only the USB 18F parts but also the 10F's and
DSPIC's

The home page isn't in English, but:
http://perso.wanadoo.es/siscobf/winpic800.htm

the software is multi-lingual (fourth menu list from the left)
http://perso.wanadoo.es/siscobf/descargas/WinPic800.zip

Good luck
-Denny


{Quote hidden}

2005\09\17@170616 by Robert Young

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>
>
> Hi !.
>
> I know about the IDC2 (and clones), but what other options
> are there today for the new 18F USB devices ? Since they uses
> a 32 bytes write block during programming, they don't work
> with programmers that uses the 8 byte write block used by
> many of the former 18F's.  That is, as far as I understand...
>
> Jan-Erik,
>
The ICD-U from CCS (http://www.ccsinfo.com/picc) $75

Rob

2005\09\17@185102 by olin piclist

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Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> I know about the IDC2 (and clones), but what other options are
> there today for the new 18F USB devices ? Since they
> uses a 32 bytes write block during programming, they don't
> work with programmers that uses the 8 byte write block used
> by many of the former 18F's.  That is, as far as I understand...

That's correct.  The 18F2550 and related use yet another programming
algorithm that is different from that used by the 18F252 and the old 18Fs.
Both my programmers (EasyProg, ProProg) support the new devices.  See
http://www.embedinc.com/products.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\09\17@233802 by Jim Robertson

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face




{Quote hidden}

Actually, it isn't as correct as you may first think.

The difference in write buffer size does NOT make these devices
incompatible with the older
18Fxxx algorithm with the smaller size write buffer. It just means that
there are three redundant
programming cycles/delays per buffer write. As long as the total address
space is Mod 32 then
all the addresses will be written to the very end.

In fact, when Microchip screwed-up the DS39622D prog spec (page 15) and
listed sixteen devices
with a 8-byte write buffer that in fact had larger sized buffers, it didn't
stop programmers like the
WARP-13 and Melab serial programmer from still programming them correctly.
(And I have just
altered the panel sizes back to 8 bytes and reconfirmed this.)

Of course, the programming times are much longer than they need be and
there are three other
issues that make these 18Fxxxx incompatible with the earlier 18Fxxx
programming algorithm
however all of these relate to the data EEPROM and config bits where the
panel mode does not
apply.

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS



2005\09\18@015415 by Xiaofan Chen

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pic18fusb.online.fr/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=ToolsAndProgrammers
has a good summary for the 18F USB supported programmer.

Winpic800 seems to be the best software for JDM type and other simple
programmers. The author also has a nice GTP USB Lite USB programmer
(to me it is like the USB counterpart of Wouter's Wisp628). I checked with
the author and Winpic800 is freeware but not open source. The source for
the firmware of GTP USB lite is also not open source. I am actually very
interested in the dsPIC support of the programmer.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=108574

Regards,
Xiaofan


On 9/18/05, Denny Esterline <spam_OUTfirmwareTakeThisOuTspamtds.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\09\18@093717 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
Hi Jim,

So in theory all those programmers supporting normal 8-word 18F chips
should be able to program the 18F USB parts, right? In paticular, Wisp628
will be able to program 18F USB parts. Is this correct?

This is similar to PICkit 1/2 of some newer 16F parts which support
1-word, 4-word and 8-word programming. Pickit 1/2 only supports
1-word and 4-word programming.

Regards,
Xiaofan

On 9/18/05, Jim Robertson <.....jimplKILLspamspam@spam@newfoundelectronics.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\09\18@101825 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Olin Lathrop wrote :

> Both my programmers (EasyProg, ProProg) support the new devices.
> See http://www.embedinc.com/products.

Oh well, how on earth could I miss *that* ?? ;-)

So, yet another reason to fire up my EasyProg then... :-)

Best Regards,
Jan-Erik.



2005\09\18@101857 by Rob Hamerling

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face


Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> So in theory all those programmers supporting normal 8-word 18F chips
> should be able to program the 18F USB parts, right? In paticular, Wisp628
> will be able to program 18F USB parts. Is this correct?

No! The chip/bulk erase algorithm is different, so it is impossible with
(unmodified firmware of) Wisp628 to erase the chip. Depending on the
settings of the config bits this could make re-programming impossible.

I'm currently wresting with a 18F2480. The write seems to work, but
verify fails. Reading back gives differences. Some config bits are
different (CPD and WRTD), the first 2K bytes of programm memory read
back as all 0x00 and most ID bytes are 0xFF.

Regards, Rob

--
Rob Hamerling, Vianen, NL phone +31-347-322822
homepage: http://www.robh.nl/

2005\09\18@141240 by olin piclist

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> So in theory all those programmers supporting normal 8-word 18F chips
> should be able to program the 18F USB parts, right?

Not necessarily.  The newer chips don't support multiple panel simultaneous
writes, although to be fair most programmers didn't make use of this awkward
feature in the old chips.  I guess it's possible that programming code that
writes to program memory of the old chips still works on the new ones even
though it's not optimal.  But there are other difference.  Certainly the
programming software must be aware of the new chip IDs, the size of program
memory and data EEPROM, and which config bits are valid.  The bulk erase
configurations are also different as shown in table 3-1 of the programming
specs.

I remember that these chips took some work to implement in the EasyProg and
ProProg.  I had to add new commands to the programming protocol and create
new write algorithms, plus a much more complicated host routine to deal with
the variable write buffer sizes properly.  Maybe things would have largely
worked with the old algorithm, although I never tried it because I wanted my
implementations to be reasonable efficient.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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