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'[PIC:] PIC10F article - also S5400 roll yer own u'
2004\06\07@085643 by Russell McMahon

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PIC10F article

       http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=21401355

   6 pin, 4 I/O PIC - too small to see :-)


also S5400 roll yer own uP - non PIC.
300 MHz 32 / 64 bit with user modifiable instruction set.
Define instructions in the compiler and download to the uP.
:-)

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2004\06\07@105656 by Sergio Masci

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Russell McMahon wrote:

> also S5400 roll yer own uP - non PIC.
> 300 MHz 32 / 64 bit with user modifiable instruction set.
> Define instructions in the compiler and download to the uP.
> :-)

And for the assembler-phile, you need an assembler that will be just as
flexible. xcasm is a meta-assembler that will let you define your own
instructions, addressing modes, and even instruction syntax.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2004\06\07@123223 by Charles Craft

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It's a 1 MIP chip, right?

<snip>
"Not so many years ago DEC's VAX 11/780 was reckoned the first computer to execute 1 million instructions per second. Now a 4MIPS microcontroller costs less than a cup of coffee and is so small you might accidentally inhale it. "
<snip>

{Original Message removed}

2004\06\07@134739 by Dave Tweed

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Charles Craft <spam_OUTchuckseaTakeThisOuTspamMINDSPRING.COM> wrote:
> Jim Turley wrote:
> > <snip>
> > "Not so many years ago DEC's VAX 11/780 was reckoned the first
> > computer to execute 1 million instructions per second. Now a 4MIPS
> > microcontroller costs less than a cup of coffee and is so small you
> > might accidentally inhale it. "
> > <snip>
>
> It's a 1 MIP chip, right?

To be painfully accurate, it's a 1 MIPS chip. ;-)

It wouldn't be so bad if Jim hadn't repeated the mistake several times
throughout the article. He's quite a character, and often plays fast and
loose with the details in order to make some point or another in the most
dramatic way possible.

-- Dave Tweed

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2004\06\07@135814 by Charles Craft

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Yeah, but has a MIP morphed from a unit of measure (mips) to being a thingie/doohickie (MIP)?
%-p


{Original Message removed}

2004\06\07@154337 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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And besides, AFAIK, the VAX 11/780 was used as the reference
for 1 VUPS ("Vax Units of Processing Speed" or something like that).

Now 1 VUPS was/is *aprox* 1 MIPS,
but the 11/780 was *exactly* 1 VUPS (since that was the definition...)

Not that it matters much, but....  :-)

Jan-Erik.

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2004\06\07@160833 by Igor Pokorny

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I wouldn't like to go deep back to future... Does somebody remember
LGP30?  1 Kbyte magnetic drum, about 60 lamps, punched tape input,
typewriter and oscilo as an output. I learnt it when I was 15 :-))).
Igor
{Original Message removed}

2004\06\07@171231 by William Chops Westfield

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On Monday, Jun 7, 2004, at 09:33 US/Pacific, Charles Craft wrote:
> It's a 1 MIP chip, right?
Right.
>
> <snip>
> "Not so many years ago DEC's VAX 11/780 was reckoned the first
> computer to execute 1 million instructions per second.

Not very likely.  DEC was (in)famous for declaring the vax a "1 mips"
computer, despite assorted evidence to the contrary, and of course the
extreme ambiguity of trying to measure computer performance based on
the instruction cycle time.  Thereafter, assorted somewhat standardized
benchmarks were often presented in terms of "Vax MIPs"; if you ran the
benchmark 3 times as fast as a vax, your computer was said to be
capable of "4 vax mips."  In any case, the vax was by no means the
fastest computer available in its day (although it possibly hit new
price/performance ratios...)

BillW

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2004\06\07@171857 by Charles Craft

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I guess now that processors are chips instead of boards there isn't any microcode firmware.
It's all hardwired logic etched/plated into the silicon.

Rumor was that a VAX 11/750 was a VAX 11/780 with NOPs in the microcode. :-)


{Original Message removed}

2004\06\07@175449 by James Newton, Host

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Please change the topic tag when the topic flies off into never-never land.

P.S. Yes I know I'm posting this with a [PIC:] tag... How else would the
people who subscribe only to PIC see it?
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> {Original Message removed}

2004\06\07@181318 by William Chops Westfield

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On Monday, Jun 7, 2004, at 14:18 US/Pacific, Charles Craft wrote:

>
> I guess now that processors are chips instead of boards there isn't
> any microcode firmware.  It's all hardwired logic etched/plated into
> the silicon.
>
The vax postdated a lot of microprocessors, and a lot of micros had
microcode for quite some time.  The well-respected 68000 had both micro
and nanocode, IIRC.  Things based on bitslice components (with explicit
user-provided microcode) survived into the 90s, at which point they
started calling them "VLIW" and "reconfigurable core" machines instead.
Things like the motorola QUICC chips have "microcode" for their
auxilliary processors (comm, timer, etc.)

BillW

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2004\06\07@213450 by Russell McMahon

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> > > "Not so many years ago DEC's VAX 11/780 was reckoned the first
> > > computer to execute 1 million instructions per second. Now a 4MIPS
> > > microcontroller costs less than a cup of coffee and is so small you
> > > might accidentally inhale it. "

BUT, and it's a VERY big BUT, a VAX MIPS and a PIC MIPS are very different.
Not only is it a matter of bandwidth but addressing range and what data can
be accessed and written per instruction. If you use a processor independent
benchmark (Whetstones or whatever) you'd get a far far different story, and
even that doesn't tell you about how much you can usefully do with a
processor. I think an 11/780 will still have more "real" power than any PIC
for a while yet. But by all means cite examples to prove me wrong if I am.


       RM

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2004\06\11@214357 by hilip Stortz

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really?  what i've always wanted to see is a characatron, i've heard of
them and seen a couple of webpages talk about them, but no pictures (a
characatron was a crt which deflected the beam through a metal mask with
the character set and then deflected it again onto the part of the
screen where that character belonged!  painful and amazing use of
technology!).  i just love technology pushed to the limits, wish i still
had my hp programmable calculator from '69!

Igor Pokorny wrote:
>
> I wouldn't like to go deep back to future... Does somebody remember
> LGP30?  1 Kbyte magnetic drum, about 60 lamps, punched tape input,
> typewriter and oscilo as an output. I learnt it when I was 15 :-))).
> Igor
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2004\06\11@214811 by hilip Stortz

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and the 68k chip was re-microcoded to become the "micro ibm 360" for ibm
(no doubt at great profit!), i.e. a micro that ran the instruction set
of the old ibm 360, which i briefly used myself in high school via
punched cards.

William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\06\16@105623 by Alan B. Pearce

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>really?  what i've always wanted to see is a characatron, i've heard of
>them and seen a couple of webpages talk about them, but no pictures (a
>characatron was a crt which deflected the beam through a metal mask with
>the character set and then deflected it again onto the part of the
>screen where that character belonged!  painful and amazing use of
>technology!).


I used to service microfiche printers that used these. The characters formed
were OCR2 font or very close IIRC. The microfiche printers were made by
Datagraphix (now Anacomp) from San Diego.

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