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'[PIC:] New to Pics and PICList...Advice Please'
2004\08\31@201042 by Chris Bond

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Hi. I am new to this list. I am experienced with assembly and using chips
such as the 8085 and Motorola 68000 and a recent graduate of electronic
engineering. I have been reading my butt off on the topic of PICS and have a
programmer and MPLAB and software for simulation.  My question is this: For
the wide range of PICmicro's I might work with, what would anyone suggest
for a good component and tool base to begin working with (crystals,
caps..and such.)

Thanks for any help.

~Chris

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2004\08\31@211111 by Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap

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Dear Chris,

Well, looks like you got everything you need there.. A good entry level PIC to
try would be the 16F88 or even the 16F628.. Do not bother with the 16F84 as
these other chips are much better, and most code is compatible..

You do not need crystals/caps with these chips are they're equipped with
internal oscillators.. You just need to configure it when you program your
chip.. Anything else you need would depend on your application..

On Wednesday 01 September 2004 08:10, Chris Bond wrote:
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- --
with metta,
Shawn Tan

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2004\08\31@212355 by Jinx

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As this topic comes up periodically, could we make a collective
effort to update this page to include more recent developments

http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist/begin.htm

and maybe also include associated components and tools (both
h/w-s/w and workbench/workshop)

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'[PIC:] New to Pics and PICList...Advice Please'
2004\09\01@082447 by olin_piclist
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Chris Bond wrote:
> Hi. I am new to this list. I am experienced with assembly and using
> chips such as the 8085 and Motorola 68000 and a recent graduate of
> electronic engineering. I have been reading my butt off on the topic
> of PICS and have a programmer and MPLAB and software for simulation.
> My question is this: For the wide range of PICmicro's I might work
> with, what would anyone suggest for a good component and tool base to
> begin working with (crystals, caps..and such.)

It sounds like you'll be doing electronics for a living.  You might as well
start collecting generally useful parts.  Unfortunately, the list of those
never ends.

At the very least, get the full assortment of 5% resistors and reasonable
range of capacitors.  Get ceramic from 22pf up to 1uF, then electrolytics up
to 1mF.  I use 2N4401 and 2N4403 as my generic small signal bipolar
transistors.  Get some 7805 5v regulators and LM324 opamps.  Opamps come in
many flavors for a reason, and you will collect more over time.

You'll always find some parts you don't already have every project you do.
Most of the time it makes sense to buy a few extra.  This gets you to a
price break and now you've got one more component in stock.

As for PICs, consider the 18F series the place to start unless you're doing
a high volume product or have special needs like extra small footprint.  I
consider the 18F252 the most generic starter PIC.  It's a full featured part
in a 28 pin package.  The same thing in 40 pins is the 18F452.  For 18 pins,
use the 18F1320.

If you really need smaller, then you have to go to a different family.  The
12F629 and 12F675 are really 16 family parts in an 8 pin package.  For ultra
small, the new 10F parts come in a tiny SOT-23 6 pin package, but that is
yet again another processor core, although the 12 and 14 bit cores aren't
that different.  The details of the 3Fxxx 3-pin parts in TO-92 package (Vdd,
Vss, MCLR) are still sketchy.


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(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
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2004\09\01@093949 by Russell McMahon

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> Get some 7805 5v regulators and LM324 opamps.

Throw in some LM317's (or standardise on them) so you can always get any
positive voltage you need.

Plus consider some low dropout and/or low quiesecent current regulators for
battery operation. (LM2936 is all of these but dear for what it does). There
are many others.


       RM

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2004\09\01@095851 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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olin_piclist@embedinc.com wrote :

> The details of the 3Fxxx 3-pin parts in  TO-92 package
> (Vdd, Vss, MCLR) are still sketchy.

Hi !
Have I been missing some press release lately, or is the
new piclist server also filtering emoticons now ?

:-) :-)

Reagrds,
Jan-Erik.
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2004\09\01@101539 by hael Rigby-Jones

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu]
>On Behalf Of olin_piclistspamKILLspamembedinc.com
>Sent: 01 September 2004 13:25
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [PIC:] New to Pics and PICList...Advice Please

> The details of the 3Fxxx 3-pin parts in TO-92
>package (Vdd, Vss, MCLR) are still sketchy.

Aren't Dallas releasing a one wire micro to complement the rest of their
peripherals? ;o)

Mike

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2004\09\01@111248 by Lawrence Lile

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This sounds like the answer is the same as I asked when I said "what tools and stock parts will I need to set up a shop?"

There are two ways to approach this:

1. The measured, sane, and slow way:  Whenever you do a project, buy about 10 times as many parts as you think you need, especially if they are really cheap. You can't buy one resistor, you can buy 10 for 10 cents each, or 200 for $2.00.   Soon, you will realize you have a great stock of parts that precisely fit the types of projects you are doing.  Organize these parts in the most organized way you can - so that you can always find them.  

2. The fun way:  Blow about $300 at Mouser on their engineer's kits for leaded ceramic capacitors, stock 1/8 watt leaded resistors, stock leaded radial electrylytic capacitors, and a half dozen PICs.  

I try to keep the following items in stock at all times:

Regulators:  5 volt T0-92 and TO-220 LM7805's
Resistors:  1K 10K 100K 1/8 watt
Caps  .1 uF ceramic, .01 uF ceramic, 22 uF 35V electrolytic, 100 uF electrolytic
PICs - 16F877's, or as Olin suggested, skip the 16F generation and move into 18F's
Proto boards - Microengineering labs proto board for whatever PIC you are using (melbas.com)

Tools:
A scope is required.  Any scope is better than no scope, and scopes expand to fill the budget available.  If you have $50 you can get an old surplus analog scope from the 1960's that still works good. If you have $5000, you can get a nice new HP megazoom digital with 18 channels.

Decent soldering iron - skip Radio shack and plan to spend at least $50
All kinds of tiny screwdrivers, needlenose pliers, tweezers, hemostats, and so on.  You will never stop buying these, so get a few now, a few later as the need arises.

A decent voltmeter.  Plan to spend at least $50.

A variable power supply.  I usually build my own, you can spend as little or as much as you like on this.


-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\01@121722 by Dave VanHorn

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>
>1. The measured, sane, and slow way:  Whenever you do a project, buy about 10 times as many parts as you think you need, especially if they are really cheap. You can't buy one resistor, you can buy 10 for 10 cents each, or 200 for $2.00.   Soon, you will realize you have a great stock of parts that precisely fit the types of projects you are doing.  Organize these parts in the most organized way you can - so that you can always find them.

An extremely good idea!
I've done this in varying degrees over the years.
The drawer cabinets you find in the hardware stores work pretty well, as long as you secure them to the wall. I had a bad incident once with 14,000 resistors, when a shelf on those common "shelf brackets" fell, because the bracket twisted.  I had to employ a couple of kids for a couple of days sorting resistors!


>2. The fun way:  Blow about $300 at Mouser on their engineer's kits for leaded ceramic capacitors, stock 1/8 watt leaded resistors, stock leaded radial electrylytic capacitors, and a half dozen PICs.  

Pricey, but makes sense at times.

I also pick up inductors when I can get them cheap.
The cores can be characterized by stripping the existing windings off the bobbins, and winding a 10 or 100 turn reference winding, then measuring the inductance.
The bobbins and clips are easy to re-use, if you're careful.

For Rs and Cs, I go heavy on the binary values,  1k, 2.2k, 4.7, and stock a few of all 5%.  Radio shack has a large resistor kit that's a good start. I've used these in the field, when I'm away from my "wall-of-parts"

>Tools:
>A scope is required.  Any scope is better than no scope, and scopes expand to fill the budget available.  

:) Certainly true.  For slow signals (battery charging) there are meters with a PC interface that will plot graphs for you. Limited, but way better than nothing.
I'm very fond of the PMD-1208LS, a USB device that you can control from visual basic. analog inputs, analog outputs, digital inputs, and digital outputs.

>Decent soldering iron - skip Radio shack and plan to spend at least $50

Don't skimp here. A metcal SP-200 can be had on ebay for less than $200.
Amazingly good. Of course if you never have to use the junk, you won't appreciate how good the metcal is.


>A decent voltmeter.  Plan to spend at least $50.

Very handy to have capacitance, inductance, and temperature measurement.

>A variable power supply.  I usually build my own, you can spend as little or as much as you like on this.

Definitely.

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2004\09\01@123825 by Dwayne Reid

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At 06:10 PM 8/31/2004, Chris Bond wrote:
>Hi. I am new to this list. I am experienced with assembly and using chips
>such as the 8085 and Motorola 68000 and a recent graduate of electronic
>engineering. I have been reading my butt off on the topic of PICS and have a
>programmer and MPLAB and software for simulation.  My question is this: For
>the wide range of PICmicro's I might work with, what would anyone suggest
>for a good component and tool base to begin working with (crystals,
>caps..and such.)

If you want a low cost packaged starter kit, head over to your nearest
Microchip disti and ask about something called the "PICkit".  Its a low
cost programmer / development board that even has a tiny snap-off project
board that can be used by itself.  The dev board has some LEDs, a switch or
two and a pot and works with the 8 & 14 pin flash parts (comes with a 12f675).

Digikey stocks it, as does Arrow and Future.  Digikey part #
DV164101-ND  US $36.00

dwayne

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Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
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2004\09\01@125602 by olin_piclist

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Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>> The details of the 3Fxxx 3-pin parts in  TO-92 package
>> (Vdd, Vss, MCLR) are still sketchy.
>
> Have I been missing some press release lately, or is the
> new piclist server also filtering emoticons now ?

These new parts should be popular because they will be very cheap.  They can
run applications like Wouter's zero pin bootloader.  Their speed, program
memory, and data memory will all exceed the 10F parts.


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2004\09\01@132702 by Charles Craft

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speed.sii.co.jp/pub/compo/ic/en/param_chrt.jsp?subcatID=22
High Operating Voltage CMOS Voltage Regulator S-812C series

Someone on the list pointed me to the Seiko parts when I was looking for a lower cost LM2936.
I was able to order them from Mouser for about $.50 each.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/237.pdf


{Original Message removed}

2004\09\02@024305 by Wouter van Ooijen
2004\09\02@033805 by Engineering Info
2004\09\02@040522 by Russell McMahon
2004\09\02@073133 by olin_piclist
2004\09\02@082445 by M. Adam Davis
2004\09\02@102546 by Russell McMahon
2004\09\03@091602 by Peter L. Peres
2004\09\12@090143 by Howard Winter

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Charles,

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:22:26 -0400 (EDT), Charles Craft wrote:

> speed.sii.co.jp/pub/compo/ic/en/param_chrt.jsp?subcatID=22
> High Operating Voltage CMOS Voltage Regulator S-812C series
>
> Someone on the list pointed me to the Seiko parts when I was looking for a lower cost LM2936.
> I was able to order them from Mouser for about $.50 each.
> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/237.pdf

The 812 series certainly looks interesting, but it supplies 50mA only - do you happen to know if there is a
higher-current series that's otherwise similar?

Cheers,



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2004\09\12@091525 by Howard Winter

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On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:17:29 -0500, Dave VanHorn wrote:

>...<
> >A decent voltmeter.  Plan to spend at least $50.
>
> Very handy to have capacitance, inductance, and temperature measurement.

I'd say to look at the "Atlas" range of component analysers, from Peak Electronics here in England (
http:http://www.peakelec.co.uk )  I don't know what the prices will be like Stateside but here they are worth every
penny, IMHO!  

The "Atlas DCA" Semiconductor analyser, for example: connect the three leads to a 3-terminal device, press the
"Test" button and it comes back with the type of device, the main characteristics, and the pinout!  Works with
diodes, LEDs (including 2- and 3-lead bi-colour) and so on, as well.

The "Atlas LCR" (guess what that measures? :-) is similar but with only 2 leads, and will measure passive
components without needing to know what they are.  Excellent for those fiddly little ceramic caps with
unintelligible markings...

And they run on PICs!  :-)

No connection except as a satisfied customer.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


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