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'[PIC:] ICD-2 and 16F628A'
2003\12\31@180749 by Harold Hallikainen

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I am having a problem with the ICD-2 and a 16F628A. I've tried two
ICD-2s, and they both exhibit the same effect. The ICD-2s have worked well
on other chips. The ICD-2 is connected using USB, Win98SE, MPLAB 6.40. In
each case, I get

Connecting to MPLAB ICD 2
...Connected
Setting Vdd source to target
ICDWarn0020: Invalid target device id (expected=0x89, read=0x83)
...Reading ICD Product ID
Running ICD Self Test
...Passed
MPLAB ICD 2 Ready


There are switches to ground on RB6 and RB7, but both are open. There's a
10k from -MCLR to +5V. This does not exactly duplicate the -MCLR wiring of
a PIC demo board. Is it possible this difference on the -MCLR wiring would
cause the device id problem?

THANKS!!!

Harold


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2003\12\31@182619 by Dan Devine

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Check the crystal type....I've gotten that error before when it's
incorrect.  Also check the proper device is selected as well.

Both of these have caused me a few moments of serious soul searching
when connecting a new project and not getting a response.

DD

On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 15:06, Harold Hallikainen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\31@182828 by Charles Craft

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Were the ICD-2s working with another family (18f) of chips?

MPLAB updates the firmware in the ICD-2 based on the chip you're using it with.
Not at a machine where I can test to get menu picks right now.


{Original Message removed}

2003\12\31@193338 by Tom

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face
I can second Dan's suggestion, Harold.  The ICD-2 error messages are
cryptic at best and wrong at worst.

Although I have not yet tried a '628A device, I did have a problem once
when trying to work with an 18F452 in a PICDEM2 PLUS board in which the
oscillator was not functioning.

Hoping you get it fixed before the end of the year,
Tom Fool

At 03:26 PM 12/31/2003 -0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\31@200118 by Bob Axtell

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Hmmm. I didn't know that the 628A could be debugged with the ICD2; it
can be programmed, but NOT debugged. It simply doesn't have the internal
debugging hardware.

Can somebody verify this?

--Bob
Tom wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Tom wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\31@200739 by Denny Esterline

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According to the Microchip line card I have (2nd half '03), you are
correct, the 628A does not list ICD amont the features. Good catch, Bob.

-Denny

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\31@201605 by Denny Esterline

picon face
(typo)
According to the Microchip line card I have (2nd half '03), you are
correct, the 628A does not list ICD among the features. Good catch, Bob.

-Denny

>>
> > Hmmm. I didn't know that the 628A could be debugged with the ICD2; it
> > can be programmed, but NOT debugged. It simply doesn't have the
internal
> > debugging hardware.
> >
> > Can somebody verify this?
> >
> > --Bob
> > Tom wrote:
> > > I can second Dan's suggestion, Harold.  The ICD-2 error messages are
> > > cryptic at best and wrong at worst.
> > >
> > > Although I have not yet tried a '628A device, I did have a problem
once
> > > when trying to work with an 18F452 in a PICDEM2 PLUS board in which
the
{Quote hidden}

once
> > > when trying to work with an 18F452 in a PICDEM2 PLUS board in which
the
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\31@214109 by Vern Jones

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Hello Denny,

You have lost a few years...your date is set for 12/31/2000...Do you have a
y2k problem?

Vern

Denny Esterline wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC:] ICD-2 and 16F628A'
2004\01\01@020721 by Denny Esterline
picon face
Actually, yes. My computer can handle it fine but I have some software that
refuses to run unless I set my clock back, guess I forgot to set it forward
again.

-Denny


{Quote hidden}

Bob.
> >
> >  -Denny
> >
> > >>
> > > > Hmmm. I didn't know that the 628A could be debugged with the ICD2;
it
> > > > can be programmed, but NOT debugged. It simply doesn't have the
> > internal
> > > > debugging hardware.
> > > >
> > > > Can somebody verify this?
> > > >
> > > > --Bob
> > > > Tom wrote:
> > > > > I can second Dan's suggestion, Harold.  The ICD-2 error messages
are
> > > > > cryptic at best and wrong at worst.
> > > > >
> > > > > Although I have not yet tried a '628A device, I did have a
problem
> > once
> > > > > when trying to work with an 18F452 in a PICDEM2 PLUS board in
which
{Quote hidden}

searching
> > > > >>when connecting a new project and not getting a response.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>DD
> > > > >>
> > > > >>On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 15:06, Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> I am having a problem with the ICD-2 and a 16F628A. I've tried
two
{Quote hidden}

are
> > > > > cryptic at best and wrong at worst.
> > > > >
> > > > > Although I have not yet tried a '628A device, I did have a
problem
> > once
> > > > > when trying to work with an 18F452 in a PICDEM2 PLUS board in
which
{Quote hidden}

searching
> > > > >>when connecting a new project and not getting a response.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>DD
> > > > >>
> > > > >>On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 15:06, Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> I am having a problem with the ICD-2 and a 16F628A. I've tried
two
{Quote hidden}

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2004\01\01@052019 by Vern Jones

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I see, just a piece of software with a y2k problem. Happy New Year.

Vern

Denny Esterline wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\01\01@094322 by Olin Lathrop

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> ICDWarn0020: Invalid target device id (expected=0x89, read=0x83)

There is some confusion about the device IDs of these chips.  The spec says
they should be 083h, but I have some notes that say it might be different,
or maybe was different on engineering samples.

My notes also say this information came from Wouter, so maybe he can shed
more light on this.


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2004\01\01@111225 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> > ICDWarn0020: Invalid target device id (expected=0x89, read=0x83)
>
> There is some confusion about the device IDs of these chips.
> The spec says
> they should be 083h, but I have some notes that say it might
> be different,
> or maybe was different on engineering samples.
>
> My notes also say this information came from Wouter, so maybe
> he can shed
> more light on this.

My light: the actual ID values for the 16F627 and 16F628 are 0x1040 and
0x07C0, which is different from the values shown in the (initial?)
programming specifications. I have not seen any discrepancies for the
corresponding -A chips.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\01\01@112507 by ed_b_pes

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I had trouble with my ICD2 running USB on XP Pro and an 'F877.  What I found
was that the ICD was very susceptible to noise (turn off the electrostatic
air cleaner) so I replaced the cable with a high dollar USB2 cable (needed
longer one anyway) and mounted the test board on a grounded aluminum plate.
Given the problems Microchip sent a second ICD2 and generally the problem is
solved, although I still get random nonsensical error messages.

I'm trying out the LTC1799 oscillator to replace the crystal and to give a
little flexibility on the operating frequency.  The part only connects to
the CLKIN pin and I'm operating between 15 and 20MHz with the configuration
bit set to HS.  It seems stable when viewed on a scope, but probe
capacitance could mask some clock jitter.    Might the ICD be more
susceptible to a system with jitter?  Is there any spec on clock jitter?
Some EMC reduction techniques intentionally use clock jitter to smear the
spectrum.  Wonder how an emulator would handle that ... any thoughts or
suggestions?

Ed


On Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:26 PM Dan Devine wrote:

Check the crystal type....I've gotten that error before when it's
incorrect.  Also check the proper device is selected as well.

Both of these have caused me a few moments of serious soul searching
when connecting a new project and not getting a response.

DD

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2004\01\01@113128 by Larry Bradley

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Hey Wouter, that reminds me - the 18F1320 and the 16F628 both have an ID of
07C0. I pointed that out to you a while back, and you fixed XWISP or
WISP628 to handle the situation. How DID you handle it, in terms of
figuring out which chip is which? Could be useful info for others.

Larry

At 05:09 PM 1/1/2004 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Larry Bradley
Orleans (Ottawa), Ontario, CANADA

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2004\01\01@114412 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Hey Wouter, that reminds me - the 18F1320 and the 16F628 both
> have an ID of
> 07C0. I pointed that out to you a while back, and you fixed XWISP or
> WISP628 to handle the situation. How DID you handle it, in terms of
> figuring out which chip is which? Could be useful info for others.

The programming communication with an 18F chip is totally different from
that with an 12F / 16F chip, so I just use that additional 'bit' of
information. With an unknown chip the programmer has to try both
sequences anyway (or just one when a valid ID turns up).

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\01\01@135021 by Olin Lathrop

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Larry Bradley wrote:
> Hey Wouter, that reminds me - the 18F1320 and the 16F628 both have an
> ID of 07C0. I pointed that out to you a while back, and you fixed
> XWISP or WISP628 to handle the situation. How DID you handle it, in
> terms of figuring out which chip is which? Could be useful info for
> others.

I can't say what Wouter did, but my programmer detects the 14 bit versus 16
bit ID and has a separate namespace for IDs of each type.

I'd like to say this was due to forethought, but I got caught by this when
implementing the 18F1320.  Since the 14 bit ID contains 5 revision bits and
9 PIC type bits, I figured Microchip would keep away from IDs 0-511 for the
other PIC families.  Nope.


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2004\01\01@221254 by Harold Hallikainen

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Thanks for all the comments! This ap is running with the LP oscillator
with a 32 kHz crystal. I'll mess with it some more on Monday. Thanks for
all the ideas!

Harold

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