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'[PIC:] Greetings from Masters 2004'
2004\07\21@185045 by Herbert Graf

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Hello all, greetings from the Masters conference in VERY hot Phoenix. Up
until now I've never had to set the air conditioning in a car to
absolute max for a prolonged period of time...

Frontier airlines lost my bag, that sucks...

Anyways, attended two courses so far. The first was about ground noise
and stuff. Sounded interesting when I choose it, but it seemed to be a
little to basic for my taste.

The second class was about MChip's soon to come full speed USB2.0 18F
chips. They sound VERY sweet, the limitations of the 16F USB chip are
completely gone. Can't wait to see them. Even better, MChip will be
releasing all source for implementing a mass storage device (using flash
like SD and CF) with full FAT support, an HID device, and even better,
full RS232 emulation! The whole room went "wow" when he plugged the demo
board in and boom, a new COM port! :)

Anyways, having fun. TTYL

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2004\07\21@231812 by Ken Pergola

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Herbert Graf wrote:

> Hello all, greetings from the Masters conference in VERY hot Phoenix...

Hi Herbert,

Thank you kindly for the update -- I enjoyed reading your comments regarding
the conference. Maybe this will thread will turn into something like CNN's
"The Whip" with Aaron Brown. :)

Best regards and keep having fun,

Ken Pergola

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2004\07\22@125952 by David Minkler

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Herbert Graf wrote:

>The second class was about MChip's soon to come full speed USB2.0 18F
>chips. They sound VERY sweet, the limitations of the 16F USB chip are
>completely gone. Can't wait to see them. Even better, MChip will be
>releasing all source for implementing a mass storage device (using flash
>like SD and CF) with full FAT support, an HID device, and even better,
>full RS232 emulation! The whole room went "wow" when he plugged the demo
>board in and boom, a new COM port! :)
>
Tease

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2004\07\22@141053 by Lawrence Lile

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Arrgh, I am missing ANOTHER master's conference.  


-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

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2004\07\22@141300 by David VanHorn

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At 01:07 PM 7/22/2004 -0500, Lawrence Lile wrote:

>Arrgh, I am missing ANOTHER master's conference.

It's a pity that there's no corresponding AVR event..

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2004\07\22@142304 by Charles Craft

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Does this mean you're not in the toaster business now? Or just a second hat you wear?

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Lile <spam_OUTllileTakeThisOuTspamPROJSOLCO.COM>
Sent: Jul 22, 2004 2:07 PM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC:] Greetings from Masters 2004

Arrgh, I am missing ANOTHER master's conference.



-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

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2004\07\22@161052 by James Newton, Host

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Ok, I vote for Dave's house... Ahhh... Next week? Ok Dave?

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> {Original Message removed}

2004\07\22@161641 by David VanHorn

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At 01:07 PM 7/22/2004 -0700, James Newton, Host wrote:

>Ok, I vote for Dave's house... Ahhh... Next week? Ok Dave?

I may have to charge exorbitant fees to limit attendance to what I can handle comfortably.. Would $10k be too much? Remember, that's your own sofa in the living room (shared during the day), and shared use of the bathroom for a whole week! :)

You get a really cute 2-yr old as your personal assistant as well.

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2004\07\22@162848 by Lawrence Lile

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It is true, I am done with toasters.
I have taken a position as Manager of Electrical Engineering at Project
Solutions Companies.  Currently the firm does mostly building systems
design, which I did in an earlier life.  I am also trying to expand the
"sparky department" into electronics, industrial and scientific control
systems.  I've been contacting all my old moonlighting contacts trying
to beat the bushes for embedded work.

-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com
573-443-7100 ext 221

> {Original Message removed}

2004\07\22@171209 by Marcel Duchamp

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At 01:25 PM 7/22/04, you wrote:
>It is true, I am done with toasters.
>
>I have taken a position as Manager of Electrical Engineering at Project
>Solutions Companies.  Currently the firm does mostly building systems
>design, which I did in an earlier life.  I am also trying to expand the
>"sparky department" into electronics, industrial and scientific control
>systems.  I've been contacting all my old moonlighting contacts trying
>to beat the bushes for embedded work.
>-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.

When everyone knows you, work will find you.  When no one knows you, you
must find work.

In the small town in my area, an informal group was organized something
like 20 years ago call EMSLO. It stands for Electronic Manufacturers of San
Luis Obispo.  Each month, EMSLO meets at a different restaurant for
lunch.  There are no dues, no fees, no nothing.  Any company that does
manufacturing or supports manufacturing is welcome to send people.  So in
addition to companies making electronic products, there often is a member
from a local sheet metal fabrication house, a local printed circuit board
house and so on.

As a consultant, going to lunch costs an hour a month (plus lunch money).
It gets you face to face time with other engineering managers from other
smallish companies who frequently have overflow work and you are there to
hear about it.  They get a chance to see you from month to month and this
helps to break the ice.  People discuss *anything* they want and often
bring small samples of products or brochures to show off what they do.

If I had to start over in a town without this sort of organization, I would
start one.  Make a list, send out faxes, emails or direct phone calls to
everyone that might be interested and organize it.  Make it happen.  Fellow
geeks like to get together for stuff like this and it's not hard to start
the thing off.  People from the top to the bottom are welcome.  The '90's
word for this was networking. It still works.

Side benefits might include finding out which companies pay fast, which
ones pay slow, which ones are the crazies to stay away from, etc.  If you
are struggling to drum up work consider giving this a try.

MD

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2004\07\22@173117 by David VanHorn

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>
>When everyone knows you, work will find you.  When no one knows you, you
>must find work.

How true!


>Side benefits might include finding out which companies pay fast, which
>ones pay slow, which ones are the crazies to stay away from, etc.  If you
>are struggling to drum up work consider giving this a try.

This sounds like an evil plan. Maybe a suitably evil plan.
It remains to be seen though, out here in corn country, wether I'll be eating alone or not..


--
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If we can put a man on the moon, then why can't we put a man on the moon?

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2004\07\22@212447 by picaccount

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Hey, I'm here too!
       I'm having a blast!  I'm finally figuring out some of the issues
that I've been having with the dspic series.  These things are even more
cool than I knew about before.  Microchip went all out this year.  The
resort they are holding this in is pretty ritzy.  The food is a little rich
--(anything better than a hotdog is new territory for me).  They shuffled
out just about every microchip engineer they could let out for this thing.
It's cool to talk to the guys that actually designed this stuff.  Anyway, it
was definitely worth the 14 hr drive for me to get here!  I drove through
las vegas so it's turning into a bit of a vacation too.  (the 111 F heat is
a little stifling though.)  Anyway, off to the robotics competition.  Maybe
I'll see you somewhere Herbert!
-Dal
{Original Message removed}

2004\07\22@213941 by Charles Craft

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I drove it from Minneapolis last year. Big chunk of the country in the middle that I hadn't seen before.
Also wanted to visit 4 corners.  3 days down across SD, NE, KS, CO and AZ. Picked up NM and UT at 4 corners. :-)
3 days on the way back across AZ, NM (VLA in Socorro), TX, OK, KS (saw end of ATSF), MO and IA.
Plus all the fun at the Masters in the middle. Hell of a trip!

{Original Message removed}

2004\07\23@003354 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 21:25, picaccount wrote:
> Hey, I'm here too!
>         I'm having a blast!  I'm finally figuring out some of the issues
> that I've been having with the dspic series.  These things are even more
> cool than I knew about before.

       Haven't yet had a class on the dsPICs, that's tomorrow for me. My
classes today weren't as great as yesterday, although the signal
conditioning class was a nice surprise. No new scopes though for the
list... :(

>  Microchip went all out this year.  The
> resort they are holding this in is pretty ritzy.

       Ya, it's quite nice. Of course, the last Hotel I was in was about 14
years ago so I don't really have much to base opinion on.

       A colleague of mine who travels allot said he was jealous when he found
our where it was being held...

> The food is a little rich
> --(anything better than a hotdog is new territory for me).

       Hehe, ya, the food is quite good, and maybe even a little fancy for me.
The steak was good.

> They shuffled
> out just about every microchip engineer they could let out for this thing.
> It's cool to talk to the guys that actually designed this stuff.

       Yes, it's very neat to have a class taught by the person who's app note
you've been reading for the past month. The other thing I like is most
courses I've been too have been taught by the people who actually
developed the stuff they're talking about.

> Anyway, it
> was definitely worth the 14 hr drive for me to get here!  I drove through
> las vegas so it's turning into a bit of a vacation too.

       Hehe, well, aside from a lost bag (which did arrive last night) the
trip has been great, and very rewarding.

       Visited Fry's Electronics today (was recommended by someone to check
out). Very cool place, it's like a bunch of stores in Canada all put
together. That said I was disappointed by the prices down here, they are
actually MORE expensive in many cases then in Canada. Strange, I
expected things to be a little cheaper in the States.

> (the 111 F heat is
> a little stifling though.)  Anyway, off to the robotics competition.  Maybe
> I'll see you somewhere Herbert!
> -Dal

       You know, it was about 112 yesterday, and that was HOT to me. But today
it was 111, and it just didn't feel as hot anymore. I think I'm starting
to get used to the heat! That's REALLY gonna screw me when I return to
Toronto and it's like 65... :) TTYL

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2004\07\25@025647 by dal

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Yep, it's winding up for me now...  I'm back in vegas now.  Did a different
route coming back..  Saw a bit more desert.  Still was 115F, good thing the
truck has good AC.  Fun trip for me, although mine isn't quite as varied a
trip as yours.  Anyway, the Masters was a success.  I need to go next year!

{Original Message removed}

2004\07\26@043636 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Visited Fry's Electronics today (was recommended by someone
>to check out). Very cool place, it's like a bunch of stores
>in Canada all put together. That said I was disappointed by
>the prices down here, they are actually MORE expensive in
>many cases then in Canada. Strange, I expected things to be
>a little cheaper in the States.

Sure it is not a case of hearing you lot were coming to town ??

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2004\07\26@121939 by Herbert Graf

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On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 04:38, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> >Visited Fry's Electronics today (was recommended by someone
> >to check out). Very cool place, it's like a bunch of stores
> >in Canada all put together. That said I was disappointed by
> >the prices down here, they are actually MORE expensive in
> >many cases then in Canada. Strange, I expected things to be
> >a little cheaper in the States.
>
> Sure it is not a case of hearing you lot were coming to town ??

       Hehe, you know, perhaps that wasn't far from the truth! MChip even
scheduled a shuttle bus on two days to take people to Fry's and back!
Since I had a rental I just drove over there (about 12 miles). TTYL

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2004\07\26@122702 by Herbert Graf

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On Sun, 2004-07-25 at 02:56, dal wrote:
> Yep, it's winding up for me now...  I'm back in vegas now.  Did a different
> route coming back..  Saw a bit more desert.  Still was 115F, good thing the
> truck has good AC.  Fun trip for me, although mine isn't quite as varied a
> trip as yours.  Anyway, the Masters was a success.  I need to go next year!

       Yes, for my first Master's it was definitely fun. While some of the
courses were sub par most were great, I learned alot about DSP and some
nitty gritty about the dsPICs.

       I'm also back now, arrived around 8:30 EDT last night. All in all a
great trip, the hotel was beautiful, the weather was amazing, the
conference itself was good, the food was good, and I even got a trip to
the grand canyon in! :)

       Also learned on the way back that a hand held GPS unit can indeed get a
fix from inside a A319 window at 39000 feet... the lady beside me was
impressed when I opened MS streets and trips on my laptop and showed her
exactly where we were, how fast we were going and at what altitude! :)
(I'm such a geek...) I even recorded some of the fixes so I can play
back my ascent, decent and landing on my home computer.

       Met some really nice people, including the creator of oopic, boy did he
have fascinating stories to tell about how the name oopic "evolved", and
about some of his prior jobs (he worked at NASA!!!).

       Anyways, no idea if I'll be going next year, but it sure was worth it
this time around. TTYL

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2004\07\26@200212 by Martin Klingensmith

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Herbert Graf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I thought GPS was locked out faster than 100 mph?
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2004\07\26@201056 by Robert B.

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> I thought GPS was locked out faster than 100 mph?
> --
> Martin Klingensmith

Certainly not true, I've used one to clock upwards of 100mph, and pilots use
it to do so all the time.  Plus it doesn't make sense, since GPS only senses
position, then an onboard computer derives the velocity vector.  Do you have
a source on this?

Robert B.

{Original Message removed}

2004\07\26@211339 by Rich Mulvey

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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Robert B. wrote:

> > I thought GPS was locked out faster than 100 mph?
> > --
> > Martin Klingensmith
>
> Certainly not true, I've used one to clock upwards of 100mph, and pilots use
> it to do so all the time.  Plus it doesn't make sense, since GPS only senses
> position, then an onboard computer derives the velocity vector.  Do you have
> a source on this?


  Not "certainly", by any means.  :-)

  Garmin, for example, used to limit their GPS's to a maximum usable
speed of 99MPH.  The GPS45 model, for example.  Conventional wisdom was
that they didn't want their "consumer" GPS models to cut into their
aviation GPS sales.

  They haven't done that for quite a few years now, though.

- Rich

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2004\07\26@212806 by Jake Anderson

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the gps modules themselves are limited (internally) to around 100kft 1000mph
and 10G
by the us government.
basically they dont want people making guided missiles too easily.
you can buy unrestricted GPS units, 10hz update rate (or higher) and no
limits (IE they are used on satellites in LEO)

if you want to get funky you can get radio carrier based ones that can give
you khz update rates with centimeter accuracy (provided you have a base
station at a fixed location to compare with)


> {Original Message removed}

2004\07\26@214258 by Charles Linquist

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I have used my handheld Garmin GPSIII on an airplane.  It had no problem
whatsoever at 546 mph. The self-contained antenna works just fine as long as
it is within about 2' of a window.
It was neat when the pilot said we were "passing through" 35,000 feet, and I
knew we were actually at 36,432 feet!


{Original Message removed}

2004\07\26@220555 by Russell McMahon

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> the gps modules themselves are limited (internally) to around 100kft
1000mph
> and 10G by the us government.
> basically they dont want people making guided missiles too easily.
> you can buy unrestricted GPS units, 10hz update rate (or higher) and no
> limits (IE they are used on satellites in LEO)

For restricted units the limits are ANDed - you can be high and slow and
thereby detect rocket apogee.
Ok for near vertical ballistic launch but not for path tracking.
Surprisingly, the main requirement to obtain unrestricted units seems to be
the ability to pay the purchase price. They are generally higher spec (eg 10
Hz or faster update). I know of one person who bought one with no great
difficulty.



       RM

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2004\07\26@224616 by Robert Ussery

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>From: pic microcontroller discussion list [EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]
>On Behalf Of Robert B.


>Certainly not true, I've used one to clock upwards of 100mph, and pilots
>use
>it to do so all the time.  Plus it doesn't make sense, since GPS only
>senses
>position, then an onboard computer derives the velocity vector.  Do you
>have
>a source on this?
>
>Robert B.


There actually is a government-imposed limit, to keep people from using
civilian GPS to guide their home-built ICBMs or something. It's super-high
limit though, and IIRC, it only applies when a speed and altitude limit are
simultaneously exceeded.


TTYL

- Robert

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2004\07\26@224617 by Robert Ussery

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>I thought GPS was locked out faster than 100 mph?

Nope, it's actually something like 999mph, and, IIRC, only when exceeding
18,000'. I fly gliders with a handheld GPS, and regularly exceed 100mph
(once, even 180, but that's a different story - 15,000' going downwind at
115 kts in a 40 mph wind)

I regularly use my handheld when I'm on airliners to supplement the in-seat
displays that the airlines are adopting. I've had mine at >36,000' and
>500mph.


TTYL!

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2004\07\26@225654 by Robert B.

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I'm skeptical still.  So I couldn't pilot an ICBM unless it was below 18kft
and subsonic.  Hmm..  sounds pretty difficult.  Good thing it doesn't
inhibit my creation of cruise-missiles at least ;).  Furthermore, I was
under the impression that the GPS satellites were a passive broadcast
system, which would make it very difficult to do any broad limiting like
that.  Which is why they turned the accuracy down for so long...

It would be way too easy to get around those limitations anyhow, even if
such a limit does exist.  Launch an ICBM with inertial navigation to get it
in the ball park, slow it down and bring it lower for precise... wait who's
that at the door...

'click'



{Original Message removed}

2004\07\27@044720 by Nate Duehr

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On Jul 26, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Herbert Graf wrote:
>         Also learned on the way back that a hand held GPS unit can
> indeed get a
> fix from inside a A319 window at 39000 feet... the lady beside me was
> impressed when I opened MS streets and trips on my laptop and showed
> her
> exactly where we were, how fast we were going and at what altitude! :)
> (I'm such a geek...) I even recorded some of the fixes so I can play
> back my ascent, decent and landing on my home computer.

So much for turning off all electronic devices when the cabin crew and
flight crew requested it, eh?

At the (great) risk of starting up a thread I don't want to start, I'll
just say -- perhaps you should take the people who are entrusted with
your safety more seriously.  (And if the thread continues, PLEASE move
it to [OT:]!)

Of course, if you followed the rules and your comment about mapping the
"landing" really means that your fixes terminate about 20-30 miles from
the airport, long before you passed through 10,000' MSL, then my
apologies.

I have mixed feelings about this.  As an electronics hobbyist I have
read a lot on the topic and realize that there's very little your
portable GPS and laptop could do to an A-319, which has quite a bit of
fiber in the fly-by-wire systems, and lots of modern-day shielding
techniques.

On the other hand, as both a pilot and an Amateur Radio operator who's
done VHF/UHF direction finding and Aircraft Emergency Locator Beacon
searches for over a decade, I've seen some VERY strange RF caused by
"consumer grade" electronics devices doing things they "weren't
supposed to do".

Extra unaccounted-for RF during an approach and landing in a 200
mile-per-hour hollow aluminum and kevlar tube just doesn't seem like
such a good idea to me.

If you were a "good boy" and turned your toys off when you were asked,
ignore me... but for those that leave them on -- think about it and
turn them off next time, okey-dokey?

Most PC's and hand-held GPS receivers spew all sorts of lovely crap
when viewed with a spectrum analyzer.  The only thing protecting the
aircraft's electronic bits from your "transmitters" is a thin piece of
plastic and the inverse-square law.

Just how far ARE you sitting from the one avionics box the pilot needs
to make a successful landing?  Can you see the INOP flag from your seat
in 23B?  If not... turn off the gadgets.

--
Nate Duehr, natespamspam_OUTnatetech.com

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2004\07\27@045721 by Nate Duehr

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On Jul 26, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Charles Linquist wrote:

> I have used my handheld Garmin GPSIII on an airplane.  It had no
> problem
> whatsoever at 546 mph. The self-contained antenna works just fine as
> long as
> it is within about 2' of a window.
> It was neat when the pilot said we were "passing through" 35,000 feet,
> and I
> knew we were actually at 36,432 feet!

You were at 35,000' pressure altitude, and 36,432 above the "geode".

It's best you fly at the assigned pressure altitude adjusted for local
atmospheric pressure every couple hundred miles or so, or you'll
quickly find that other aircraft in your lap at 600 kt closure rates!

A quick google turned up this old gem which is short but succinct...
GPS altitude isn't very accurate.

http://gpsinformation.net/main/altitude.htm

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2004\07\27@051626 by Lee Jones

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>> I have used my handheld Garmin GPSIII on an airplane.  It had no
>> problem> whatsoever at 546 mph. The self-contained antenna works
>> just fine as long as it is within about 2' of a window.  It was
>> neat when the pilot said we were "passing through" 35,000 feet,
>> and I knew we were actually at 36,432 feet!

> You were at 35,000' pressure altitude, and 36,432 above the "geode".
>
> It's best you fly at the assigned pressure altitude adjusted for local
> atmospheric pressure every couple hundred miles or so, or you'll
> quickly find that other aircraft in your lap at 600 kt closure rates!

The sensitive altimeter has local pressure set in the Kollsman
window when operating below 18,000 feet MSL.

At and above 18,000 feet MSL (flight level 180), you set the
altimeter to 29.92 inches of mercury (standard pressure) [in
the US, see FAR 91.121].  Your altitude is no longer exact, but
everyone at a given altitude, say 35,000 feet, is at the same
relative height above ground.  To handle actual local pressure
changes, the lowest usable flight level varies from 180  to 210.
Flight level 180 is available when the local sea level pressure
is 29.92" Hg or higher.  Flight level 210 is the first usable
one when local sea level pressure is 27.41" Hg to 26.92" Hg.

                                               Lee Jones

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2004\07\27@075547 by Anthony Toft

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> So much for turning off all electronic devices when the cabin crew and
> flight crew requested it, eh?

I have always considered this more of a 'get them off your laps and out
of the way in case something bad happens and you have to get off
quickly' if the laptop will cause no problems at 37,000 what's the
difference at 1,000 (except the pilot has a bit more time to work
through the problem)

And cell phones get turned off to protect the people who invested in
those satellite phones as the plane is continuously flying through cell
phone signals.

But this is just cynical old me!

{Quote hidden}

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2004\07\27@093306 by Howard Winter

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Herbert,

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:27:48 -0400, Herbert Graf wrote:

>         Also learned on the way back that a hand held
GPS unit can indeed get a
> fix from inside a A319 window at 39000 feet

I may be wrong, but I thought GPS receivers were on the
"must not use in flight" category of equipment for
airline passengers?

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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2004\07\27@093514 by David VanHorn

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>
>And cell phones get turned off to protect the people who invested in
>those satellite phones as the plane is continuously flying through cell
>phone signals.
>
>But this is just cynical old me!

I'm sure you're right to some degree, but the fact is that the cell network was never designed to deal with high speed, high altitude phones, and it does cause problems.

Also, in the end, the captain of the plane (directly or indirectly) told you to turn it off.  Nuff said.

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2004\07\27@094552 by Russell McMahon

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> I have always considered this more of a 'get them off your laps and out

> And cell phones get turned off to protect the people who invested in

> But this is just cynical old me!

You have to be careful to distinguish cynicism from ignorance or it may kill
you. Don't regard that as an insult - it's true.
If someone on a list like this can genuinely thinks this way, what hope do
we have of surviving the general public ? :-)
One of our members of parliament (now the Mayor of Auckland city) got fined
for using a cellphone on a local aircraft.

I comply, reluctantly, with the requirement to turn off my "electronic
camera" during landing and takeoff*, knowing that there are people with
legitimate cameras that may be as bad or worse, and other electronic
equipment which may be considered acceptable.

GSM cellphones have got to be amongst the worst. Not only do they pump out
hundreds of milliwatts of GHZ odd RF at random (at cell handover or because
they want to)(how often do you change cells while flying), they have the
characteristic LF radiation bug which was not appreciated until the system
was far too advanced to make stopping it acceptable and so was just swept
under the carpet. Anyone wanting to EMC type approve something equivalent
now would be laughed out of the lab. I know nothing which has a better
interference capability than a GSM cellphone. You can even expect to hear
the occasional toaster or dishwasher respond to them. Or A-319 or ....



       Russell McMahon

* I sadly missed out on being able to photograph all the remaining
Concorde's together from the air when we flew into London.

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2004\07\27@095137 by Howard Winter

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Nate,

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 02:56:11 -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:

> GPS altitude isn't very accurate

Indeed, and it annoys me that the GPS manufacturers don't take account of this and give altitude to the
nearest 10 feet, at best.  As it is mine (Garmin StreetPilot III) can be showing an error of, say, 23 feet
horizontally, but still shows altitude to the nearest foot!

I think they need to address the ergonomics of this - imagine if your car's fuel gauge showed the tank
contents to a resolution of CCs - drivers would try to run it down to the last few drops before refuelling and
then complain when it didn't work...

"Mr.Spock, how many Vulcans does it take to change a lightbulb?"
"Approximately 1.00000000000000000000000, Captain"  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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2004\07\27@100838 by Anthony Toft

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>
> > I have always considered this more of a 'get them off your laps and out
>
> > And cell phones get turned off to protect the people who invested in
>
> > But this is just cynical old me!
>
> You have to be careful to distinguish cynicism from ignorance or it may kill
> you. Don't regard that as an insult - it's true.

None taken, and for the record I _do_ comply completely with the pilot in
command, whether it's a commercial flight or the local C-182 that I'll be
leaving in flight. I really like the pilot in command rules (as far as I
understand them) when they are properly inforced, the pilot being the person
with the most skill and practice at determining if the flight should go ahead
or not.

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2004\07\27@111657 by tim_webb

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Fry's is Retail.. And just a great place to window shop!  I never buy anything from there, you can always find your best buys elsewhere.

{Original Message removed}

2004\07\27@114425 by Charles Craft

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(Wasn't sure where in the thread to stick this. Not specifically a reply to Russell's post below.)

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-07-19-aircells_x.htm

"In-flight cell phones 'worked great' in test"
<snip>
Last week, American and Qualcomm officials circled over West Texas in a jetliner making calls from their cell phones. The Federal Aviation Administration and the Federal Communications Commission authorized the flight to test the technology's safety and transmission quality.
<snip>
Even competitors liked the test flight. Bill Peltola, vice president of marketing at rival AirCell in Louisville, Colo., says the flight "demonstrated the safe use of cell phones in flight ... and that's good for our industry."
<snip>


{Original Message removed}

2004\07\27@123617 by Howard Winter

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Lee,

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 02:22:49 -0700, Lee Jones wrote:

> At and above 18,000 feet MSL (flight level 180), you set the
> altimeter to 29.92 inches of mercury (standard pressure) [in
> the US, see FAR 91.121].  Your altitude is no longer exact, but
> everyone at a given altitude, say 35,000 feet, is at the same
> relative height above ground.

In the UK it's rather lower than FL180 - perhaps because we have very little land that's higher than 3,000ft.
As far as I remember you set 1013.2hPa (hectopascals, formerly known as millibars) whenever you are in an
airway (which can be quite low around here!), and always above 10,000 ft.  Below that you set either the
regional QNH (air pressure at Mean Sea Level) or QFE (air pressure on the ground of the aerodrome concerned).
The latter is particularly useful when landing, as it means your altimeter will read zero as you touch down,
even in Denver, CO, which is about 5,000ft above sea level!

Something that a lot of films and TV programmes get wrong is the terminology - "Flight Level" means you are
referring to the 1013.2 setting, and it's in hundreds of feet (so FL180 is 18,000 ft), "Altitude" means in
relation to Sea Level with QNH set, and "Height" is in relation to the aerodrome level with QFE set, and the
latter two are given in feet.  So the next time you hear a pilot or controller say "twenty thousand feet" or
"flight level twenty thousand" it indicates the scriptwriters aren't pilots, and didn't check their facts!
:-)

Incidentally, in the run-up to the first unpleasantness in the Gulf, a UK controller was contacted by a US
aircraft arriving from across the Atlantic, which reported "above FL600" (the height that Concorde used to
fly).  On being asked: "Report your flight level" the pilot responded: "You don't need to know that" !  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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2004\07\29@042639 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> The second class was about MChip's soon to come full speed USB2.0 18F
> chips.

any price indication?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\07\29@094706 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 04:25, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > The second class was about MChip's soon to come full speed USB2.0 18F
> > chips.
>
> any price indication?
>
> Wouter van Ooijen

Unfortunately no, they weren't even to liberal with timeframe, the group
collectively got them to say Sep/Oct for sampling. I'd expect the price
to be similar to other PICs in that class. TTYL

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