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'[PIC:] Dwarf boards.'
2004\01\13@173127 by Intosh, Ph.D.

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Wouter van Ooijen  says:
>In the DN001.PDF document ("introduction, overview and reference"), there
>are some products that don't have any pictures. Are those not released yet
>? They seems to have prices in the price list, though...
>For those I have only a print design (at least untill the next Olimex
>shipment arrives), or only a prototype, or I did not take a good picture
>yet. The DwarfBoard 'product group' still very much in development.


Wouter,

Your dwarf boards look very nice.

I have tried to be very careful to make you think that I am not competing
with your programmer.

However, I am almost certainly competing between my "Controller" board and
the DB0016. :-)

- -- Aubrey


- ---
Aubrey  McIntosh
http://www.piclist.com/member/AM-vima-Y84
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


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2004\01\14@020337 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> However, I am almost certainly competing between my
> "Controller" board and the DB0016. :-)

Which just might be an indication that we are both following the same
good idea?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
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consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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2004\01\14@114919 by Intosh, Ph.D.

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Wouter van Ooijen  says:

>Probably so.  How did you come to this design?  Was it a Eureka
>moment?  Were you helping the kids play with LEGOs?



>I am a software guy, much more than hardware. The idea has been in the
>back of my head for a long time in one form or another.


I'm almost totally software, but I use and troubleshoot instruments.  Any
experience in the Wirth languages?  I did a couple of major projects one of
them, and that clearly drove my thinking.

- ---
Aubrey  McIntosh
http://www.piclist.com/member/AM-vima-Y84
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


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2004\01\14@130923 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I'm almost totally software, but I use and troubleshoot
> instruments.  Any
> experience in the Wirth languages?  I did a couple of major
> projects one of
> them, and that clearly drove my thinking.

I don't know how you can do anything in software (especially in Europe)
without hitting at least one Wirth language. I have used Algol60 (IIRC
Wirth was on the commitee) and Pascal, and studied Modula. Jal (my
language) looks al lot like algol/pascal/ada in syntax (but is much more
primitive).

Wouter van Ooijen

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consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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2004\01\14@175226 by Intosh, Ph.D.

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source= http://www.piclist.com/piclist/2004/01/14/130923a.txt?

Wouter van Ooijen  says:
>I don't know how you can do anything in software (especially in Europe)
>without hitting at least one Wirth language. I have used Algol60 (IIRC
>Wirth was on the commitee) and Pascal, and studied Modula. Jal (my
>language) looks al lot like algol/pascal/ada in syntax (but is much more
>primitive).

Actually, it is pretty typical in the US for people to think that all Cs
are the same language, that it is modern, and that it is preferable.  And
to compare the most trendy C product they use with some 1973 student
version of Pascal.  Many students can get a BS in CS with exposure only to
C and Java.  So I stand out quite a bit here by actually prefering Wirth's
work.  There is also a bit of "practical" instead of "liberals arts"
approach evident in a lot of CS curricula.  I learned two years ago that
there was a huge split on the practical vs liberal arts issue between
Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. Bubois, and in my opinion the wrong side
prevailed.  The erosion of liberal arts is a bit of an issue with me, so I
should stop.

This conversation woke up an old friend who was part of a consortium I put
together to get the source license to Wirth's 4 pass Modula-2 compiler back
in 1983.  The UCSD Pascal system on Apple // and Terak (an LSI-11 graphics
intensive machine) were the newest, coolest things at the time.

For reasons that surely made sense at the time, I wrote a p-machine
emulator in Pascal and ran it under the UCSD P-system, just to prove that I
really understood the internals.  Hmm.  I don't think the 16F877 would
support it.  I have to read the 18 datasheets, and pay attention to RAM
availability and addressing modes.

I used Algol 60 on a GE timeshare system in '69, and used an unfinished
Algol69 compiler in about '71-'72.  I have the source to the 68HC11
Oberon-2 compiler that was a Master's project.  The Wirth sequence is
Algol69 (committee), AlgolW, Pascal, Modula ('77?), Modula-2, Oberon,
Oberon-2, Component Pascal, all spaced about 5 years apart. I have read
almost all the code for the corresponding compiler on some other
processors, but I don't know if my temperament and skill mix are quite
right to bring off a PIC compiler, especially with the change to Harvard
architecture.

I'll go look at JAL, but right now I haven't.  Is it a finished line, or
are you going to evolve it more?

Have you looked at the BlackBox (Component Pascal) site?  I think the
language is very suitable for embedded work, but the compiler
implementations are somewhat narrow.  I also don't have my equilibrium on
some of the way the language enforces correctness with abstract types and
type extensions.

http://www.oberon.ch/prod/blackbox/

Are you up to discussing compiler support kernel data structures (off-list
?) on an occasional basis?

- ---
Aubrey  McIntosh
http://www.piclist.com/member/AM-vima-Y84
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


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2004\01\15@025404 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Algol69 compiler in about '71-'72.

Algol68?

> I'll go look at JAL, but right now I haven't.  Is it a
> finished line, or are you going to evolve it more?

I released the compiler source under GPL because I don't expect to have
much time for it. Don't get too high ideas of it, but at the very least
it is a HLL for PICs.

> http://www.oberon.ch/prod/blackbox/

Never heared of it, but I might take a look.

> Are you up to discussing compiler support kernel data structures
(off-list
?) on an occasional basis?

As time permits: of course.

Wouter van Ooijen

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