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'[PIC:] Code editors - need input'
2003\12\10@221620 by Matt Redmond

picon face
Hi All,

I'm new to PIC programming but I'm an experienced Windows programmer.  I am
struggling with the dearth of decent code editors /that are language-aware
and target aware/ for the various PIC programming languages (C variants,
PICBasic, assembly, etc...) and chips.

As I said, I'm used to Windows programming in editors that are language
aware and offer a rich set of features like Intellisense, MemberLists,
context-sensitive help, target device feature awareness, and so on.  I know
there are awesome code editors out there - but for the most part they aren't
geared toward PIC development.  Catering to everyone necessarily entails
reducing oneself to the lowest common denominator.  Why should PIC
programmers be limited by the needs of people editing HTML or C or whatever?

Several weeks ago I took it upon myself to write a code editor that is
tightly integrated with both my PIC C compiler and my programmer (kitsrus
#150).  It is aware of the peripherals available on my target chips.  I am
coding this in a manner that will allow easy extensibility - plugging in a
new language, compiler, programmer or device (i.e., target chip) will be as
simple as writing an XML file that defines information associated with the
plugged-in language, compiler, programmer or device.

I realize this is an ambitious endeavor but I've made great progress in the
last few weeks.  I'm writing this primarily for myself but will certainly
share it with members of the list as it becomes more functional.  In my
opinion it is INSANE to pay $100 for a great compiler but $400 for the /very
same/ compiler with a code editor that's marginal at best.  In the future I
might release it as shareware - who knows.  In the meantime, I'm just using
this as an opportunity to expand my Windows development skills and have a
little fun...

My appeal to the group is:  can you help me by letting me know the
features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is looking for
in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming specifically?  What are
the existing editors lacking that would make programming PICs easier and
more productive?  Please keep in mind that I'm writing a code editor - not a
compiler or new programming language...

To anyone who responds I'll commit to keeping you in the loop:  I'll send
you periodic updates of the editor forever and ever :-)

..Or you can just write and say I'm smoking crack...

Thanks so much for your input!

-matt redmond

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2003\12\11@003244 by Jean-Pierre Poulin

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Well, I'll grant you that the existing editors for PIC leave a lot to be desired when you compare them to something like
Visual Studio .Net (with 'Visual Assist' of course!)...

I'm also an experienced Windows developer, and my recent interest into PIC development is causing me some severe
withdrawal pains...
- I wished I could 'browse to' the declaration / definition of a symbol just by pressing 'F12'.  I can't estimate you
many precious seconds (!) I waste trying to open up some header file to find out how a struct is defined is some remote
header file...
- I wished I could open a header file by 'context menu' / 'open file'
- I wished the editor would tabify for me, and remove extra spaces.
- I wished there was a 'code beautify' feature like .Net's Ctrl-K + Ctrl-D
- The lack of docking windows in MPLAB is driving me nuts!  I'm constantly repositioning windows that always reappear at
their 'default' position, and this is a major drag as I code with a computer hooked up to three 21" monitors!
- The lack of bookmarks (Ctrl+F2 / F2) is a major pain in large source files.
- I wished the image could be uploaded to the image right after compile and the program to start running (assuming ICSP
here).  I hate the 12-steps that need to be done after every compile!
- There are a few 'keys' missing (such as Ctrl+BackSpace, Ctrl+], etc...)
- A 'F4' key to go to the next compile error would be nice...

Just my $0.02...

Good luck with your project!!

  Jean-Pierre

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@012539 by Andre Abelian

picon face
Matt,

I think one of the feature I like to have is wizard for example.
After click on wizard
1. choose pic
2. what language Hi-tech c, ccs c, asm
3. what peripherals to activate
4. what interrupts to activate
5. so on until reach the end then the code is ready for compiler

Andre



{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@020744 by scii?B?VHVncnVsIEdVQ0xV?=

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face
       would'nt it be nice to use UML for PIC programming ?
just decide the program flow diagram and click 'play'

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@023053 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> My appeal to the group is:  can you help me by letting me know the
> features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist)
> is looking for
> in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming
> specifically?

I might be a exception, but I want to use the same editor for Jal,
assembler, C, C++, Python, HTML, and even flat text. So waht I want is a
general-purpose editor (I like UltraEdit) with maybe some special
language-related features (coloring) and shell-out (compile & jump to
first error). Maybe try to get the sources of PFE and work from that?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\12\11@031320 by hael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

I also use Ultaedit for all text editing (and sometimes hex editing).  I'd
say the features I appreciate most are:

1) Robust syntax colouring - MPLAB 6 still gets confused when removing
comments in C
2) Find in Files - the editor will search all files within a project, or all
open files and display the results in a separate window.  Double clicking
each line found will take you to the relevant module and line.
3) Replace in Files
4) Function list. Each open file can have a separate window showing all the
functions within the file.  Double clicking will take you directly to the
function.
5) Comprehensive tool integration options.
6) Column mode -  you can cut and paste arbitrary rectangular blocks of
text.

In terms of productivity improvements, Ultraedit is the best $35 I've ever
spent.

Regards

Mike




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2003\12\11@032812 by Omer YALHI

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I used EditPlus, the best editor for me.  Most appriciated features (have to
have them):

- Syntax coloring
- Line numbering
- Column selection *VERY SIMPLE* hold down ALT key and select with the mouse
- Indenting multiple lines or selected column with the TAB key
- Project handling and external executable integration
- Error line jumps
- Function list (although it is not permanent, you have to hit ALT-F11 to
get the list.  I would love it if you have the function list on the left
side grouped by files in the project)

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2003\12\11@033021 by Marcel van Lieshout

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Andre Abelian wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I think one of the feature I like to have is wizard for example.
> After click on wizard
> 1. choose pic
> 2. what language Hi-tech c, ccs c, asm
> 3. what peripherals to activate
> 4. what interrupts to activate
> 5. so on until reach the end then the code is ready for compiler
>
> Andre
>

Take a look at the C-ide from FED: http://www.fored.co.uk , the wizard is
excellent!

Marcel

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2003\12\11@115308 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Andre Abelian wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I think one of the feature I like to have is wizard for example.
> After click on wizard

That brings up another point.  All interactions should be possible from the
keyboard alone.  I can type quite well, and I like keeping my fingers on the
keyboard.  Too me, mouse manipulations break the "automatic" flow where the
fingers just do the right thing without requiring thought, and are a lot
slower than a few keystrokes.  It would be especially nice if the editor
were based on a command interpreter internally and you can bind keys to
particular command sequences.  That's how the editor I now use works, and I
like it.

And another thing (you are going to regret having asked 2000 people for
their opinions), the PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN mechanism should move *half* a
page, not a whole page, or at least make it adjustable.  I find it annoying
to lose all context when I'm trying to scroll thru a document.


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2003\12\11@115849 by David Koski

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Hello,

An editor where I don't have to use the mouse or learn new keystroke sequences is much more important to me than wizards.  That is why I use vi (gvim for Windoze users) and ctags.  vi has syntax highlighting for just about everything.

david

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:21:50 -0800
Andre Abelian <RemoveMEengelecTakeThisOuTspamEARTHLINK.NET> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@120515 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> That brings up another point.  All interactions should be
> possible from the
> keyboard alone.

Remember the ctrl-K-crtl-B ctrl-K-ctrl-K ctrl-K-ctrl-C block copy (and
delete, move etc) operations in the good old TurboPascal editors? I have
never seen another scheme that setteled in my fingertips like that one!

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\12\11@122550 by Stef Mientki

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>That brings up another point.  All interactions should be possible from the
>keyboard alone.  I can type quite well, and I like keeping my fingers on the
>keyboard.  Too me, mouse manipulations break the "automatic" flow where the
>fingers just do the right thing without requiring thought, and are a lot
>slower than a few keystrokes.
>
Why try to stick in the previous century ?
I like a "code-editor" that doesn't need the keyboard at all.
What about
 - speech
 - handwriting
 - Dasher in combination with eye detection = "read your mind"
 - complete other design tools, like improved state machines
these technics are all available at the moment,
but there's (almost) no one that implements them.
Either the PIC market. is too small,
or we want to keep our job  ;-)

Stef Mientki

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2003\12\11@123346 by Andrew Warren

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Matt Redmond <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> My appeal to the group is:  can you help me by letting me know the
> features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is
> looking for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming
> specifically?

   All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright
   (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or
   with a very small amount of customization work.  Codewright, for
   instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's
   been requested so far in this thread.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- aiwEraseMEspam.....cypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\12\11@124556 by Daniel Imfeld

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Andrew Warren wrote:
> Matt Redmond <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:
>     All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright
>     (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or
>     with a very small amount of customization work.  Codewright, for
>     instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's
>     been requested so far in this thread.
>
>     -Andy
>
> === Andrew Warren -- RemoveMEaiwspam_OUTspamKILLspamcypress.com
> === Principal Design Engineer
> === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
> ===
> === Opinions expressed above do not
> === necessarily represent those of
> === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

Although I haven't tried it yet, Microchip now supplies a free "Visual
Device Initializer" addon for MPLAB 6.40, which will generate C18, C30, or
assembly code for the PIC18 and dsPIC to initialize all the peripherals
however you want.  The link is at the bottom of the MPLAB download page.

Daniel Imfeld

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2003\12\11@125010 by Tom Deutschman

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>     All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright
>     (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or
>     with a very small amount of customization work.  Codewright, for
>     instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's
>     been requested so far in this thread.
>
>     -Andy

Well, let's not forget about emacs. Been using it for 10 years and have
been productive with it for the past 8 :-)

Tom Deutschman

Wizbang Designs, Inc.
1629 W 8TH AVE
Spokane, WA  99204

Phone: (509) 251-4814
http://www.wizbangdesigns.com

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2003\12\11@125632 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Matt Redmond wrote:
> My appeal to the group is:  can you help me by letting me know the
> features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is
> looking for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming
> specifically?

One of my pet peeves with other editors (including the ones that come with
MSVC++ and MPLAB, which is one reason I don't use them) is that you can't
set the tab stops for real.  They assume you want tab stops at regular
intervals, which is really stupid.  For example, for PIC source editing I
set my tabs (in a real editor) to 10 (opcode), 18 (start of operands), 30
(start of comments), and all columns thereafter (in case operands end after
column 30).

And of course the editor must substitute spaces, not embed TAB characters in
the source code.


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2003\12\11@133655 by Edward Gisske

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Codewright is a very cool editor, although I think I read somewhere that
they are either sold or in the deadpool now.

My personal favorite comes from the world of CPM, later released under dos.
It was from a little company in Michigan called Compuview. (owned by Ted
Green, and originally called GreenLeaf, or something like that.) It had
everything and even ran under CPM! Multiple file editing, cut and paste,
multiple file windows. and a great bunch of ASM coder goodies. It could, for
instance, understand that everything between the first and second tab stop
should be all caps. It could do column-oriented cut and pastes. Very cool!
The column oriented operations included changing the case of the letters in
a highlighted area, which was nice for importing code into a program that
was not formatted to your tastes. It was very much a no-mouse pre-windows
attempt to get the same functionality that we now have under windows. It
it's last incarnation, it even had a pretty functional IDE cobbled up from
script files that called various tools.

I remember fondly some Jolt-fueled 24 hr coding blitzes that ended up with
800 lines of assembly code rammed through a 2Mhz Z-80 using this editor.
That, of course, was 20+ years ago, when I had speed and stamina.....

Oops, I've rambled..Maybe I should have posted all this under [OT]:

Edward Gisske, P.E.
Gisske Engineering
608-523-1900
gisskeSTOPspamspamspam_OUToffex.com

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@133656 by John Ferrell

face picon face
I would like it to look like a Borland/Delphi Editor and be user
configurable. It would be nice to have auto complete from a user modifiable
file as well. I would like to be able to to EVERYTHING from the keyboard.
If the program consists mainly of maps & tables, it should be adaptable to
each new application without having to change the way a programmer thinks
when he changes vendors.

I still keep a copy of Borland Turbo 3.0 on the system just as a quick
editor.

John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
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{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@135728 by Andrew Warren

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Tom Deutschman <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> Well, let's not forget about emacs. Been using it for 10 years and
> have been productive with it for the past 8 :-)

   Codewright can do emacs emulation (or vi, or brief, or Wordstar,
   or anything).

Olin Lathrop <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> One of my pet peeves with other editors ....  is that you can't
> set the tab stops for real.  They assume you want tab stops at
> regular intervals, which is really stupid.  For example, for PIC
> source editing I set my tabs (in a real editor) to 10 (opcode), 18
> (start of operands), 30 (start of comments), and all columns
> thereafter (in case operands end after column 30).

   Codewright does what you want.

> And of course the editor must substitute spaces, not embed TAB
> characters in the source code.

   Codewright can be configured to use tabs or spaces, and you can
   replace either with the other at any time.

John Ferrell <@spam@PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> It would be nice to have auto complete from a user modifiable file
> as well. I would like to be able to to EVERYTHING from the
> keyboard.

   Again, Codewright.

Edward Gisske <spamBeGonePICLISTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> Codewright is a very cool editor, although I think I read
> somewhere that they are either sold or in the deadpool now.

   Borland now owns Codewright.  http://www.codewright.com

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- .....aiwspam_OUTspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\12\11@142809 by Robert Reimiller

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On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:37:03 -0500, you wrote:

>I would like it to look like a Borland/Delphi Editor and be user
>
I use Delphi 5 for my Windows based programs but also found it works
very well as a general code editor and use it for any serious editing
on PIC code. Since Borland uses common code between Pascal and C the
Delphi editor does syntax highlighting just fine on PIC C code.

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2003\12\11@161135 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 08:48 US/Pacific, David Koski wrote:

> An editor where I don't have to use the mouse or learn new keystroke
> sequences is much more important to me than wizards.  That is why I
> use vi (gvim for Windoze users) and ctags.  vi has syntax highlighting
> for just about everything.

Likewise, I prefer to use emacs.

billw

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2003\12\11@162832 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
You know, the PROBLEM is that I'm really hesitant to use, and
get used to, an editor that is optimized for a particular
processor, and runs on a limited set of operating systems.
No matter HOW many bells and whistles it might have for a PIC
under windows, I still need (want) to program avrs, mips, ppcs,
windows itself, unix, solaris, macs, 8051s, ACE, 4 bit toshibas,
cypress, etc, etc, all while running on windows, macos, linux,
solaris, etc, etc.

An editor would have to offer really tremendous productivity
gains for a particular combination to justify the loss in
productivity that would result from having to switch editors
too often.

That's why I settled on emacs 20+ years ago (and I haven't been
sorry.)  vi seems to have gained similar cross-platform/target
compatibility (in a rather different style) more recently, so
that's another possibility.  But I'm just not interested in
anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at
least three major operating systems.

BillW

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2003\12\11@163245 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> But I'm just not interested in
> anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at
> least three major operating systems.

Three? I know only two, and one is not a real operating system, and the
other is not major yet ;)

Roughly the same reasoning led me to programming in Python.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\12\11@171025 by Liam O'Hagan

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That's a good point,

For some reason on one of the laptops here at work, pressing page down
scrolls about 1.5 pages! Completely missing information, very frustrating,
seeing as it doesn't have a PS2 mouse port and nobody has a USB mouse handy,
so you have to scroll using one of those annoying touchpads (clicking on the
scrollbar also results in 1.5 pages of movement!)

> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@181507 by ed_b_pes

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www.textpad.com

Inexpensive & powerful why reinvent the wheel?

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Rigby-Jones
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:12 AM
To: PICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC:] Code editors - need input


{Quote hidden}

I also use Ultaedit for all text editing (and sometimes hex editing).  I'd
say the features I appreciate most are:

1) Robust syntax colouring - MPLAB 6 still gets confused when removing
comments in C
2) Find in Files - the editor will search all files within a project, or all
open files and display the results in a separate window.  Double clicking
each line found will take you to the relevant module and line.
3) Replace in Files
4) Function list. Each open file can have a separate window showing all the
functions within the file.  Double clicking will take you directly to the
function.
5) Comprehensive tool integration options.
6) Column mode -  you can cut and paste arbitrary rectangular blocks of
text.

In terms of productivity improvements, Ultraedit is the best $35 I've ever
spent.

Regards

Mike




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2003\12\11@185657 by Matt Redmond

picon face
Thanks, everyone for the continued input - I really
appreciate it.

As far as reinventing the wheel goes - and this applies to
using /any/ of the existing editors:  As I said in my
original post, I'm doing this as a way to exercise my
development skills.   Considering the feature set I
envision, this is a very big project that touches many
areas I'd like to gain more experience in.  In addition
(and just as importantly), I've found that a project like
this is an ideal way to become more familiar with (a) the
programming languages involved (PIC-C and asm to start)
and (2) the target chips involved.  So those are my real
goals.

I'm distilling everyone's suggestions into a single list.
Many of the suggested features I've already planned or
included - others I'll try to tackle as soon as I can.


-matt redmond


On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:13:10 -0600
 ed_b_pes <ed_b_pesspamBeGonespamswbell.net> wrote:
>http://www.textpad.com
>
>Inexpensive & powerful why reinvent the wheel?
>

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2003\12\11@205341 by john chung

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One wish list.

Need regular expression in the text editor for *a lot* of reasons. Unix
regex should do the trick.

John

Matt Redmond wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\11@225152 by William Chops Westfield

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On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 13:32 US/Pacific, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> But I'm just not interested in
>> anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at
>> least three major operating systems.
>
> Three? I know only two, and one is not a real operating system, and the
> other is not major yet ;)

Well, when you start talking about editors, you get into display
and filesystem specifics and you might have to start dividing up "unix"
into the individual styles.  So I regularly use MacOSX, Windows, and
Solaris, which I think I have to count as there different operating
systems, even though macosx and solaris are both unix variants.  It's
an interesting question whether an x-windows based editor would be
sufficient for MacOSX.  That means that roughly, the three OSes
are windows, unix, and macos, but it's more like three window
systems in reality.


> Roughly the same reasoning led me to programming in Python.

I might have to look into python.  Just out of curiosity, why
python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems
to be pretty portable...)

BillW

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2003\12\12@015157 by Michael Davidson

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> I might have to look into python.  Just out of curiosity, why
> python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems
> to be pretty portable...)

I can't speak for Wouter, but the advantage of a scripting language like
Python is ease and speed of development.

Also, with a scripting language, you can distribute the script file and
anyone that has an interpreter can run it. With a compiled language like C
you'd have to compile it for every target OS / machine.

Python also has platform specific bindings and inheritance. Eg. On the BeOS
you can inherit from BWindow and friends to do GUI stuff using Python. Not
sure if there is a platform abstraction layer available as well so that one
could develop a GUI for any OS (which supports it) without code changes.

--
Michael Davidson
Fortune:
When a fellow says, "It ain't the money but the principle of the
thing," it's the money.
               -- Kim Hubbard

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2003\12\12@032239 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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And how I remember! Do you remember EDT, the editor on PDP-11 which has
been cloned also for PC? The GOLD key on the numeric keypad is a
phantastic idea, isn't it?

Regards,
Imre


On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@032447 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

I still keep it, too - not only as an editor, but also a quick prototyping
engine if I want to make some test about algorithms &c. Pretty more
efficient than BASIC!

Imre

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, John Ferrell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\12@032653 by

picon face
Imre Bartfai wrote :

> And how I remember! Do you remember EDT, the editor on PDP-11
> which has been cloned also for PC? The GOLD key on the numeric
> keypad is a phantastic idea, isn't it?
>
> Regards,
> Imre


I use EDT several hours each day, 20 years ago it was on
PDP-11/RSX-11M, today on OpenVMS on AlphaServers. Nothing
woring with it at all...

Jan-Erik.

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2003\12\12@040917 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I might have to look into python.  Just out of curiosity, why
> python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems
> to be pretty portable...)

Not when you want to do windows/graphics programming in a portable way.
And note that it is an interpreted language, so I dstrinbute a source
file, and it can run on platforms I have never heard of. No need to have
all the possible targets around, no need even for a set of cross
compilers. And it is a big bonus that high-level graphics libraries are
available (I like tk, but others don't, and they can simply choose
another lib. And those libs are portable too). And (after some getting
used to) I surely like the Python language. BTW I still use C/C++ when
speed matters.

Wouter van Ooijen

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Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
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2003\12\12@064924 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

a good bargain between portability/etc and the Speed of C is the language
Euphoria. It is interpreted, but for distro registered user can obfuscate
it. Speed is approx. a quarter of C so I use it e. g. for FFT. There is a
huge amount of 3rd party libs so I think it is worthwhile to look at their
website http://www.rapideuphoria.com. I am not affiliated in any way, you
know.

Imre

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@111301 by ed_b_pes

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TextPad was obviously written by a programmer who had this problem.  The
last line of the previous page is the first line of the new page - no matter
how large the window.  It's very easy to customize and uses lots of the old
CTRL key functions that a lot of us grew up on.  You can write your own
highlight files or use ones that others have developed.  Can you tell I'm a
believer ...

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\12@114558 by David Koski
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:04:55 +0100
Wouter van Ooijen <EraseMEwouterRemoveMEspamSTOPspamVOTI.NL> wrote:

> > That brings up another point.  All interactions should be
> > possible from the
> > keyboard alone.
>
> Remember the ctrl-K-crtl-B ctrl-K-ctrl-K ctrl-K-ctrl-C block copy (and
> delete, move etc) operations in the good old TurboPascal editors? I have
> never seen another scheme that setteled in my fingertips like that one!

That was inherited from WordStar.  And possibly from the time it was called WordMaster.

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2003\12\13@060746 by Peter L. Peres

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>I might be a exception, but I want to use the same editor for Jal,
>assembler, C, C++, Python, HTML, and even flat text. So waht I want is a
>general-purpose editor (I like UltraEdit) with maybe some special
>language-related features (coloring) and shell-out (compile & jump to
>first error). Maybe try to get the sources of PFE and work from that?

(g)vim ? Dutch, too.

Peter

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