Searching \ for '[PIC:] Baby Incubator Controllers using PICs' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'Baby Incubator Controllers using PICs'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[PIC:] Baby Incubator Controllers using PICs'
2003\08\10@141018 by CVT-SSS

flavicon
face
Hi All,

Has anyone some experience in Baby Incubator Controllers using PICs ?

Regards,

Augusto

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@153853 by Tom Messenger

flavicon
face
At 08:36 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Has anyone some experience in Baby Incubator Controllers using PICs ?
>
>Regards,
>
>Augusto

No.

But I did once work for a company that made "Baby Incubator Controllers".
Fortunately, it was a different division of the company (we made
spirometers). The other division had one of their controllers malfunction
and roasted a baby to death.  The bad taste joke was that in the future,
they would ship a case of barbeque sauce with each incubator.  If you are
working in this area, always think about failsafe operation.

Tom

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@155345 by CVT-SSS

flavicon
face
Hi Tom,

That means a Baby Grill Device !!!, I am thinking in safety first. Maybe two
controllers working in parallel with a third one checking each others will
do the work well.  I am planning to use PC100 thermocouples ( there are very
sensitive and fast ), heath source must have an external cut off
sensor/switch to avoid overheath.
The thing is to send via RS232 any change in temperature, humidity, air flow
and maybe the beat rate of the baby4s heart to a remote workstation.

Augusto


{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@175819 by Tom Messenger

flavicon
face
At 10:22 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Tom,
>
>That means a Baby Grill Device !!!, I am thinking in safety first. Maybe two
>controllers working in parallel with a third one checking each others will
>do the work well.  I am planning to use PC100 thermocouples ( there are very
>sensitive and fast ), heath source must have an external cut off
>sensor/switch to avoid overheath.
>The thing is to send via RS232 any change in temperature, humidity, air flow
>and maybe the beat rate of the baby4s heart to a remote workstation.
>
>Augusto

Think about things like the nurse puts a towell over the temperature sensor
- the controller sees low temps and turns on the heat.  And 10,000 more
problems like that one.  Consider *every* component going to short or open
or oscillating or ???  Consider learning that some PIC's don't work
reliably above 4MHz (last week here on the piclist).

One obvious idea is to have a heat source that when on 100% cannot produce
enough heat to harm the infant.  It takes longer to come up to temperature
however.  The company I worked for also built an infant respirator and used
2 uC's for failsafe to prevent exploding the babies lungs.  I think it took
5 years to be certified by the US FDA agency. This was all back in the
1970's.

And of course, try out your designs on *your own baby* first.  I am glad
not to be working in that field any more.

Good luck!
Tom

At Walmart now! The George Foreman "Fry Baby"!  er.. nevermind

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@212855 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
suggestion for your safety bit, you need 3 PIC's running the same sw and
voting on their actions (3 are needed in order to have a majority). You want
independent sensors such that a faulty sensor can be overcome. Isolate the
PIC's from each other. Then you want a 4th PIC running different SW (does
the same job but in a different way)to watchdog the other system. Get
somebody else to write that one and get another person again to check over
it, don't let the 2 dev teams interact on code. Make sure the 4th one is
isolated as much as possible from the other 3. Make it such that any PIC can
sound the alarm that something's wrong. Put voltage and current measurement
on your PIC's and the complete circuits, establish normal operating ranges
for both and have it signal a warning and or an alarm when it goes out of
spec. Make the communication between the PICs happen on individual lines or
via something like CANbus such that if one PIC fails or locks up it wont
lock the bus.

Oh and don't tell microchip about it because I'm pretty sure most of their
products come with a warning about using them in apps where lives are at
stake.

This isn't something that you can take on lightly, and I'd personally
recommend speaking to a professional safe software person. I just cant
remember the keyword but it was developed for air traffic control and NASA
etc for software where lives are at stake.
{Original Message removed}

2003\08\10@214757 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Put one or more thermal fuses in the heated area that cut power to the
entire device and sound an alarm above certian temperatures.

There's nothing like having a non-intelligent failsafe - search for and
read about the Therac 25 radiation problems.

-Adam

Tom Messenger wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@231020 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> This isn't something that you can take on lightly, and I'd personally
> recommend speaking to a professional safe software person. I just cant
> remember the keyword but it was developed for air traffic control and NASA
> etc for software where lives are at stake.

You mean the guys who messed up the real time clock on the Patriot missile
so that all those marines died in a scud attack in Dahrain, or the ones that
wrote the code for the mars lander?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\08\10@231639 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
no, the ones that wrote the code for air traffic control

Mars Lander is not man rated software, patriot missile is outside the scope
of the standard and was more than likely not written up to the standard. My
point is if it was your baby's life that was at stake wouldn't you do
absolutely everything to make sure that you weren't going to bake the child
to death over a period of several hours?

I'll take risks with my person but no way will I risk another life placed
under my care.

(I think the same spec is used for shuttle guidance software and Boeing nav
and fly-by-wire software as well.)
{Original Message removed}

2003\08\11@012628 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Jake Anderson wrote:

KISS.
If a 15 year old technology is reliable and available and proven,
why change it? (555 incubator controller).

> This isn't something that you can take on lightly, and I'd personally
> recommend speaking to a professional safe software person. I just cant
> remember the keyword but it was developed for air traffic control and NASA

Software engineering? Where the same rules for 'verification of correctness'
that are used in other engineering disciplines are applied to software.

> etc for software where lives are at stake.

This would be the same NASA that can't tell the difference between
metric and British units for thrust? (Mars polar orbiter crashed because
of a Metric-English mix up).

Even if you made your software fool proof, some high level manager
would override the warnings and order a launch, errr, higher temperature.

Robert

Who wonders why the idiots who continue to cause space shuttles to be
lost because of  their failure to follow their own rules,
continue to be promoted/employed?
Did they not learn ANYTHING from the Challenger disaster. Assume NOTHING.

Replies to [OT:]

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\08\11@024906 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> suggestion for your safety bit

The method I was learned for safety (for space going stuff) is to find
you what the 'least bad failure' is and try to steer all failure modes
towards that happening. In the case of an incubator that would probably
a false (unneeded) alarm to the nurse. So I would put in (at least) two
independent alarms. And an instruction to regularly check the proper
working of the alarm.

The next step on the 'bad things' list would be a somewhat
out-of-temperature condition (as oppossed to a way-out-of-temperature
condition). So maybe include a secondary (coarse) conditioning
(heating/cooling) system that by itself does not have enough muscle to
cook or freeze the baby, but maybe it must have the capability to
disable the primary system when it detects its mafunctioning.

Just my E0.02, note that I never designed medical stuff.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\08\11@071209 by cdb

flavicon
face
I believe some regulations for 'mission critical' type devices
require an external and separate watchdog controller, NOT the
internal one of the PIC.

Colin
--
cdb, spam_OUTbodgy1TakeThisOuTspamoptusnet.com.au on 11.08.2003

I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it
shows.

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until they speak!

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\08\12@072609 by Mike Singer

picon face
Olin Lathrop
> You mean the guys who messed up the real time clock on the
> Patriot missile so that all those marines died in a scud
> attack in Dahrain, or the ones that wrote the code for the
> mars lander?

From ELECTRONICSTALK
Issue 126: 12 August 2003

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RUGGEDISED PIC CONTROL SYSTEMS UPGRADE HERCULES
(Io, 11 August 2003)
Ruggedised control systems based on one of the world's most popular
microcontrollers are being used to refurbish the RAF C130 Hercules
military transport aircraft.
* Free brochure on Ruggedised PICmicro-based control systems:
 www.electronicstalk.com/rdx/da/iol/102/0
* Read more: www.electronicstalk.com/news/iol/iol102.html
 (or email .....iol102KILLspamspam@spam@txt.electronicstalk.com )
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They've chosen 16F, not 18F, wise men.

Mike.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\08\12@143540 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
I also have experience with chicken hatchery/egg incubators. I can see NO
parallel between this experience and what is required to make a working
incubator for humans.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2003 , 2004 only
- Today
- New search...