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'[OT} video chip'
1997\10\30@144549 by Alec Myers

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Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?

I have in mind a chip that behaves like an alpha-numeric LCD display,
except with a composite (or some other) video output. You'd be able to send
cursor commands to it, write characters to screen positions, read them
back, etc, all via (say) an I2C or 8-wire interface. 80x24 characters would
be nice.

I have a datasheet for an STV9425 that sort-of fulfills this, but I'm
wondering if there are any others out there.

Any comments appreciated.

Alec

1997\10\30@160255 by Dave & Sharon Pearson

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Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
> I have in mind a chip that behaves like an alpha-numeric LCD display,
> except with a composite (or some other) video output. You'd be able to send
> cursor commands to it, write characters to screen positions, read them
> back, etc, all via (say) an I2C or 8-wire interface. 80x24 characters would
> be nice.
>
> I have a datasheet for an STV9425 that sort-of fulfills this, but I'm
> wondering if there are any others out there.
>
> Any comments appreciated.
>
> Alec


Standard Microsystems Corp. has a 40 pin chip, the CRT9053, or CRT9153
that when paired with a Static RAM (6264) will do what you want.  It has
25 lines by 80 columns, with cursor control, blink, crude graphics,
scrolling and soft scrolling.   It uses 8 bit parallel input with some
control lines and has both composite video and separate HSYNC, VSYNC and
video outputs.  I don't know how available it is, but it costs about
$20.00.  Do a search on the web for them.
I've used this in the past for test instrument interface to an 80C552
controller.  If you use a 256K ram, you can have a multiwindow display,
just change the high order RAM address bits to jump pages.  Hope this
helps.

Dave Pearson

1997\10\30@161334 by Alf_Kare Riisnaes

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On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Alec Myers wrote:

> Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
> I have in mind a chip that behaves like an alpha-numeric LCD display,
> except with a composite (or some other) video output. You'd be able to send
> cursor commands to it, write characters to screen positions, read them
> back, etc, all via (say) an I2C or 8-wire interface. 80x24 characters would
> be nice.
>
> I have a datasheet for an STV9425 that sort-of fulfills this, but I'm
> wondering if there are any others out there.
>
> Any comments appreciated.
>
> Alec
>

Well, I might be able to point you in the right direction. You probably
already have the chip needed; a PIC. In issue #32 March 1993 of
The Computer Applications Journal a gentleman with the name of Philip C.
Pilgrim have just done what you want to do! He has made a PIC interface
with a normal NTSC monitor. The article gives detailed description on how
to do this, and background on how it works.

I suggest that you go to your local library and look it up. The details
are a little too complex for this forum!

1997\10\30@182722 by Don McKenzie

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Dave & Sharon Pearson wrote:

> Standard Microsystems Corp. has a 40 pin chip, the CRT9053, or CRT9153
> that when paired with a Static RAM (6264) will do what you want.  It has
> 25 lines by 80 columns, with cursor control, blink, crude graphics,
> scrolling and soft scrolling.   It uses 8 bit parallel input with some
> control lines and has both composite video and separate HSYNC, VSYNC and
> video outputs.  I don't know how available it is, but it costs about
> $20.00.  Do a search on the web for them.
> I've used this in the past for test instrument interface to an 80C552
> controller.  If you use a 256K ram, you can have a multiwindow display,
> just change the high order RAM address bits to jump pages.  Hope this
> helps.
>
> Dave Pearson

I found the CRT9053 at $$33.25 and the CRT9153 at $14.80 in singles.
SMC has data facilities, but short of chasing the data CD-Rom or fax
back, what's the main difference Dave?

Don McKenzie  spam_OUTdonTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

DonTronics Logo Design Contest http://www.dontronics.com/logo.html
Basic Stamp Windows 95 Front End Now Available.
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1997\10\30@190435 by wwl

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On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:27:34 +0000, you wrote:

>Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
>I have in mind a chip that behaves like an alpha-numeric LCD display,
>except with a composite (or some other) video output. You'd be able to send
>cursor commands to it, write characters to screen positions, read them
>back, etc, all via (say) an I2C or 8-wire interface. 80x24 characters would
>be nice.
You may be able to use one of the Philips teletext chips (ignoring the
decoder section), but will only be 40 x 25 - as these are used in
zillions of TVs, they should be cheap.

1997\10\30@203253 by Dave & Sharon Pearson

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Don McKenzie wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Don,
       The CRT9053 is set up for a interface optimized for the 8051, 8085,
Intel type micros.  These use a separate WR' and RD' strobes to transfer
data between the micro and the CRT9053.  The CRT9053 is set up for a
Motorola type interface, a Data Strobe DS', and a Read/ Write line R/W'
used with the 6800,68000 micros.  That is the only difference.  I used
the CRT9153 with a 8051 derivative.  The extra logic gates is well worth
the difference in price between the two.  I have a PC board that
impliments the circuit described above, as well as the level shifting
and video adjustments.  I thought that in the days of the Flat Panel LCD
the need for CRT controllers was dead.

Dave Pearson

1997\10\30@212524 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   >Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?

Surely the "hercules monochrome graphics card" chips used in PC clones come
very close?  Even the VGA chips might be appropriate.  I'll concede that
these are big things that probably don't have serial interfaces and would
probably be a pain to deal with.  Fitting 2K+ of ram on a cheap chip is a
little difficult, I think...

BillW

1997\10\30@214608 by L. Anderson

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Date sent:  30-OCT-1997 21:26:44

Hi --

Ok, a few spring to mind. There's the motorola parts, 6845 and 6847.
Both generate the video signal themselves. Still available from
Jameco. I believe you'll need a 1377 to integrate the video signal
to composite.

Also, if you can still find one, the TI 9918/9928 series. Steve
Ciarcia wrote an excellent article for Byte about the 9918 back in
the early 80s.

The NEC 7220 was popular in terminals. Again, there was an article
in Byte back in the 80s.

And there's something called the CRT5037, which is listed as "CRT
controller", whatever that is.

David Anderson                    Web Site Administrator
RemoveMEdavid.andersonTakeThisOuTspamplattsburgh.edu

1997\10\30@225319 by Don McKenzie

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Dave & Sharon Pearson wrote:

snip----

{Quote hidden}

Yep, I know the sort of differences Dave Ta. Been there many times. :-)

A need for video over LCD's? I think so. Application dependant of
course.
The amount of chat on this subject appears to indicate there is still a
use for large screen technology.

Don McKenzie  spamBeGonedonspamBeGonespamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

DonTronics Logo Design Contest http://www.dontronics.com/logo.html
Basic Stamp Windows 95 Front End Now Available.
PicNPoke "Pacman like" Multimedia Simulator for the PIC16x84.
SimmStick(tm) Atmel & PIC proto PCB's. 30 pin Simm Module Format.
For more details, send a blank message to TakeThisOuTinfoEraseMEspamspam_OUTdontronics.com
or RemoveMEsimstickspamTakeThisOuTdontronics.com or basicsEraseMEspam.....dontronics.com

1997\10\30@231153 by Christopher Biggs

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William Chops Westfield <EraseMEbillwspamcisco.com> moved upon the face of the 'Net and
spake thusly:

>     >Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
>

An issue of "Circuit Cellar" a few years back had an article on
bit-banging NTSC direct from a PIC!! (It was a wind vane with video
speed and direction display).

There's also the way cool processors being developed by Chuck Moore at
Computer cowboys (http://www.dnai.com/~jfox/cowboys.html) with
on-board video generator.

Chris.

--
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1997\10\30@232523 by Steven J Tucker

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On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Alec Myers wrote:

> Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?

You could take the TIA from an Atari 2600.

Steve

1997\10\31@002047 by John Payson

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> On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
> You could take the TIA from an Atari 2600.

That would probably not be the best choice.  Stella may have been capable
of some really neat tricks, but driving it from a PIC would be problematic
at best (among other things, Stella expects CPU clock to be its colorburst
divided by THREE; you may be able to do some interesting tricks to give the
PIC a "putt putt" cycle, but that would require at least another chip--most
likely two or three "jellybeans" or a PLD.  In addition, the poor PIC would
be able to do very little BUT manage the display.

Actually, the best video chip if it were still made would be the "80-column"
chip from a Commodore 128.  The interface on that thing was quite a lot like
the LCD thing (two registers; one for address/commands, the other for data.
Reading the address register gives you busy/ready) and all it required for
hookup to an RGB monitor was two 4164's or 41256's (DRAM chips); the chip
would do everything else necessary for a 40- or 80-column display with
options for underlining, two siluntaneous character fonts (a bit in each
character's attribute register indicates which set), a bit-mapped hi-res
mode, hardware data-move/data-fill support, etc.  Beautiful chip; too bad
it's not made anymore.

[BTW, the 6485 does NOT give video out; all it does is generate display
addresses.  It's up to the user to actually turn the fetched display data
into pixels.]

1997\10\31@023200 by Michael Coop (pjm)

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Just an aside on this thread...

Many of the 'computer' CRT controllers were not designed to generate 'TV'
compatible rasters...  either their dot-clock / interlace formats were
non-standard, and they don't specifically generate the correct color timing
for PAL or NTSC composite outputs.

My first choice would be look at the Philips / NEC (or others) On-Screen
Display chips and Teletext display chips (not the decoder!) - as they
already have the sync genlock capability and 'keyer' logic to insert the
video cleanly into the RGB / YUV signals.

A separate encoder is then the best choice for getting a crisp 'composite'
output.

Regards
MC


On Friday, October 31, 1997 10:34 AM, David L. Anderson
[SMTP:RemoveMEANDERSDLspam_OUTspamKILLspamSPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU] wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1997\10\31@040107 by William Chops Westfield

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MAY of the "crt controller" chips are very far from being "single-chip"
display solutions, frequently requiring external character generator ROMs,
external memory, and so on.  Look at an "original" IBM-PC display adaptor
to get an idea of the "pessimal" circuit size...

   Also, if you can still find one, the TI 9918/9928 series. Steve
   Ciarcia wrote an excellent article for Byte about the 9918 back in
   the early 80s.

The 9918 was a neat chip.  I was looking at the one in my "collection" just
the other day.  IIRC, it's strictly a graphics chip (with sprites!) - no
character generator or anything.  About all it required was some external
DRAM (bet you'd have trouble finding DRAM in that size today!)

Lancaster did some early work with computers based on a 6502 that used the
CPU for some of the CRT timing, while running the programs during vertical
retrace intervals.  I'd still recomend his "TV Typerwriter Cookbook" as a
good book for explaining the principles of operation of such a device.

I've toyed with the idea of using the ubiquitous and extemely cheap
Hercules compatible controllers available for PCs ($10 each these days) in
conjunction with a medium microcontroller (ie 8051) to create a very cheap
"terminal" (monitor not included), but it keeps costing too much for a box
and power supply - might as well buy an obsolete PCclone ($35 for the last
one I bought.)

The project using a PIC to directly generate video had pitiful resolution
and required that the character bitmaps be generated by the programmer.
Not quite what was requested, I think.

Using one of the videotext chips sounds like a reasonable starting point.
Do they do video signal generation, or do they rely on external circuitry
for that, inserting their own data as appropriate for the text?

In some sense, the device the original poster asked for is very readilly
available, and it's called a "VDT" (ie, a computer terminal) (the last
terminal I bought was a whopping $50, but that includes screen, and it's a
very nice terminal indeed (as it sits in storage.))

Now, a cheap little backpack-like device implementing a modest terminal
might be a neat device, and could probably be built.  But I'm having a
little trouble imagining the niche between an LCD and a printer that it
would fill...

BillW

1997\10\31@051038 by Pasi T Mustalahti

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On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, William Chops Westfield wrote:

>     >Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
> Surely the "hercules monochrome graphics card" chips used in PC clones come
> very close?  Even the VGA chips might be appropriate.  I'll concede that
> these are big things that probably don't have serial interfaces and would
> probably be a pain to deal with.  Fitting 2K+ of ram on a cheap chip is a
> little difficult, I think...
PTM: Hercules used the same 6845 as CGA. In the bottom of the VGA there
is the same structure.
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1997\10\31@053606 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   > Surely the "hercules monochrome graphics card" chips used in PC
   > clones come very close?

   PTM: Hercules used the same 6845 as CGA.

Sure, and probably the original monochrome adaptor too.  But the modern
clones are down to about one chip that does everything, including ram and
parallel port.  Slightly less modern clones have external ram.

BillW

1997\10\31@074209 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, William Chops Westfield wrote:

>     > Surely the "hercules monochrome graphics card" chips used in PC
>     > clones come very close?
>
>     PTM: Hercules used the same 6845 as CGA.
>
> Sure, and probably the original monochrome adaptor too.  But the modern
> clones are down to about one chip that does everything, including ram and
> parallel port.  Slightly less modern clones have external ram.
PTM: True. But inside these chips there hides the soul of the 6845.
>
> BillW
>

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1997\10\31@104452 by michael chibnik

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Hello everyone:

I think the chip you need might be in your hands already.  Go the library and
look at the old issues of Popular Electronics in the middle seventies.  Don
Lancaster presented a series of articles on so called "TV" typewriters.  In
the last few articles on this subject Don showed how to use a KIM-1 (6502
Developement board) and a handful of components to make a 32 char by 16 line
television display.  In the articles were schematics and assembly listings.
The PIC parts have much more performance than the old 6502 part and are more
than fast enough.  The only problem I see is that you will have to use an
external RAM chip to store the characters for the screen.  Storing the bit
patterns for the characters might also be a little tircky for some of the
parts with less EPROM storage.

good luck.    Mike Chibnik

1997\10\31@133955 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
       Not quite "video chip", but how about using a standard monochrome
or VGA PC video card and addressing it?  All the work's been done, and
they're real cheap.

Harold

1997\10\31@144429 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <KILLspam34591fed.200567spamBeGonespamsmtp.netcomuk.co.uk>, Mike Harrison
<EraseMEwwlspamEraseMENETCOMUK.CO.UK> writes
>On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:27:34 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>>
>>I have in mind a chip that behaves like an alpha-numeric LCD display,
>>except with a composite (or some other) video output. You'd be able to send
>>cursor commands to it, write characters to screen positions, read them
>>back, etc, all via (say) an I2C or 8-wire interface. 80x24 characters would
>>be nice.
>You may be able to use one of the Philips teletext chips (ignoring the
>decoder section), but will only be 40 x 25 - as these are used in
>zillions of TVs, they should be cheap.

The problem with teletext chips is that they don't produce composite
video, only RGB out which may be a problem depending what you are
wanting to feed. Also they don't produce any sync outputs, you would
need to produce an external sync signal to feed into the chip.

If even lower resolution would be acceptable, you could use OSD chips
for VCR's that give 24 x 12.

--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : @spam@nigelg@spam@spamspam_OUTlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
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       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1997\10\31@151718 by Gennady Palitsky

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Nigel Goodwin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

      \--------------------------------------------------------------/
And SGS's STV5730A provides 28(characters) x 11 (lines)

Gennady Palitsky
Jefferson Audio Video Systems
TakeThisOuTgennadyp.....spamTakeThisOuTmainlink.net

1997\10\31@163349 by John Payson

picon face
> I think the chip you need might be in your hands already.  Go the library and
> look at the old issues of Popular Electronics in the middle seventies.  Don
> Lancaster presented a series of articles on so called "TV" typewriters.  In
> the last few articles on this subject Don showed how to use a KIM-1 (6502
> Developement board) and a handful of components to make a 32 char by 16 line
> television display.

I think the best approach would probably be to use a 16C64, 32Kx8 of RAM
wired up to 24 port pins, and a couple of PLD's; one of the PLD's would
convert data into shift-out pixels and the other would act as a tri-stat-
able counter and horizontal sync generator (vertical sync would be produced
by the PIC).  Crude Apple ][-style color could be done easily; better color
would take a bit more work.

Using this approach, where the hardware handles HSYNC and the PIC does VSYNC
and line-counting would allow the PIC to have a reasonable amount of time to
process incoming data.  This is the approach I'd recommend.

1997\10\31@194451 by )

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Bill W. Wrote:

> Now, a cheap little backpack-like device implementing a modest
> terminal
> might be a neat device, and could probably be built.  But I'm having a
> little trouble imagining the niche between an LCD and a printer that
> it
> would fill...
>
>
Well Bill, here's a few ideas of mine for the "niche" for starters:

Display of data to a machine operator on a production line (with say
RS-422/RS-485 interface). Once you get past the small size LCDs, things
get pretty expensive for a 12 inch active matrix display. Plus, viewing
angle is still greater for CRTs. (getting closer all the time, but still
very expensive).

Setup menu and/or On-screen display for a video surveillance system.

Setup menuing / status / etc. for home automation system with a TV used
for the display device.

Plug and go module with serial data in and composite video (NTSC/PAL
(possibly SECAM) switchable) output with options for RF modulator and
Genlock priced in line with something like Scott Edward's serial
backpack modules.

-Frank


Frank Richterkessing

TakeThisOuTFRANK.RICHTERKESSINGKILLspamspamspamAPPL.GE.COM


'[OT} video chip'
1997\11\01@005537 by derekn
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William Chops Westfield <.....billwspamRemoveMECISCO.COM> wrote:

> The 9918 was a neat chip.  I was looking at the one in my "collection" just
> the other day.  IIRC, it's strictly a graphics chip (with sprites!) - no
> character generator or anything.  About all it required was some external
> DRAM (bet you'd have trouble finding DRAM in that size today!)

The 9918 was used in the TI-99/4, and the 9918A was used in the
TI-99/4A.

You're right that it doesn't have a character generator, but it does
have a "character mode".  There were four modes (using the 99/4A
terminology, I don't remember if the 9918A data sheet called them
something different):

1. Character mode: 32x24, with a 256-character font.  Each character in
the font is 8x8, defined by 8 bytes in video memory.

2. Text mode: like character mode, but 40x24, and uses 5x7 (I think)
characters.  I believe this was added in the 9918A.

3. Multicolor mode: very much like the Apple II lo-res mode.  The
resolution was something like 64x48, with 16 colors.

4. Drat, I forget the name -- bitmap mode?  Anyway, this was the
256x192 hi-res mode.  The color scheme was a little strange -- I don't
remember the details, except that it wasn't quite as strange as the
Apple II.

Sorry for going (even farther) off topic -- just be glad I didn't get
started on the rest of the old TI-99/4A system...

While I'm at it, has anyone interfaced to the LCD/touchpad that one of
the surplus places was selling a while back?  It's labeled Sharp
LM64194F, and the LCD part looks like a fairly standard graphics LCD
interface.  Unfortunately, the documentation (a xerox of the Sharp
datasheet) doesn't say much about the digitizer interface.  It
effectively says "buy the following chips from Wacom...".

- Derek


- Derek

1997\11\01@013214 by deanz

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On page:

http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/files/index.html

video.zip (2K) Eric Schlaepfer's 16x84 VGA monitor interface

inside video.zip reads.
This zip file contains information on interfacing a PIC with
a VGA moniter.  It contains:
video.asm       The main source file (MPASM assembler)
video.bmp       the circuit diagram

also on the same page
clockpic.zip (6K) Peter Knight's unfinished video clock (625/50 video)
picdream.zip (17K) A low cost video generator by Alain Fort

Hope this is of help

Dean.

(-;   I used to be indecisive.....................but now I'm not sure

;-)

> Does anyone know of a single-IC video interface?
>
[snip]
> Any comments appreciated.
>
> Alec

1997\11\01@051904 by Bob Buege

picon face
In a message dated 97-10-31 15:59:04 EST, Harold Hallikainen wrote:

>         Not quite "video chip", but how about using a standard monochrome
>  or VGA PC video card and addressing it?  All the work's been done, and
>  they're real cheap.
>
>  Harold

I tried this solution in the late 80's. It worked great. My project involved
designing a cash register for high school cafeterias. I used an 80188 which
was basically an 8088 with I/O, interupts, and DMA. The board had battery
backed ram, 2 serial ports, a speaker, interface to a custom touch screen,
and a bar code reader. The program was stored in eprom.

I included a PC compatible slot for a monochrome card because I couldn't
justify designing my own video interface when monochrome graphics cards were
so cheap. The graphics card came with 64K of ram of which only a small amount
was required in test mode (I think it was 8K). I used the extra memory to
store menus. This allowed me to use the battery backed ram strictly for
keeping track of information on the students (credit balance, whether
qualified for free meal, which students have already received free meals,
etc.). The only problem that I encountered was during development when I
discovered that my system would work fine with a real Hercules graphics card
(a foot long board made by Hercules) but not with Hercules compatible boards.
I finally discovered that the smaller Hercules compatible boards weren't
refreshing dynamic ram frequently enough. I don't know if that was due to my
unconventional use of the extra memory for program usage. In any event I was
able to solve the problem but programming a DMA channel on the CPU to refresh
the ram.

Bob

1997\11\01@185411 by deanz

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face
I can't get there myself at the moment,(have it in cache
only) maybe only allowed in university hours, but I
know I have had trouble getting on. I can send you the
video.zip if needed. Don't have the others.

Dean

(-;     When people run around and around in circles
       we say they are crazy. When planets do it we
       say they are orbiting.

;-)

> >On page:
> >
> >http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/files/index.html
>
>
>     Doesn't work, it tells me I don't have permission. TTYL

1997\11\02@013925 by deanz

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face
Yeah, for video.zip try:

ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC

Dean.

{Quote hidden}

1997\11\02@130951 by Alec Myers

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>Once you get past the small size LCDs, things
>get pretty expensive for a 12 inch active matrix display. Plus, viewing
>angle is still greater for CRTs. (getting closer all the time, but still
>very expensive).

This was part of the reason for the original posting. I have an existing
design, using LCD screen. It would be nice to give the user the option to
connect a video monitor for

i) display of more information (the more the merrier, within reason)
ii) remote display/multiple outputs.
iii) better readability.
iv) time lapse video for data-logging

I don't want to go to great lengths (more than say one IC + SRAM) or use a
lot of space, but if all it needs is a $10 chip and an external BNC
connector, it has to be worth doing. Just imagine how many designs you
already have that might benefit from an (optional) larger display.

I shall follow up all the leads here, and report back...


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