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'[OT]low cost fire suppresion system WAS [EE] stupi'
2006\01\06@210334 by R. I. Nelson

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William Chops Westfield wrote:

>> <>The usual failure mode involves fumes and (rather violent) fire,
>> rather than explosion and shrapnel. I would worry that your
>> plexiglas would make a fine fuel for expanding the fire...
>>

A gentleman I knew had several lasers for cutting intricate designs in
paper and wood.
On rare occasions they would have a fire in the cabinet. I made a
circuit for him that when the operator would hit a panic button it would
turn off the laser, flood the cabinet with CO2 and slow the exhaust fan
down quite a bit.  He had CO2 on hand for some of the lasers.  the
exhaust fan was slowed down so it did not suck the CO2 out faster the we
put it in and yet exhausted the fumes from the cabinet.  
You could add a system like this to your Plexiglas box quite
reasonably. Get your self a CO2 bottle for about $20 to $50 dollars. a
valve to fit bottle for about $10 a regulator for $30 to $40(this will
drop the CO2 bottle from 900 + PSI to under  100 PSI.  You can have the
CO2 bottle filled at the local Paintball store for About $2 to $6
depending on size and location.

You watch ebay you can buy the stuff  at  quite a savings.

I have some of the used stuff on hand now if you wish to contact me off
list.




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2006\01\06@215049 by William Chops Westfield

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On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:03 PM, R. I. Nelson wrote:

> flood the cabinet with CO2

You missed "thermite-like reaction"; there's reason to suspect
that the initial fire would be pretty immune to CO2, although
it might be handy in suppressing the secondary fires.  On the
third hand, I'm not sure I want high pressure CO2 bottles any
where near things that might get very hot and not go out!

BillW

2006\01\06@222713 by R. I. Nelson

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William Chops Westfield wrote:

>On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:03 PM, R. I. Nelson wrote:
>
>  
>
>>flood the cabinet with CO2
>>    
>>
>
>You missed "thermite-like reaction"; there's reason to suspect
>that the initial fire would be pretty immune to CO2, although
>it might be handy in suppressing the secondary fires.  
>

>On the third hand, I'm not sure I want high pressure CO2 bottles any where near things that might get very hot and not go out!
>
>BillW
>  
>
First off you can put the bottle some distance away from the suspected
hot area.

Secondly all the Paintball CO2 bottles that I have worked with have a
over pressure blow out plug that will empty the bottle before it
ruptures.  My son left a full bottle on the back seat of his car on a
sunny day. the outside temp. was about 80 DEG  F. I am not sure what
temp the inside of the car got to but the safety plug blew out and
emptied the bottle. It was only a 9 OZ size.

If you have a situation where you have an occasional little fire that
needs more then a wet rag, but its too small to use a big fire
extinguisher that will cost $20 or more to recharge.  These can fill the
gap.  But I still have 5, 10 and 25 LBS CO2 extinguishers in the house,
basement laundry room and shop.  Cheaper then a $200 or more fire call




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2006\01\06@222724 by David VanHorn

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>
>
> You missed "thermite-like reaction"; there's reason to suspect
> that the initial fire would be pretty immune to CO2, although
> it might be handy in suppressing the secondary fires.  On the
> third hand, I'm not sure I want high pressure CO2 bottles any
> where near things that might get very hot and not go out!



Tongs, metal bucket with sand.. Gloves.

2006\01\06@231810 by Peter van Hoof

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The Thermite like reaction is because the oxides bound in the materials of the battery
form a redux reaction in which they reduce from one material (caused by heat) and bind with
other ones causing greater heat this proces is self sustained, exotherm, and needs no
Oxigen. Any CO2 would be ineffective unless you could cool the whole thing with liquid co2.

Peter van Hoof

{Original Message removed}

2006\01\06@233920 by Shawn Wilton

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Tell you what, I wouldn't get anywhere near a battery spewing flaming
electrolyte with a set of gloves and tongs...

On 1/6/06, David VanHorn <dvanhornspamKILLspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\01\06@234612 by David VanHorn

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I work with relatively small batteries, and used to be a fireman. :)

2006\01\07@003623 by VULCAN20

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Peter van Hoof wrote:

>The Thermite like reaction is because the oxides bound in the materials of the battery
>form a redux reaction in which they reduce from one material (caused by heat) and bind with
>other ones causing greater heat this proces is self sustained, exotherm, and needs no
>Oxigen. Any CO2 would be ineffective unless you could cool the whole thing with liquid co2.
>  
>
I never meant to suggest this would stop the above mentioned fire or any
other self sustaining  chemical fire.

> <> I would worry that your
> plexiglas would make a fine fuel for expanding the fire...

2006\01\07@044546 by Shawn Wilton

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My dad was also a fireman, then a fire marshal for the state.  I'm pretty
sure he wouldn't go near that battery either...

On 1/6/06, David VanHorn <.....dvanhornKILLspamspam.....microbrix.com> wrote:
>
> I work with relatively small batteries, and used to be a fireman. :)
> -

2006\01\07@061937 by Howard Winter

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On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:27:22 -0500, David VanHorn wrote:

> Tongs, metal bucket with sand.. Gloves.

Running shoes, clear path, outward-opening swing door!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\01\07@070442 by Shawn Wilton

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Good insurance..

On 1/7/06, Howard Winter <EraseMEHDRWspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:27:22 -0500, David VanHorn wrote:
>
> > Tongs, metal bucket with sand.. Gloves.
>
> Running shoes, clear path, outward-opening swing door!  :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Howard Winter
> St.Albans, England
>
>
> -

2006\01\07@090511 by Peter Todd

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On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 11:19:30AM +0000, Howard Winter wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:27:22 -0500, David VanHorn wrote:
>
> > Tongs, metal bucket with sand.. Gloves.
>
> Running shoes, clear path, outward-opening swing door!  :-)

Nah, large bunker, robotic actuators, second bunker many, many feet
away!

I think you can guess which bunker I'll be found in...


Actually this is reminding me of the US's facility to maintaining
nuclear weapons. The website's pretty detailed, and points out that it's
situated in the middle of a *huge* buffer area of leased out
agricultural land. I noticd that that buffer area is bigger than the
test sites used back when they were doing above ground nuclear tests...
My guess is the idea is that in the worst case scenario the facility
staff and some farmers in their tractors may all be dead, but at least
it's well away from any cities!

A tad more energy than lithium batteries of course...

--
petespamspam_OUTpetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\01\07@201211 by Mike Hord

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> > You missed "thermite-like reaction"; there's reason to suspect
> > that the initial fire would be pretty immune to CO2, although
> > it might be handy in suppressing the secondary fires.  On the
> > third hand, I'm not sure I want high pressure CO2 bottles any
> > where near things that might get very hot and not go out!
>
> Tongs, metal bucket with sand.. Gloves.

Sounds like the FoaF who put wheels too large on a Bronco II
about 10-12 years ago.  Out showboating, the U-joint caught fire.
All he had on hand was a half-can of Diet Pepsi, and he actually
tried to extinguish the fire with it.

Despite the FoaF status of the story, I trust it, because I've met
the guy and he is quite capable of doing something that dumb.

Mike H.

2006\01\07@202247 by David VanHorn

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>
>
> Despite the FoaF status of the story, I trust it, because I've met
> the guy and he is quite capable of doing something that dumb.


I used a 7-up to put out an engine fire once, on someone else's car.
Shake, invert, pop.

It was all I had at the time.

2006\01\07@224816 by Peter Todd

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On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 08:22:47PM -0500, David VanHorn wrote:
> >
> >
> > Despite the FoaF status of the story, I trust it, because I've met
> > the guy and he is quite capable of doing something that dumb.
>
>
> I used a 7-up to put out an engine fire once, on someone else's car.
> Shake, invert, pop.
>
> It was all I had at the time.

Heck, I've used natural means to put out a campfire before when I was a
kid camping with my cousins in the Canadian Rockies. We'd been sitting
by the fire drinking a fair bit of tea and no-one had remembered to
bring a water bucket... Suffice to say, I'm kinda glad our tents were
upwind of the fire after it was out...

--
@spam@peteKILLspamspampetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\01\08@132038 by Peter

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On Sat, 7 Jan 2006, David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Did it work ?

Peter

2006\01\09@062123 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The Thermite like reaction is because the oxides bound in the
>materials of the battery form a redux reaction in which they
>reduce from one material (caused by heat) and bind with other
>ones causing greater heat this proces is self sustained,
>exotherm, and needs no Oxigen. Any CO2 would be ineffective
>unless you could cool the whole thing with liquid co2.

For this reason I would doubt that CO2 is the right method for attempting to
extinguish it. The heat would get high enough to split the CO2, helping fuel
the fire.

A non oxygen containing extinguisher would probably be required.

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