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'[OT]Would a recent IT graduate be cabable of all t'
2009\07\01@065601 by cdb

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This is a short term contract position, and after saying they are
looking for a recent graduate, which I assume means up to 2 years
after graduating, they then go on to say -

The requirements are:
Knowledge of Networking
Excellent in Troubleshooting
Excellent customer relationship skills and service orientation
Excellent teamwork skills
Willingness to work in shifts

Profound technical background in Telecommunications / IT, including:
Unix/Linux - advantage
Knowledge of Informix, Oracle databases - advantage
Knowledge of telephony, CCS, signalling - advantage
Familiarity with SUN and Digital UNIX – advantage

I accept that within two years the first section is feasible, but the
second section, would a IT student even graduate with an in depth
knowledge of telephony signalling etc?

The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K

Colin
--
cdb,  on 1/07/2009


2009\07\01@072535 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I accept that within two years the first section is feasible, but the
>second section, would a IT student even graduate with an in depth
>knowledge of telephony signalling etc?

I doubt they would have "profound knowledge" of much of that, although they
may well have a pretty good knowledge of the *nix world.

>The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K

They really are looking for someone straight out of college then ...

2009\07\01@075612 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

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2009/7/1 cdb <spam_OUTcolinTakeThisOuTspambtech-online.co.uk>:

> The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K

Per year?


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\07\01@075635 by Tamas Rudnai

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2009/7/1 cdb <.....colinKILLspamspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk>

>  This is a short term contract position, and after saying they are
> looking for a recent graduate, which I assume means up to 2 years
> after graduating, they then go on to say -


Many students nowadays have jobs or make a pause for one or two years to
collect some money to continue their studies. We also have few associates
like this and they are actually good.

Tamas

2009\07\01@082122 by Alan B. Pearce

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>> The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K
>
>Per year?

yes, that would be p.a.

2009\07\01@101436 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 20:55 +1000, cdb wrote:
{Quote hidden}

For me, and for many other grads, I gathered relevant experience BEFORE
graduating, both with summer jobs and my co-op term. This is a good idea
for ANY student. Just think, a whole bunch of you will be graduating at
the same time, doesn't it seem like a good idea to have some relevant
experience before your graduation day?

So, my answer to you is yes, a new grad could easily fill those
requirements. Telecom wasn't my area, so if you replace that with say
prototype electronics design or something like that I would have been a
perfect match for that job the day I graduated.

TTYL

2009\07\01@101941 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 20:55 +1000, cdb wrote:
> The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K

As for the pay, I'm not sure what you'd expect for a recent grad
position. While it's hard to translate pay figures across borders, to me
$30k CND is low, but not that low (plus we're taxed pretty heavily in
Canada). Chances are this is sort of a "probation" pay, assuming good
work is done I'm sure after a few months the pay will increase (that's
usually how it's done here).

TTYL

2009\07\01@152458 by Funny NYPD

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LOL. 30K/year is not so low in Canada.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com
http://www.AuElectronics.com/products
http://augroups.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Herbert Graf <hkgrafspamKILLspamgmail.com>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 10:19:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]Would a recent IT graduate be cabable of all this?

On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 20:55 +1000, cdb wrote:
> The pay is crap by the way - NZ$40K = AU$31.7 = GBP15K

As for the pay, I'm not sure what you'd expect for a recent grad
position. While it's hard to translate pay figures across borders, to me
$30k CND is low, but not that low (plus we're taxed pretty heavily in
Canada). Chances are this is sort of a "probation" pay, assuming good
work is done I'm sure after a few months the pay will increase (that's
usually how it's done here).

TTYL

2009\07\02@221548 by Nathan House

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Hmm... And here I was hoping to make 80k when I graduate from university.

Maybe our economies will improve, a lot, in four years? :-)

2009\07\03@024856 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Nathan House<EraseMEnathanpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm... And here I was hoping to make 80k when I graduate from university.
>
> Maybe our economies will improve, a lot, in four years? :-)

Where are you located? And what is the unit of the 80k you want to make? ;-)

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\07\03@030308 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Funny NYPD<funnynypdspamspam_OUTyahoo.com> wrote:
> LOL. 30K CAD/year is not so low in Canada.
>

That is what I hear as well. Fresh graduate here in Singapore
would expect similar salary (36k SGD/year). The tax is relatively
low here in Singapore for fresh graduates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Singapore

>From xe.com as of today (2009.07.03).
1 USD = 1.15 CAD
1 USD = 1.45 SGD
1 USD = 0.71 EUR
1 USD = 1.58 NZD
1 USD =1.25 AUD
1 USD = 0.61 GBP

I believe many areas of US would expect higher salary (50K US
per year?). Some part of Europe (eg: Germany) would expect
similar salary to US (or slightly higher).

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\07\03@032541 by Tamas Rudnai

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As far as I know here in Ireland the graduate's salary is around €30k while
in the UK it starts from around £22k. Euro and Sterling is a bit stronger
than USD so it seems that the salary here is high, but also the living costs
are quite high. Not sure the taxes in the UK at the moment but here in
Ireland they just increased recently due to the recession -- I think UK
still has the lower VAT till the end of this year? It is quite common that a
graduate lives in a shared house -- is it the same in other places?

Tamas


On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Xiaofan Chen <@spam@xiaofancKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>

2009\07\03@035541 by Vitaliy

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Raising taxes during a recession is considered by economists to be a Very
Bad Idea, because it creates the inevitable deadweight loss (i.e., makes the
recession worse). With all other options exhausted, printing more money or
borrowing are lesser evils.

"It is quite common that a
graduate lives in a shared house -- is it the same in other places?"

One of my cousins did that for one year after graduation, as did one of my
friends.

Vitaliy



{Original Message removed}

2009\07\03@035703 by Vitaliy

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Nathan House wrote:
> Hmm... And here I was hoping to make 80k when I graduate from university.
>
> Maybe our economies will improve, a lot, in four years? :-)

Your best bet is to try to improve your personal economy. :-)

2009\07\03@082440 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Vitaliy wrote:

> Raising taxes during a recession is considered by economists to be a
> Very Bad Idea, because it creates the inevitable deadweight loss
> (i.e., makes the recession worse). With all other options exhausted,
> printing more money or borrowing are lesser evils.

Ah... the economists :)  If only there was ever a time considered
"non-recession" when that borrowed money is paid back. I think I've
never seen that, which makes this approach a little less ... how do I
say ... "sustainable" maybe? This approach may look good "on paper", but
only if you forget about the small details along the road (bridges etc.
:)

Gerhard

2009\07\03@090318 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Vitaliy <RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspammaksimov.org> wrote:

> Raising taxes during a recession is considered by economists to be a Very
> Bad Idea, because it creates the inevitable deadweight loss (i.e., makes
> the
> recession worse). With all other options exhausted, printing more money or
> borrowing are lesser evils.


If you were thinking to try to become the financial minister here in Ireland
on the following election then you have already got one vote :-)

Tamas

2009\07\03@100147 by Nathan House

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>Where are you located? And what is the unit of the 80k you want to make?
;-)

In the United States, and the 80k would be USD. From what I've read, I was
thinking 60-80k was the average starting salary for computer engineers in
the U.S.?

2009\07\03@112847 by Alex Harford

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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Nathan House<spamBeGonenathanpiclistspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
>>Where are you located? And what is the unit of the 80k you want to make?
> ;-)
>
> In the United States, and the 80k would be USD. From what I've read, I was
> thinking 60-80k was the average starting salary for computer engineers in
> the U.S.?

Here in BC, APEG (the professional engineering organization) does a
regular salary survey, and typical graduates make $50k CAD in the
first few years after graduation.  It depends on the cost of living in
your area, but I would be very surprised at a new grad making $80k.

Alex

2009\07\03@122443 by M.L.

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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Nathan House<TakeThisOuTnathanpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
>>Where are you located? And what is the unit of the 80k you want to make?
> ;-)
>
> In the United States, and the 80k would be USD. From what I've read, I was
> thinking 60-80k was the average starting salary for computer engineers in
> the U.S.?

80k starting salary? Who told you that? Even in the best job markets
no EE/CE starts out at 80k unless (possibly) they have a PhD.
-
Martin

2009\07\03@124401 by Nathan House

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>80k starting salary? Who told you that? Even in the best job markets
>no EE/CE starts out at 80k unless (possibly) they have a PhD.
Check out these:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm

2009\07\03@125213 by Sean Breheny

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Hi Nathan,

It looks to me like those pages estimate about $55K USD starting
salary for someone with a BS degree.

Also, some of that data is from 2006 when the economy was considerably better.

Sean


On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Nathan House<RemoveMEnathanpiclistspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
>>80k starting salary? Who told you that? Even in the best job markets
>>no EE/CE starts out at 80k unless (possibly) they have a PhD.
> Check out these:
>
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm
> -

2009\07\03@125601 by Sean Breheny

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Another thing, cost of living causes a BIG variation in starting
salary. When I was last looking for a job, my offers for an EE
position ranged from $35K USD to $62K USD. When ranked in order of
size of the city where they were located, it lined up exactly with the
magnitude of the salary. I went with the highest one (although the
main factor was that that job was also the most interesting), and the
first year I had a substantial raise, but since then raises have been
minimal or non-existent, largely due to the economy. I don't know what
we are presently offering fresh-outs.

Sean


On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Nathan House<nathanpiclistEraseMEspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
>>80k starting salary? Who told you that? Even in the best job markets
>>no EE/CE starts out at 80k unless (possibly) they have a PhD.
> Check out these:
>
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm
> -

2009\07\03@130052 by Nathan House

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True. To be honest I didn't really read through those pages thoroughly, I
just found them through a quick google search on computer engineering
salaries. I suppose starting salaries also depend on what company you get
hired for, if you're specialized in some "niche" where there aren't many
people with your talents, your portfolio, references, et cetera.

2009\07\03@131532 by Benjamin Grant

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I mean honestly, to whoever posted the desire to make 80k out of college...
many of my friends graduating from Duke BME are making 60, 70K.. and such
specific skills are hardly a requirement. Typically, some one who knows how
to learn on the job is sought at the big engineering firms, and a good
working knowledge of engineering as well as work ethic are encouraged. I am
certainly not making anything close to that at graduate school.. closer to
the uk 15 k posted here... but at least i'm still learning

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Nathan House <EraseMEnathanpiclistspamgmail.com>wrote:

> True. To be honest I didn't really read through those pages thoroughly, I
> just found them through a quick google search on computer engineering
> salaries. I suppose starting salaries also depend on what company you get
> hired for, if you're specialized in some "niche" where there aren't many
> people with your talents, your portfolio, references, et cetera.
> -

2009\07\06@144441 by Herbert Graf

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On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 09:01 -0500, Nathan House wrote:
> >Where are you located? And what is the unit of the 80k you want to make?
> ;-)
>
> In the United States, and the 80k would be USD. From what I've read, I was
> thinking 60-80k was the average starting salary for computer engineers in
> the U.S.?

You are perhaps generalizing too much. A major factor for starting
salary is WHERE you are, a starting salary in silicon valley is likely
going to be higher then one in Fargo.

That said, I'd say 60k is the upper end for starting salary in most
areas, expect something in the 50s, even lower in some areas.

And remember, for many jobs the initial salary is more like a
"probationary" salary at the beginning, it usually goes up to a more
"normal" starting salary as long as you perform well.

TTYL

2009\07\06@144813 by Herbert Graf

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On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 11:44 -0500, Nathan House wrote:
> >80k starting salary? Who told you that? Even in the best job markets
> >no EE/CE starts out at 80k unless (possibly) they have a PhD.
> Check out these:
>
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm

I'm seeing an average starting salary of 56k according to that page,
which is pretty much what I expected.

Remember too this is AVERAGE, again, depending on where you are you may
get quite a bit less.

And finally, these numbers come from a "boom" time, the world is very
different right now.

TTYL

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