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'[OT]Windows email reader?'
2010\06\11@090913 by John Ferrell

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I have a very large accumulation of emails in OutLook Express, several Gigabytes.
I want to move to Win 7, OE is no longer available there.
I need to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE files for future reference.

Google IS NOT MY FRIEND when I need a short, concise answer. It sometimes gives me way too much information to process!

I have not investigated many choices at this point but I am considering Thunderbird.

I receive several hundred emails per day and I like it that way.
I use many email folders and many message rules.
Yes, I lead a very cluttered life and I like it.

Recommendations, warnings and pointers to links are preferred but scolding for getting myself into this situation will be cheerfully acknowledged.

If you feel the need to rant about my request, my IQ or whatever, please feel to do so. It is OK to unload your frustrations, I can handle it...

TIA,

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson

2010\06\11@092436 by enkitec

picon face

    Thunderbird gets my vote.

    MJ


On 11-Jun-10 10:08, John Ferrell wrote:
> I need to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE files for future reference.
>    

2010\06\11@093403 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
John Ferrell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thunderbird will import Eudora, Outlook, Outlook Express, etc etc. etc.

I have many rules and several 100 emails a day and all email since 2002
in it.
Earlier emails are archived.
I have it set never to load remote HTML and Never to acknowledge
receipts so that spammers can't verify the email works.
Supports RSS and Newsgroups also
I've used it with local files and also in the past set it up using only
server filespace, to work on any computer I login on that authenticates
with server,  inc  Linux as well as Windows without MS' poxy broken
"Roaming profile" nonsense.

The search works OK too. I'm on 2.x rather than 3.x, but I may update
shortly on the upcoming shortly to be released version.

2010\06\11@093628 by Oli Glaser

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--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Ferrell" <spam_OUTjferrell13TakeThisOuTspamtriad.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:08 PM
To: <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>
Subject: [OT]Windows email reader?

{Quote hidden}

I'm no connoisseur of e-mail clients, but I've just changed over from OE to
Windows Live Mail pretty painlessly (admittedly I have not quite as many old
mails as you, "only" about 500MB). I exported/imported all my old mail into
storage folders, so I can get to quickly when needed. Also does feeds,
calender, newsgroups, and has a few other added/improved features from OE.






2010\06\11@094253 by RussellMc

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Der Jon.

My good friend Gargoyle said that silly old cluttered John (I resemble
that) was asking questions but could not  make himself  clear so could I
help. tell it what he was saying. I suggested that rearranging and trimming
his question to  something like:

   I want to move emails from OutLook Express to Win 7 import  OE files

may do the trick. Or not.

Gargoyle said wot about (hit 1), which lacketh in fine detail but suggests
that the path is worthwhile, is not discontinuous, and leadeth at the last
to safe harbour":

"
[Solved] Best replacement for *Outlook Express* in *Win 7* (64bit
*...*<www.tomshardware.com/forum/1763-63-best-replacement-outlook-express-64bit>
"

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1763-63-best-replacement-outlook-express-64bit

Best answer from
sminlal<www.tomshardware.com/forum/1763-63-best-replacement-outlook-express-64bit#t13132>
I've used Outlook Express on my home system for many years and it worked
just fine for me. The lack of it in Windows 7 annoyed me because it meant I
had to spend time researching and testing alternatives.

I settled on Thunderbird. I'm currently running 2.0.0.23 on 64-bit Win7 RC
Build 7100. It works perfectly well for me - I have multiple e-mail accounts
which I'm able to access through one Thunderbird profile. Thunderbird gives
you a choice as to whether you want to receive mail from each account into
separate inboxes or into a common inbox (I use the latter). It's able to do
everything that I did under Outlook Express and the learning curve was very
minor.

The most difficult part was migrating my mailboxes full of existing e-mails
(some going back over a decade), and that's because many of mine are
hierarchically organized. The hierarchy was not preserved and so I had to
manually move folders around in order to reproduce the same organization I
had in OE. Once that was done, though, it was smooth sailing.

_______

hIT 2 LOOKeD USEFUL:

http://www.windowskb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/outlook/10180/importing-OE-folders-dbx-emails-message-rules-into-Windows-7

And thee third like unto it (ie not perhaps eactly what's asked but useful
notwithstanding).

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Import-messages-into-Windows-Mail-from-Outlook-Express

The next quite a few also looked surprisingly well focused on the question.

______________

Conclusions:

1.  Asking Gargoyle

   I want to move emails from OutLook Express to Win 7 import  OE files

may be useful..

2.  Your original thought seemed on target.


                     Russell


            to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE
files for future reference.

{Quote hidden}

> -

2010\06\11@095732 by mcd

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> I receive several hundred emails per day and I like it that way.
> I use many email folders and many message rules.

The business of moving my set of rules was very frustrating, and kept me
on OE for far too long.

While not specifically an email client, one of the things that has worked
well for me is to run an IMAP server on my LAN.  My mail is periodically
grabbed from my ISP, and the message rules, spam filtering, virus checker,
etc all run on the server.

Now, ALL my email is available in a consistent set of folders etc. from
any client, even my phone, and since the sorting, virus checking etc. is
done back on the server, opening up the email client is faster.

Another big advantage is that exporting my email from OE was a real
challenge.  The export to Outlook isn't great, and to most other clients,
nonexistent.  By putting up an IMAP server, then simply dragging messages
from my Outlook Express folders to the IMAP folders within Outlook
Express, all my emails were now available, and better yet, in a
non-proprietary format.

Most IMAP servers use one of two standard formats, and if everything else
fails, my old email is readable with a text editor.  I really hated the OE
proprietary format, especially early on when OE went to a new,
non-compatible format every few years.  That finally stopped, but it
bugged me to have my email locked up by M$.  And the earlier formats were
at least documented, in fact, I had written programs to pull off my old
emails into text files for archiving.  Never did find documentation on the
current format.

Once you have you mail off on an IMAP server, if you try Thunderbird and
don't like it, you can move to another client with no hassle; all your
email is still there, you rules for sorting into folders are unchanged,
life is good.  And you didn't loose any of your old emails in the process.

Oh yeah, I'm currently using Evolution; not sure I'd recommend it.  I'll
probably go to Thunderbird when I find one of them round tuit thingies.

--McD


2010\06\11@095800 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 11/6/2010 10:33, Michael Watterson escreveu:
> Thunderbird will import Eudora, Outlook, Outlook Express, etc etc. etc.
>  

I use Thunderbird also, very good.


[snip]

> The search works OK too. I'm on 2.x rather than 3.x, but I may update
> shortly on the upcoming shortly to be released version.
>  

Better stay with the 2.x. Thunderbird 3.x is (much) slower, sometimes
hang for several seconds (thread issue I think) and sometimes complains
of "Folder truncation" or the like.


Best regards,

Isaac

__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos  de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/

2010\06\11@104025 by Marechiare

picon face
John Ferrell wrote:
> I need to move to an email program that will allow me to
> import the OE files for future reference.

www.codeproject.com/KB/recipes/DBXParser.aspx
---
DBX Parser

The DBXParser can read an Outlook Express DBX file, and extract the
raw content (MIME) to EML file, then you can use MIME parsers to get
the actual subject body and attachments. It's the first and only (as
far as Google tells) pure C# source code that provides simple methods
to read and extract, free, pure, without over-headed third-party DLLs.
;)
---

2010\06\11@104858 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ferrell" <jferrell13spamKILLspamtriad.rr.com>
To: <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: [OT]Windows email reader?


>I have a very large accumulation of emails in OutLook Express, several
>Gigabytes.
> I want to move to Win 7, OE is no longer available there.
> I need to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE
> files for future reference.

Isn't 'WinMail' available in Windows 7. That is the replacement for OE in
Vista.

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


2010\06\11@111530 by Olin Lathrop

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John Ferrell wrote:
> If you feel the need to rant about my request, my IQ or whatever,
> please feel to do so.

Doh!  It's no fun when you say it's OK.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2010\06\11@111701 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
Isaac Marino Bavaresco wrote:
>
> Better stay with the 2.x. Thunderbird 3.x is (much) slower, sometimes
> hang for several seconds (thread issue I think) and sometimes complains
> of "Folder truncation" or the like.
>
>  
Thanks, that's why I have stayed with 2.x
But I will see what reports are like on the new version when it arrives
shortly. FF3.6x greatly better than FF3.0x

2010\06\11@113324 by Bob Ammerman

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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Ferrell" <EraseMEjferrell13spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTtriad.rr.com>
> To: <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:08 AM
> Subject: [OT]Windows email reader?
>
>
>>I have a very large accumulation of emails in OutLook Express, several
>>Gigabytes.
>> I want to move to Win 7, OE is no longer available there.
>> I need to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE
>> files for future reference.
>
> Isn't 'WinMail' available in Windows 7. That is the replacement for OE in
> Vista.
>
> -- Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems

Answering my own question:

Windows Mail (WinMail) is not available in Windows 7. Windows Live Mail is
the alternative and apparently it sucks!

Why can't Microsoft just leave things alone once in a while.

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2010\06\11@121546 by Adam Field

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> Better stay with the 2.x. Thunderbird 3.x is (much) slower, sometimes
> hang for several seconds (thread issue I think) and sometimes complains
> of "Folder truncation" or the like.
>

I have found the folder truncation error was due to AVG anti-virus
scanning the files while Thunderbird was trying to manipulate them. I
really like the search functionality in Thunderbird 3 and haven't run
into performance issues as of yet.

2010\06\11@175039 by Josh Koffman

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On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:08 AM, John Ferrell <@spam@jferrell13KILLspamspamtriad.rr.com> wrote:
> I have a very large accumulation of emails in OutLook Express, several Gigabytes.
> I want to move to Win 7, OE is no longer available there.

This is a bit clunky, but would work. Depending on the version of Win7
you're running, you can download a specific version of VirtualPC
called "Windows XP Mode" which runs Windows XP as a virtual machine.
It's free, and would let you run OE I would guess. The downside is
that you'd have to have the virtual machine running whenever you
wanted to check email. Still, it may buy you some time to try out a
few different Win7 native applications without having to run two
computers.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2010\06\11@180040 by Rolf

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face
Another 2 votes for Thunderbird, one from work and one from home.

At home I have always used a 'home server' with IMAP installed and it
centralizes my various mail accounts and works sweetly. I can then use
any mail client anywhere to access it. Thunderbird 3 has worked well for
me in terms of indexing and displaying the mail.

At work I use the IMAP interface to the Exchange server. I use local
folders to manage my (large) mail account (bcause my on-server quota is
smallish). I have found that when I migrated from a windows to linux
desktop machine, that the best way to migrate the e-mail messages was to
use Exchange to load the messages from the outlook client on to the IMAP
server, and then re-download them in to the local folders on the Linux
thunderbird client. I never got the 'tools' to reliably read the Outlook
express files (they are password protected somehow).

So, two thumbs up for thunderbird.

Setting up the rules again was a bit of a pain, but I only have a couple
of dozen at work and home is all on the server (including spamassassing
for dealing with spam, and other rules for mailinglists, etc).

I upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0.4 recently from 2.x something (about a
week ago). I have had no problems at all, other than adjusting to some
minor interface changes, which, I think, are in fact improvements.

Rolf

On 11/06/2010 9:57 AM, KILLspammcdKILLspamspamis-sixsigma.com wrote:
>> I receive several hundred emails per day and I like it that way.
>> I use many email folders and many message rules.
>>      
> The business of moving my set of rules was very frustrating, and kept me
> on OE for far too long.
>
>    
snip
{Quote hidden}

2010\06\11@181546 by Bob Blick

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On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:00:00 -0400, "Rolf" said:

> I upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0.4 recently from 2.x something (about a
> week ago). I have had no problems at all, other than adjusting to some
> minor interface changes, which, I think, are in fact improvements.

I have been unable to fix a couple of bugs on my wife's computer since
going from vers 2.x to 3.x a few weeks ago. Deleting or moving an email
with a large attachment takes 10 seconds or more (and it's not an IMAP
account), and at least every other day it'll turn the preview pane on.
This isn't a standard installation, though, she has her mail stored on a
very fast NAS. But after casting all the spells found on the net I have
given up on trying to fix it and I'll be switching it back to the final
2.x version.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders
                         wherever you are

2010\06\11@181900 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
enkitec@gmail.com ha scritto:
>      Thunderbird gets my vote.


mine too :)
file format compatible with NEtscape mail that I've been using since
1995; moved to TB some 3 years ago

--

Ciao, Dario
--
Cyberdyne

2010\06\11@183337 by cdb
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face
I use Pocomail, it will import OE and Outlook emails.

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinTakeThisOuTspambtech-online.co.uk on 12/06/2010

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359








2010\06\11@190243 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 11/6/2010 19:15, Bob Blick escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

Another long lasting (and very annoying) bug is the corruption of the
last annexed JPG file.

Isaac

__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos  de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/

2010\06\12@052806 by Oli Glaser

flavicon
face
>Windows Live Mail is
>the alternative and apparently it sucks!

I'd be interested to hear why it has got such a bad press. I'm using it now
(from OE, then Windows Mail) and the first impressions are not too bad - I
quite like it. Then again I have never tried Thunderbird and my requirements
are *reasonably* simple compared to the OPs.


2010\06\13@092906 by John Ferrell

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I reached the ripe old age of 70 in April.
I decided it was a milestone in my life where I should give some serious
consideration to how I want
to live my remaining life. I am setting some guidelines that I hope will
optimize the use of whatever life remains.

One of the rules that came to me early is that I will not squander time
addressing things that I find irrelevant.
OTH, if I can be of assistance to any one or any thing along the way I will
do what I can. That includes
listening to to those who need to vent.

Some people tend to express them selves in an adversarial manner. I like to
think I can learn and
communicate with most people. The greater problem is getting a dialog
started! Adversarial is OK
with me...

Another important rule is not to buy into life time warranties, better to
hold out for 20 years.
Live long and Prosper...

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
{Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@093419 by John Ferrell

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I appreciate your answers but I don't have the background to grasp it all at
this time. Probably going with Thunderbird and hope for an easy transition.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
{Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@093632 by John Ferrell

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I don't understand this, but I hope I don't uncover the problem...

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
{Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@100350 by John Ferrell

face
flavicon
face
Based on this and the other answers, I plan to go Thunderbird.
I will first make the transition on an XP Pro machine with a tentative plan
to move to the Win 7 machine later.

The project that was driving the move to Win 7 has become lower priority
with some overwhelming technical issues. I will be selective in what
applications I move to the new machine.

If anyone is interested, the project was to install and operate two
independent sound cards on the same system for a single Amateur Radio
Application. Neither would be operating in the manner intended for sound
cards. One would be converting speech to text which is encoded to the BPSK31
scheme for digital radio transmission. The other sound card is used to
decode the BPSK31 signal for text display from the incoming radio signal.
The actual communication can be totally silent.

It is not something that has not been done. At least one other fellow has
achieved it and I was impressed by my contact with him. It just involves a
bit of interfacing (mainly software) and it has my attention.

If you are curious, download WINPSK and check out his website. I think his
last name is Martinez. He originated the technology and it is the simplest
route for learning.

BTW, I consider myself a Heavy User of Google and my criticism simply
reflects the frequent frustrations due to my personal shortcomings.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
{Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@104310 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
John Ferrell wrote:
> Based on this and the other answers, I plan to go Thunderbird.
> I will first make the transition on an XP Pro machine with a tentative plan
> to move to the Win 7 machine later.
>
> The project that was driving the move to Win 7 has become lower priority
> with some overwhelming technical issues. I will be selective in what
> applications I move to the new machine.
>
> If anyone is interested, the project was to install and operate two
> independent sound cards on the same system for a single Amateur Radio
> Application. Neither would be operating in the manner intended for sound
> cards. One would be converting speech to text which is encoded to the BPSK31
> scheme for digital radio transmission. The other sound card is used to
> decode the BPSK31 signal for text display from the incoming radio signal.
> The actual communication can be totally silent.
>  
I have had 3 sound cards and virtual audio cable on XP.
1 x USB, 1 x integrated and 1 x PCI card.

I've used one sound card for I & Q of direct conversion/ zero IF radio
on 7MHz with various SDR SW
2nd sound card for speaker/mic
VAG (virtual Audio Cable) to connect audio of  SDR in SSB mode to input
of MIXW in SSTV, PSK31, Hellscriber, RTTY and CW decoder/encoder modes.
Of course many  of the PC  SDR  now do BPSK31 built in.

Unless your application needs more than 2Gbyte RAM there is no advantage
and lots of disadvantages of Win7 or 64bit version of any Windows
compared to 32 bit XP.

Speech to Text hasn't much improved in over 10 years. With a Noise
cancelling headset/boom mic it works quite well on XP.

A lot of  Radio Software for XP seems to have problems with Vista and Win7.

I also still use some DOS based SW on XP (some in DOSBOX rather than NTVDM).

my "Shack" EI9FEB, previously GI8JTR
http://www.wattystuff.net/amateur/the-shack/
latest aerial additions are the two lower ones here
http://www.irishwattystuff.com/images/array1.png

I also maintain http://www.techtir.ie
This is another Radio project using PIC
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003355
I'm planning on doing an ARM + touchscreen version that can do BPSK31,
RTTY, SSTV etc without a laptop.

2010\06\13@111620 by PICdude

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If transistioning email is such a problem, you should be able to  
choose a reader with a popular/standard format (maildir, mbox, etc)  
and any email client should be able to read that if you change later.  
IIRC Thunderbird uses mbox, so if you take the time to set it up and  
find you don't like it, then it should be very easy to try another  
mbox-based client.




Quoting John Ferrell <spamBeGonejferrell13spamBeGonespamtriad.rr.com>:

> I don't understand this, but I hope I don't uncover the problem...
>
> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>
> When injustice becomes law,
>   Resistance becomes DUTY.
>      Thomas Jefferson
> {Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@171626 by John Ferrell

face
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RE: "you should be able to  
choose a reader with a popular/standard format (maildir, mbox, etc)  
and any email client "

I was not aware of any standard format.
The message format in OE seemed to be an undocumented kludge.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
{Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@173606 by PICdude

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<sarcasm>Surprise, surprise!</sarcasm>  Microsoft will always do their  
own proprietary thing, but once you convert from that, there will be  
some standards.  And I'm fairly sure there are converters that do a  
decent job of migrating your old OE files to one of the standards.  
Last time I did this was probably 5+ years ago.

Cheers,
-Neil.



Quoting John Ferrell <TakeThisOuTjferrell13EraseMEspamspam_OUTtriad.rr.com>:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2010\06\13@174024 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 13, 2010, at 2:15 PM, John Ferrell wrote:

>> "you should be able to choose a reader with a popular/standard  
>> format (maildir, mbox, etc) and any email client "

> I was not aware of any standard format.

"Standard" is probably too strong a word.   There are several formats  
(generally very simple) that originated in unix open source (before  
they called it that) that have been around for 25+ years now, and are  
widely supported even by modern mail readers.  Many have the  
additional feature (as far as I'm concerned) of being easily read by a  
simple ascii editor...  (as long as the message itself was ascii, of  
course.  Sigh.)

> The message format in OE seemed to be an undocumented kludge.

"undocumented" being the key problem...

In any case, "a reader with standard format" isn't the key problem  
once you have several gigabytes of mail that already exists in a  
proprietary format...

BillW

2010\06\13@174248 by John Ferrell

face
flavicon
face
I have a pair of ASUS A7N8 Mb's with AMD processors that have done what I
wanted to do since 2003. Unfortunately, the recommended speech recognition
software (Dragon Naturally Speaking 10) requires the SSE2 instruction set
which came in with the Pentium 4 hardware. Perhaps I can find a MB-CPU
replacement that will run the Dragon software and outflank the obstacles. I
also have high end Graphics cards that I would prefer to keep in use as
well.

I will try to stay up with your web sites.
I will study your Post thoroughly as well.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

When injustice becomes law,
 Resistance becomes DUTY.
    Thomas Jefferson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Watterson" <RemoveMEmikespamTakeThisOuTradioway.org>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistEraseMEspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]Windows email reader?



2010\06\14@070507 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
> I'm no connoisseur of e-mail clients, but I've just changed over from
OE
> to Windows Live Mail pretty painlessly (admittedly I have not quite as
many
> old mails as you, "only" about 500MB). I exported/imported all my old
mail
> into storage folders, so I can get to quickly when needed. Also does
feeds,
> calender, newsgroups, and has a few other added/improved features from
OE.

I did much swearing and cursing at Windows Live Mail. The package that
came with Vista was bad enough, but this is a backwards step, IMHO.
--
Scanned by iCritical.

2010\06\14@071506 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
> Isn't 'WinMail' available in Windows 7. That is the replacement for OE
> in
> Vista.

No, it becomes Windows Live Mail, which, to me anyway, is a backwards
step. OE had its faults, but it could be handled. WLM really wants you
to do things the Windows way, while they try and act like Google,
getting you to things their way.
--
Scanned by iCritical.

2010\06\14@153644 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Sat, 2010-06-12 at 00:18 +0200, Dario Greggio wrote:
> EraseMEenkitecspamgmail.com ha scritto:
> >      Thunderbird gets my vote.
>
>
> mine too :)
> file format compatible with NEtscape mail that I've been using since
> 1995; moved to TB some 3 years ago

Why does the file format matter?

Run an IMAP server, put all your mail there (most don't use a file
format, it's just plain text in each "folder"). Then you can switch
clients whenever you want, the "format" that your client uses then
becomes completely irrelevant.

Being an IMAP server means backups become trivial (i.e. a cron job), and
no matter which client device accesses your mailbox everything stays in
sync.

I run an IMAP server and it's made things so amazingly simple. I can
wipe my PC and start from scratch, enter a few details and boom, all my
mail, in all it's folders, done. I run an SSH tunnel to home from work
and have the exact same mailbox at work as I do at home.

If you need a local copy of your mail (i.e. flying to Europe) just copy
it in the client and then copy everything back when you get online
again.

Trust me, once you go IMAP, you won't go back.

TTYL

2010\06\15@091121 by John Ferrell

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I have made the move to Thunderbird...
Everything went fast and smooth. TB imported everything from OE except
the message filters which were long overdue for attention.
It still has the feel of OE but is much easier to get along with. The
menu options are there for learning mode but the hot-keys are also alive
and well.

It is what OE should have grown into.

I did the install to my primary system which is an older XP Pro system.
The jury is still out with the Win 7 system.
Win 7 looks like a winner but there are many minor issues to address.
The interim path will probably include an upgrade to the Xp Pro system.
Ideally, an MB/CPU that will support the SSE2 instructions, AGP8 Video,
DDR memory and at least 2 PCI slots. Also needs to be cheap! I have
seriously overspent the toy budget already!

Thanks for the help to all. I had been dreading this move for a long
time. Now I can get back to more interesting projects.

It is not the Internet that has my attention, it is all the valuable
friends that I have there...

John Ferrell, W8CCW

On 6/11/2010 9:08 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
> I have a very large accumulation of emails in OutLook Express, several Gigabytes.
> I want to move to Win 7, OE is no longer available there.
> I need to move to an email program that will allow me to import the OE files for future reference.
>
>    

2010\06\15@095954 by Michael Watterson

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John Ferrell wrote:
> The interim path will probably include an upgrade to the Xp Pro system.
> Ideally, an MB/CPU that will support the SSE2 instructions, AGP8 Video,
> DDR memory and at least 2 PCI slots. Also needs to be cheap! I have
> seriously overspent the toy budget already!
>  
Mmmm anything sensible will have the SSE2,
It's all DDR2/DDR3 etc probably
Graphics is all PCIexpress, very hard to find boards with AGP

2010\06\15@113204 by John Ferrell

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It may be that my Old Super Graphics functions are now included in
inexpensive hardware, the DDR2 memory I bought seemed to be a good value.

I am thinking about pulling the C: drive out of the XP PRO machine and
putting it in the new machine. I will have to consider the risks first...


On 6/15/2010 9:59 AM, Michael Watterson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
John Ferrell, W8CCW

2010\06\16@042450 by RussellMc

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> I am thinking about pulling the C: drive out of the XP PRO machine and
> putting it in the new machine. I will have to consider the risks first...

As a backup or a way of accessing its data - if it suits, probably no
problem (although, very occasionally you can get mysterious HDD
manufacturer A / HDD manufacturer B conflicts which don't obey
standard rules. Less common as everything asymptotes towards being
from manufacturer A anyway. .

As a boot drive, try hard not to do it..
Even starting it up on a new motherboard MAY cause problems (for quite
a wide range of values of may). Once you start loading drivers for the
new MB you MAY not be able to go back and you may find it doesn't go
'forward' enough to suit.

The cheapest SATA drives here are just over $NZ50 for 320 GB or about
$US35. A new boot drive is a worthwhile thing to overspend the toy
budget on. Chances are that it is > to >> the size of C now. And, if
you keep the old machine running it is available as backup, toy and
heater. (The last becoming increasingly important to avoid when you
don't want one).


      R

2010\06\16@043931 by Jake Anderson

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On 16/06/10 18:24, RussellMc wrote:
{Quote hidden}

if your going to move the "c" drive you should reset the IDE drivers to
default before you do it, otherwise you are 99% going to get a
bluescreen on bootup (inaccessable boot device).
reset the ide and you will have a better than even chance of getting it
running in a new machine (google knows about this).
you will need to use an activation when you do that though so if
re-installing is an option its probably the best option.

2010\06\16@051647 by Michael Watterson

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RussellMc wrote:
>> I am thinking about pulling the C: drive out of the XP PRO machine and
>> putting it in the new machine. I will have to consider the risks first...
>>    
>
> As a backup or a way of accessing its data - if it suits, probably no
> problem (although, very occasionally you can get mysterious HDD
> manufacturer A / HDD manufacturer B conflicts which don't obey
> standard rules. Less common as everything asymptotes towards being
> from manufacturer A anyway. .
>
> As a boot drive, try hard not to do it..
>  
Agreed.

All good points. You are asking for huge problems. Esp. going from pre
SSEE to P4 and post P4.
If it works it will work badly.
Leave existing PC 100% working and get a cheap keyboard/mouse/Screen
switch if you need both.

A new "PC" base unit is less than £250 with 1G to 2G RAM, Greater than
120G (possibly 500G) HDD, Integrated graphics better than your old
graphics, built in audio, 10/100/1000 Mbps ethernet, a load of USB2.0
sockets.  Just add OS, Screen and Keyboard. Even EXPENSIVE places like
Maplin have a £240 box with XP included
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=387481

Unless you want to do it for fun,  have a  lot of modern parts already
or  want  a specialist high  end  "box" self  build or a  new  
Motherboard makes no sense.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=387481

For Amateur  Radio etc there is no advantage and plenty of disadvantage
for Win7, at this stage even Ubuntu is looking better for Amateur Radio
use than Win7 (though still not as good as XP). MS Support for XP
service pack 3 will exist a long time yet. They claim they will stop
sales in October  and support for Service Pack 2 is about gone. Any XP
can be freely upgraded to SP3.

Using and upgrading NT systems since 1994. UNIX since 1986. Linux since
1999. DOS since 1981 and non-NT Windows since 1991.

You may have to go for 2x empty PCIe slots rather than PCI slots. More
expensive & "Server" type products may have PCI and PCIe slots. My AMD
64 has both, but at about 3 years old is obsolete.  It  was  hard to  
find even then (6 x PCI and 1 x PCIe).

2010\06\16@070647 by cdb

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:: if your going to move the "c" drive you should reset the IDE
:: drivers to
:: default before you do it, otherwise you are 99% going to get a
:: bluescreen on bootup (inaccessable boot device).

If this is just going to be an XP to XP move, then if you have the installation CD a repair install will install the correct drivers.

If this is going to be an XP to W7 install then O&O software in cahoots with LapLink have a program that will allow you to port your XP system to W7 including all your program files.

I'd join others in advising that making a complete disk image would be a DGI (damned good idea - oops $100 fine as of next month for saying that)- I of course would recommend Acronis for that - but then I have a non paying vested interest there. :)

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinEraseMEspamEraseMEbtech-online.co.uk on 16/06/2010

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2010\06\16@082952 by RussellMc

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> If this is just going to be an XP to XP move, then if you have the installation CD a repair install will install the correct drivers.

As long as you have NOT applied service packs (and maybe just not
applied certain updates).

A service-pack upgraded system may refuse to repair or reload from an
install CD (for almost all values of may :-( ).

You can, of course, slipstream an old install CD into a later
service-packed version. Hours of harmless fun :-)



                      R

2010\06\16@201507 by Jake Anderson

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On 16/06/10 22:29, RussellMc wrote:
>> If this is just going to be an XP to XP move, then if you have the installation CD a repair install will install the correct drivers.
>>      
> As long as you have NOT applied service packs (and maybe just not
> applied certain updates).
>
> A service-pack upgraded system may refuse to repair or reload from an
> install CD (for almost all values of may :-( ).
>
> You can, of course, slipstream an old install CD into a later
> service-packed version. Hours of harmless fun :-)
>
>
>
>                         R
>    
Repair install is a good way to screw a working system, use it only as a
last resort to get a system running long enough to wipe it and
re-install because it will be messed up.

If you reset the ide drivers you should get a booting system, it will
then need a bunch of drivers installed, generally it should work ok if
you get that far. I've done it on many an office machine for clients
when something blows up. You can use a bootcd (ubcd) to reset the
drivers when its in the new machine, which is handy for an unplanned
transition.

2010\06\16@230644 by John Ferrell

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As you say, All good points.
I will Keep the XPPro  machine as is and slowly move some tasks to the
Win7 machine.


On 6/16/2010 5:15 AM, Michael Watterson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
John Ferrell, W8CCW

2010\06\16@232905 by RussellMc

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XP machine can be networked and thus have files available.

If you use remote control software, such as one of the several
versions of VNC (free) you can access the whole machine from your Win
7 system - or from any other system if desired


      Russell

> As you say, All good points.
> I will Keep the XPPro  machine as is and slowly move some tasks to the
> Win7 machine.

2010\06\17@062829 by Oli Glaser

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--------------------------------------------------
From: "RussellMc" <RemoveMEapptechnzspam_OUTspamKILLspamgmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:28 AM
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspamspammit.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT]Windows email reader?

> XP machine can be networked and thus have files available.
>
> If you use remote control software, such as one of the several
> versions of VNC (free) you can access the whole machine from your Win
> 7 system - or from any other system if desired

I have an XP box with VNC tucked away in an under stairs cupboard that is
used as a kind of server, works well and is out of the way.


2010\06\17@183359 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 4:54 PM, rolf <EraseMErolfspamspamspamBeGonetuis.net> wrote:

> uptime
>  11:52:18 up 352 days, 18:22,  6 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.21
>

Wow, have you decide what cake you will buy for your server? :-)

Tamas



{Quote hidden}

2010\06\17@204050 by John Ferrell

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I am a VNC (Free) user. I operate my machines from a Laptop upstairs
with pretty good success. There was a period of time when health issues
kept me from using the stairs at all. Nearly all of my data is stored in
USB drives and the rest will move with a physical drive.

The Remote console as implemented in Win 7 seems better than the VNC on
XP now. I will investigate in hopes that the remote console in XP may
have been fixed since the last time I tried it.

I will not allow the running XP Pro machine to be compromised. Since I
have the Win 7 machine I will slowly bring up apps on it and relieve the
XP Pro of some of its duties. It may be my imagination, but it seems
that the whole machine seems faster with Outlook Express out of use.
Since it remains installed that must just be my imagination...

I keep 4 computers on a KVM switch and use 3 pretty actively. I felt
that disclosing the details of my "Kludge" would be both boring and
confusing.

It is a good time to be an old retired Techie with all of the gadgets
and information available. Especially if you have friends like you guys
to help guide you through the mine fields...

Thanks !

BTW, The health issues are all but gone, I feel great and I am able to
handle my life and help others!

On 6/16/2010 11:28 PM, RussellMc wrote:
> XP machine can be networked and thus have files available.
>
> If you use remote control software, such as one of the several
> versions of VNC (free) you can access the whole machine from your Win
> 7 system - or from any other system if desired
>
>
>         Russell

--
John Ferrell, W8CCW

2010\06\17@213534 by Rolf

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Hi Tamas.

Actually, the routine is that in the early 'summer' I spring-clean my
server, and I do have a new kernel that's waiting to be upgraded, so I
will need a re-boot for that. Also, I need to replace the UPS, it's been
active for 4 years, and although I test the system 'routinely' (every
couple of months I'm doing something in the house that needs the power
turned off...), I'm not sure how long I have left on the UPS battery...
It's time for a new one.

Maybe I can give my machine a physical clean-out too... Man it gets
dirty in the machine!

Also, I'm getting close to running out of comfortable disk space... 82%
on my one RAID volume... perhaps some new disks can be added at the same
time (but I feel embarrassed that I have 6.5TB of disk space on a home
server... do I really 'need' more?), I can't recall whether I have an
available slot for another drive.....

Time to start planning... thanks for the inspiration.

Rolf

On 17/06/2010 6:33 PM, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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