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'[OT] time for a new printer'
2006\07\31@092720 by alan smith

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Well my good ol HP 932C finally had a mechanical failure...little piece of plastic that holds a small steel roller broke so out came the little roller....not good.  I do have a spare but it has a bad interface board and no time to really rebuild from two old printers.
 
 So....I do like the fact I can refill my ink cart's, what printers out there now can still allow that...if any?  I have the occasional requirement to print photos, but most the time its just text stuff.  
 
 inkjet or laser also...comments?  I know Russel had some comments on printers some time ago, but I failed to keep any of the thread.

               
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2006\07\31@125910 by James Newtons Massmind

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Cannon. Not sure about re-filling the cartridges as we don't, but they last
a long time and cost less per page than other printers. Also: Canon printers
just work.

For Lasers, if you don't need speed, old HP printers are king. LaserJet 5 or
earlier.

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2006\07\31@144353 by Josh Koffman

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On 7/31/06, James Newtons Massmind <spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspammassmind.org> wrote:
> For Lasers, if you don't need speed, old HP printers are king. LaserJet 5 or
> earlier.

That depends on the kind of speed you want. My LaserJet 5si is pretty
fast, but it's considered a departmental printer and is about the size
of a small photocopier. I think it's rated for something like 200,000
pages a month! I think i've printed a few hundred in the year I've
owned it...

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\07\31@152847 by Harold Hallikainen

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> Cannon. Not sure about re-filling the cartridges as we don't, but they
> last
> a long time and cost less per page than other printers. Also: Canon
> printers
> just work.
>
> For Lasers, if you don't need speed, old HP printers are king. LaserJet 5
> or
> earlier.
>

Any suggestions for printers that can just be hung on a LAN and talked to
with CUPS out of Linux?

Harold


--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising
opportunities available!

2006\07\31@155246 by Josh Koffman

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> Any suggestions for printers that can just be hung on a LAN and talked to
> with CUPS out of Linux?

The CUPS website (http://www.cups.org/) has a section entitled
"Printer Drivers" which should give you some idea of which printers
_can_ be used. I'd then check out some reviews to see which _should_
be used.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\07\31@164608 by alan smith

picon face
My "wholesaler" say....HP8250  (which got pretty good reviews) is his choice, mainly because it is one of the few printers with a larger ink cart, and can be tricked into refills by pulling power before the carriage moves all the way over....
 
 so looks like thats what I will get since i need to do both color and b&w

Josh Koffman <.....joshybearKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
 > Any suggestions for printers that can just be hung on a LAN and talked to
> with CUPS out of Linux?

The CUPS website (http://www.cups.org/) has a section entitled
"Printer Drivers" which should give you some idea of which printers
_can_ be used. I'd then check out some reviews to see which _should_
be used.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
-Douglas Adams

2006\07\31@171914 by James Newtons Massmind

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> My "wholesaler" say....HP8250  (which got pretty good
> reviews) is his choice, mainly because it is one of the few
> printers with a larger ink cart, and can be tricked into
> refills by pulling power before the carriage moves all the
> way over....
>    
>   so looks like thats what I will get since i need to do both
> color and b&w

Watch out for the drivers. HP has horrible drivers. But if you are using
*nix and CUPS I guess this doesn't really affect you.

---
James.


2006\07\31@184537 by Rolf

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>> Cannon. Not sure about re-filling the cartridges as we don't, but they
>> last
>> a long time and cost less per page than other printers. Also: Canon
>> printers
>> just work.
>>
>> For Lasers, if you don't need speed, old HP printers are king. LaserJet 5
>> or
>> earlier.
>>
>>    
>
> Any suggestions for printers that can just be hung on a LAN and talked to
> with CUPS out of Linux?
>
> Harold
>
>
>  
I am very very happy with my brother HL-2070N It has a slightly bigger
brother that does full-duplex printing. This is perfect for my home
office. Networked, web-based config/monitoring, and e-mail status
messages, etc. Talks a bunch of network protocols including the basic
windows print-server style which CUPS is always happy with. Is PCL
compliant, etc. Not postscript.

Rolf


'[OT] time for a new printer'
2006\08\01@111814 by Howard Winter
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flavicon
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James,

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:59:04 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> Cannon. Not sure about re-filling the cartridges as we don't, but they last
> a long time and cost less per page than other printers. Also: Canon printers
> just work.

I'll drink to that!  :-)  I have a Canon ip4000, which has 5 ink cartridges which you replace individually, rather than having to ditch a
3-colour cartridge when the first colour runs out.  It does mean it takes half an hour to get it working from out of the box, with all
those cartridges (and the separate head) and other parts to unwrap and install, but you only do that once!

And it has nice features like a CD tray so you can print directly onto those, and two paper sources (flat underneath and downwards into
the top-rear) so you can have ordinary stationery always present, and insert special paper like labels, card, headed paper, whatever,
without removing it.  and it has USB and Parallel interfaces, which it very handy.  Sadly it's been superceded by the ip4200, which I
believe has dropped a couple of the nice-to-have features, perhaps to save costs :(

I used to use HP, but I have switched my allegiance (I believe Russell has rather gone off HP too ;-)

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\08\01@112913 by Howard Winter

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picon face
Josh,

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:43:53 -0400, Josh Koffman wrote:

> On 7/31/06, James Newtons Massmind <jamesnewtonspamKILLspammassmind.org> wrote:
> > For Lasers, if you don't need speed, old HP printers are king. LaserJet 5 or
> > earlier.
>
> That depends on the kind of speed you want. My LaserJet 5si is pretty
> fast, but it's considered a departmental printer and is about the size
> of a small photocopier. I think it's rated for something like 200,000
> pages a month! I think i've printed a few hundred in the year I've
> owned it...

Indeed, we had those in an office of about thirty people, and there was never more than a few seconds to wait for your stuff.

But of a similar (maybe slightly later) vintage are the Laserjet 4000 series.  These are small-office machines, about an 18" (500mm) cube
in size and they are rated at something like 30,000 pages a month.  There's a major overhaul due at about 100,000 pages, but the one I
bought second-hand only had about 15,000 on the clock!  It's still on the first toner cartridge I put in it, and it's excellent in quality
and speed.  It's the model 4050DTN which has a duplexer ("D"), twin large-capacity paper-trays ("T") and a network card ("N").  It was
also very cheap compared to its new price - about 20% of it, I think.  

Incidentally, having got used to having a duplexer, I would never go back to single-sided printing - the saving in paper alone, not to
mention space storing it, makes it well worth having.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\08\01@132213 by John J. McDonough

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>   So....I do like the fact I can refill my ink cart's, what
> printers out there now can still allow that...if any?  I have
> the occasional requirement to print photos, but most the time
> its just text stuff.

I have an HP PSC2510 which is way overkill for a printer (who needs a
wireless printer, anyway?), but the cartridges are pretty easy to refill.  I
don't recall the 9xx's all that well, but I seem to remember that they were
a real pain to refill.  This printer uses the 56/57/58 cartridges, which are
trivially simple to refill.

However, HP has gotten really weird with their software, so if your intent
is to run the printer from Windows, I'd stay away from HP.  The third party
Linux drivers are just fine, though, and the printer prints great quality,
plus I broke down and bought the duplexer which, in my mind, is a huge win.
Not that I'm all hung up about the paper cost, it's the space.  Two sided,
and sometimes 2 or 4 up, can make listings and datasheets take a lot less
file cabinet space.  Lots of HP printers have duplexers available, although
you usually can't get them at the local Wal-Mart.

However, if you are concerned about operating cost, a laser is a big win.  I
bought a cheap (Minolta) laser a couple years ago primarily for PCBs.  They
say that the belt, which costs more than the printer, needs replacement
about every 2-3 toner cartridges.  Well, even if I replace the printer after
every 2 toner refills, the operating cost is still less than the inkjet.  So
the laser gets used for throw away stuff, and the inkjet if I need dual
sided or color.  I only refill the cartridges some of the time because it
can be so messy, plus, I never run out of ink at a convenient time.

--McD

2006\08\01@155214 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Anyone have any particular recommendations for an inkjet AIO
more suitable for occasional use, that doesn't have its print
heads dry out?  My fairly new Epson cx6400 didn't make
it through the first set of cartridges before clogging, and
I'm sick of trying to deal with it.  I might normally go for
an HP (get new printheads every time you change cartridges),
but it has that high-cost-cartridge syndrome.  Apparently the
Epson is particularly obnoxious; it has some don't-clog features
that don't get activated unless you actually turn it all the way
OFF.  I tend to leave it in stand-by all the time...  Grr.

BillW

2006\08\01@171131 by Martin K

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face
By far, the easiest to setup printer I have used in linux is my HP
Laserjet 4 with a Jet Direct card.
--
Martin K

Harold Hallikainen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\01@171706 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Canon.

I fired an old one up about a month ago after it had been setting for better
than a year, and it worked first shot.

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2006\08\01@225901 by Alden Hart

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I have found the Fineprint print program for windows (http://www.fineprint.com)
to be a real paper saver. It can print booklets (good for listings) and
sub-bookets for binding into a book. I have printed the 200+ page 16f876
datasheet into a book, stapled it with a bulk stapler, and now have a
1/2 think databook format instead of a loose leaf binder. A duplex
printer a plus, but fineprint will do double sided printing with a
manual flip once it learns your printer.

Alden

John J. McDonough wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\02@091051 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Alden Hart wrote:

> I have found the Fineprint print program for windows (http://www.fineprint.com)
> to be a real paper saver.

Yup. Not only that. You get to preview (if you want) everything you print,
no matter whether your program or printer driver has that capability. Saves
quite some wasted prints.

For many years, it's the first thing I install whenever I have to install a
new system (doesn't happen that often anymore, but still :). Even though
these days some printer drivers have similar capabilities (preview, 2up,
manual duplex etc -- my Epson driver does all that, too), it's more
comfortable to have all the printing controlled in one interface,
independently of the printer driver features and to some degree even from
the printing program.

Gerhard

2006\08\18@100853 by Dave Lag

picon face
Dunno,
I just lost two low end Canon due to clogged heads from underuse.
The kids actually listened when I told them to go easy on the colours.
who knew?

I think it can be random, my expensive HP died in a year, My sister's
worked first shot after 2 years of zero use.


James Newtons Massmind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\18@105434 by Chris Gavin-Egan

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I gave up on inkjets ages ago. To expensive to run and too much hassle
(did i mention noisy and slow ?).

I've been running a samsung ML4500 laser for the past 3-4 years. £90 for
the printer and about £30 per toner cart. (complete printers are now
about £45 lol)

Each toner cart lasts about 2000 pages - never misses a beat - has a
smallish  footprint and occasionally i just replace the toner rather
than the whole drum saving even more money.

Yes they don't do colour which is a shame but at the same time - as all
the photo processing now is digital I can get photos done a damn sight
cheaper even at my local supermarket than at home buying the paper
/ink/guillotine etc.

I run the same printer in my office too, simply to save costs on refills
etc.

My 10yr old son prints off line drawings and colours them in, sometimes
with watercolour pencils as the toner doesn't run like inkjets can.

I know i probably won't convert any of you inkjet users but just thought
i'd add my twopennethworth

Cheers

Chris

http://www.c5alive.co.uk
http://www.Console-repairs.co.uk

Dave Lag wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>>> {Original Message removed}

2006\08\18@112632 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I gave up on inkjets ages ago. To expensive to run and too much hassle
> (did i mention noisy and slow ?).

I never made the swith to laser. Refilling inkjet is dirt cheap, and I
would not like to have an ozone source 20 cm from my nose...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\18@122128 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
At least you would fill back the ozone that you had taken out driving a car
:-)

Tamas


On 18/08/06, Wouter van Ooijen <wouterspamspam_OUTvoti.nl> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\08\18@124831 by M. Adam Davis

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I purchased an old Apple Laserwrite 360 at a garage sale years ago
($40 for the mac - oh, and it comes with this printer, too).  I've got
it hooked up to a jetdirect and it's great for my single sided black
and white printing.  It eats postscript directly, and the toner is
about $100 every 2-3 years.  Pretty slow PS processing though - some
adobe PDF files seem to take forever once windows has finished
processing it.  I believe that a good laser is about the cheapest per
page cost you can get now.  A lot of the lower end models have built
in ethernet, but who knows about CUPS support.  Probably better to get
a good laser with postscript and a jetdirect or another print server.

We also have an HP OfficeJet 7310.  Duplex scanning, duplex printing,
photo card slots, ethernet, fax, etc.  Some very nice standalone
features (stick a photo flash card in, print a proof sheet, fill in
the circles of the photos you want to print and the sizes, then scan
the proof sheet and it'll do your bidding.  Also scan to flash card,
all sorts of copying options, etc)

We've had it for a year now with no problems.  I'm not interested in
refilling ink at this point, so I've never tried.  Being able to
print/scan/copy double sided stuff automatically is great, though, and
one of the main reasons we got it.  It was around $300 at the time
from Sam's Club.  The only thing I'd like next a another paper tray
and 11x17 handling, but I can't say that I really _need_ it, so oh
well.

If you want an old canon printer, I'm having a garage sale this saturday...  :-)

-Adam

On 7/31/06, alan smith <@spam@micro_eng2KILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Well my good ol HP 932C finally had a mechanical failure...little piece of plastic that holds a small steel roller broke so out came the little roller....not good.  I do have a spare but it has a bad interface board and no time to really rebuild from two old printers.
>
>   So....I do like the fact I can refill my ink cart's, what printers out there now can still allow that...if any?  I have the occasional requirement to print photos, but most the time its just text stuff.
>
>   inkjet or laser also...comments?  I know Russel had some comments on printers some time ago, but I failed to keep any of the thread.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
>

2006\08\18@132148 by David VanHorn

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I'm very pleased with my Minolta 2430 DL color laser.
Has net and USB interfaces, and "just works". :)

2006\08\18@135609 by Howard Winter

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Wouter,

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:26:26 +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> I never made the swith to laser. Refilling inkjet is dirt cheap, and I
> would not like to have an ozone source 20 cm from my nose...

I'm very sensitive to ozone - a few years ago a colleague sitting opposite me had a LaserJet III on his desk, with the fan on the back venting straight
towards me, and it made my nose itch every time he printed anything.  I have a more modern LaserJet (4050) at home and there's no sign of any
ozone being emitted, so I think your worries have been dealt with!  :-)

Having switched to using a laser a couple of years ago I now only use an inkjet on the rare occasions I want colour, and I can't remember how long
ago that was!  Lasers are so much less trouble - no clogged heads, no messing about refilling (I'm still on the toner cartrige that came with the
printer, although I do have a spare to hand), no smeared printing, it will print about 120 pages without attention (removing them from the "out" tray),
and it will take a whole ream of paper, and it prints both sides!  I'm never going back to Inkjets for day-to-day printing.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\08\18@142749 by David VanHorn

picon face
There's some vendor that keeps showing up at the dayton hamvention, with
"air purifiers", rather large units that belch out ozone. Gives me a huge
headache any time i'm around the area.. Hamvention folks don't seem to care
that ozone is toxic.

2006\08\18@160943 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Hey, what's a few random DNA mutations per billion cells?  That
shouldn't matter at all!

-Adam

On 8/18/06, David VanHorn <KILLspamdvanhornKILLspamspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
> There's some vendor that keeps showing up at the dayton hamvention, with
> "air purifiers", rather large units that belch out ozone. Gives me a huge
> headache any time i'm around the area.. Hamvention folks don't seem to care
> that ozone is toxic.
> -

2006\08\18@193951 by Vitaliy

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Howard Winter wrote:
> Having switched to using a laser a couple of years ago I now only use an
> inkjet on the rare occasions I want colour, and I can't remember how long
> ago that was!  Lasers are so much less trouble - no clogged heads, no
> messing about refilling (I'm still on the toner cartrige that came with
> the
> printer, although I do have a spare to hand), no smeared printing, it will
> print about 120 pages without attention (removing them from the "out"
> tray),
> and it will take a whole ream of paper, and it prints both sides!  I'm
> never going back to Inkjets for day-to-day printing.

Me neither! :)

By the way, color lasers aren't that expensive anymore. Check out Dell
3100cn, for example -- it produces decent quality prints, and you can get
one for $300.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\08\18@231745 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Aug 18, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Vitaliy wrote:

> color lasers aren't that expensive anymore.

I have an HP 2600N color laser.  Works nice.  However:

1) Resolution is low compared to even low-end inkjet printers,
   and if you print photos, quality is not so good (ie, not even
   as good as non-"photo" inkjets.)  This may be a software issue;
   photo printing does not seem to be a target market for most color
   lasers.
2) machine is bulky compared to inkjets.  The 2600 is bigger than
   an inkjet all-in-one.
3) consumable cost is extreme.  When the toner cartridges run out,
   I'm looking at 4 cartridges at close to $80 each, and the
   3rd party ink market is much smaller for color lasers than
   color inkjets.  (The printer was $349 new.  At $320 toner
   replacement cost, there's a real question whether it will
   EVER get new cartridges.)  But at least the ink doesn't dry
   up or clog print heads.
4) The selection of media is quite restricted compared to inkjets.

BillW

2006\08\19@101414 by Vitaliy

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
> I have an HP 2600N color laser.  Works nice.  However:
>
> 1) Resolution is low compared to even low-end inkjet printers,
>    and if you print photos, quality is not so good (ie, not even
>    as good as non-"photo" inkjets.)  This may be a software issue;
>    photo printing does not seem to be a target market for most color
>    lasers.

As someone else has mentioned, it no longer makes economic sense to print
photos on an inkjet (unless you live far away from populated areas).

> 2) machine is bulky compared to inkjets.  The 2600 is bigger than
>    an inkjet all-in-one.

Yes, the 3100cn is about the size of a small washing machine. :) That's
probably the biggest downside if you're short on space. Also, it's rather
noisy (but not as noisy as some inkjets).

But I still prefer a laser printer to an inkjet: for me, the benefits far
outweigh the disadvantages. I mean, think about it -- lasers are ready for
PCB making _out of the box_!   ;-)

Best regards,

Vitaliy

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