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'[OT] temperature compensated enclosure'
2008\09\03@163452 by alan smith

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Not sure if that describes what I am after...

I have a project I am looking at where they have a heater and controller inside a 18"x14" enclosure and want to keep the temp around 70-100 C.  Are there any off the shelf enclosures that have some sort if insulating properties so can maintain this?  It will be sealed, and never opened during operation.


     

2008\09\03@172040 by Marcel Duchamp

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alan smith wrote:
> Not sure if that describes what I am after...
>
> I have a project I am looking at where they have a heater and controller inside a 18"x14" enclosure and want to keep the temp around 70-100 C.  Are there any off the shelf enclosures that have some sort if insulating properties so can maintain this?  It will be sealed, and never opened during operation.
>
>
>      

Depends.

If this is a one-off for use in your lab only, consider an ice chest.
The 100C end will need verification that it won't deform...

2008\09\03@173326 by Bob Blick

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How about an oven?

Cheerful regards,

Bob

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT), "alan smith"
<spam_OUTmicro_eng2TakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com> said:
> Not sure if that describes what I am after...
>
> I have a project I am looking at where they have a heater and controller
> inside a 18"x14" enclosure and want to keep the temp around 70-100 C.
> Are there any off the shelf enclosures that have some sort if insulating
> properties so can maintain this?  It will be sealed, and never opened
> during operation.

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…

2008\09\03@180609 by Bob Blick

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A dishwasher would probably work, too.

Cheers,

Bob


On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT), "alan smith"
<.....micro_eng2KILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com> said:
> Not sure if that describes what I am after...
>
> I have a project I am looking at where they have a heater and controller
> inside a 18"x14" enclosure and want to keep the temp around 70-100 C.
> Are there any off the shelf enclosures that have some sort if insulating
> properties so can maintain this?  It will be sealed, and never opened
> during operation.

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web

2008\09\03@181749 by Jon Baker

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2008/9/3 alan smith <micro_eng2spamKILLspamyahoo.com>:
> Not sure if that describes what I am after...
>
> I have a project I am looking at where they have a heater and controller inside a 18"x14" enclosure and want to keep the temp around 70-100 C.  Are there any off the shelf enclosures that have some sort if insulating properties so can maintain this?  It will be sealed, and never opened during operation.

What about a glass aquarium (or two) mounted one inside the other and
fill the space between them with either nothing (suck the air out then
seal it) or some fibreglass insulation.

That's probably about as off the shelf as you are going to get for
such a large enclosure.

--
Jon Baker

2008\09\03@184649 by Peter Loron

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Sucking enough of the air out to make it really insulate well will  
collapse the glass. You need a pretty serious vaccum to make that work.

Best bet is to use styrofoam or equivalent.

How critical the insulation is will depend on how stable you need to  
keep the temperature.

-Pete

On Sep 3, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Jon Baker wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\09\03@185754 by Carl Denk

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Don't know exactly, but styrofoam melts at a low temperature, maybe less
than 300F, would suggest fiberglass or other higher melting point. A
stuck thermostat would make a real mess.

Peter Loron wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2008\09\03@200910 by Peter Loron

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If the insulation is good, and you're not pumping chilled fluid  
through the enclosure, you can get away with a very small heater.

Obviously safety would be a prime concern. I'd build in a thermal fuse  
to the heater power line.

-Pete

On Sep 3, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Carl Denk wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2008\09\03@205538 by Apptech

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> Sucking enough of the air out to make it really insulate well will
> collapse the glass. You need a pretty serious vaccum to make that work.

Filling the gap with expanded Perlite will add strength, of sorts, and still
leave good insulation properties.


       Russell

2008\09\03@222605 by Marc Nicholas

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With the added bonus that, if you're not careful, you can  grow mushrooms :)
-marc

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Apptech <@spam@apptechKILLspamspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:

> > Sucking enough of the air out to make it really insulate well will
> > collapse the glass. You need a pretty serious vaccum to make that work.
>
> Filling the gap with expanded Perlite will add strength, of sorts, and
> still
> leave good insulation properties.
>
>
>        Russell
>
> -

2008\09\03@232126 by Apptech

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> With the added bonus that, if you're not careful, you can  grow mushrooms
> :)

Not once you pull vaccuum on the Perlite.


>> Filling the gap with expanded Perlite will add strength, of sorts, and
>> still
>> leave good insulation properties.


         Russell

2008\09\03@235832 by Jinx

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> > With the added bonus that, if you're not careful, you can  grow
>> mushrooms
> > :)
>
> Not once you pull vaccuum on the Perlite.

What about space mushrooms ?

Another option for the enclosure might be a small fridge

2008\09\04@024838 by Peter Loron

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Rats! I was going to make the space mushroom quote!

Yeah, you could use perlite as a filler, but I'm not sure it will  
provide the strength in compression you'd need to avoid having the  
glass crack. Best to get a proper dewar and stick the project in there  
if you want to go that route.

I think you'd do almost as well with some kind of box with thick  
styrofoam sheets attached with expanding insulating foam. Of course if  
you do that, your fire resistance rating goes out the window...

The real limiter here, of course, is what kind of precision is  
required for the temp control. If they need +/- 5C, then it should be  
pretty easy. If they need +/- 0.05C, then things get a little more  
involved.  :-)

-Pete

On Sep 3, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Jinx wrote:

>>> With the added bonus that, if you're not careful, you can  grow
>>> mushrooms
>>> :)
>>
>> Not once you pull vaccuum on the Perlite.
>
> What about space mushrooms ?
>
> Another option for the enclosure might be a small fridge
>
> --

2008\09\04@061516 by cdb

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What about laboratory drying ovens? They are also used for PCB
dehumidfying - Ratek and Thermoline have big small and indifferent
ones.

Colin
--
cdb, KILLspamcolinKILLspamspambtech-online.co.uk on 4/09/2008

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

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2008\09\04@092757 by alan smith

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Thanks for the suggestions.  This is a project where initially it will be defined as R&D.,,budget so many dollars to see how well it will work, then proceed to a very small and limited production...maybe 10 to 20 units.  The temperature isn't critical, in other words it doesn't need to be tightly controlled, just within the range of 70-100.

I've done projects in the past where I've had to use AC units to keep the inside of the enclosure cool for the electronics so I know that you have issues with thermal conductivity for steel boxes, typically use fiberglass for those applications.  

I don't want to have to fabricate a box (although I could but out of steel) so gluing foam pieces to the side and sealing the connections may be the best and easiest method.  The other way of course is to make an inner wall with plastic sheets, and spray in foam insulation.  

Essentially the reason for the temperature is that gases will be flowing thru the box and being matrixed with valves, so they like to be kept warm for one reason or another.  Nothing explosive or flammable, so no need to worry about those issues.


     

2008\09\04@100916 by Jon Baker

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2008/9/4 alan smith <RemoveMEmicro_eng2TakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com>:
> Thanks for the suggestions.  This is a project where initially it will be defined as R&D.,,budget so many dollars to see how well it will work, then proceed to a very small and limited production...maybe 10 to 20 units.  The temperature isn't critical, in other words it doesn't need to be tightly controlled, just within the range of 70-100.

> Essentially the reason for the temperature is that gases will be flowing thru the box and being matrixed with valves, so they like to be kept warm for one reason or another.  Nothing explosive or flammable, so no need to worry about those issues.

Is it top secret or can you say what it's for.. I'm all curious now :-)

--
Jon Baker

2008\09\04@150020 by Mike Hagen

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Go to Wal - Mart and buy an Igloo or Coleman small ice chest?
We did that for some medical products that need cool circulating water.

I actually duc taped up some of the holes we put in them and use them
now for camping.

You can even buy them with a cigar lighter plug now that actively heat
or cool in the car?

Just a thought............

Mike


Jon Baker wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\09\04@170342 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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> Essentially the reason for the temperature is that gases will be  
> flowing thru the box and being matrixed with valves, so they like  
> to be kept warm for one reason or another.  Nothing explosive or  
> flammable, so no need to worry about those issues.
>

Maintaining a temperature in a box through which you are continuously  
flowing "coolant" is going to be a significantly different problem  
than maintaining a temperature in a mostly inert lump of  
electronics.  I suspect that most of the "insulated box" solutions  
people are suggesting are going to be pretty useless...

BillW

2008\09\04@173340 by alan smith

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Its not a coolant...its a matrix switch so to speak for a online analysis system, pretty much cant say much more as its a "special" project for "special" people.  Its just in the bid phase now, so making sure I cover my R&D costs with them. All I know, is the IR sensory system works better when the material is warmer than colder.


--- On Thu, 9/4/08, William "Chops" Westfield <TakeThisOuTwestfwEraseMEspamspam_OUTmac.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\09\04@175130 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:33 PM, alan smith wrote:

> Its not a coolant.

"Gasses flowing through the box" are a coolant whether you want them  
to be or not!
(although the volumes implied by "analysis system" might be pretty  
manageable compared to, say, some sort of high-speed pneumatic  
controller box...)

BillW

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