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'[OT] online fraud prevention - US'
2014\05\06@222650 by CDB

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Is it becoming the standard in the US to require photo ID plus an image of your credit card to be emailed to a company when an online purchase has been made?

I've just attempted to purchase some software from a US company, and even when using PayPal as the payment provider, they are demanding that I send them by post,fax or email, a photo of myself and a photo of my credit card, albeit just the large 4 digits.

I do understand the idea of fraud protection, but as PayPal and others like it exist so that I don't have to send my banking/credit card details to vendors, it seems to be counter productive to then ask.
I have written to the software company a note, explaining why I will not be purchasing their products, which is a shame, as I really liked the utilities they offer for Windows.

I find it even more strange considering, Mastercard and Visa have the security check where I have to provide a password online and they subsequently SMS my phone with a code that I have to input before they'll process a payment.
Maybe it isn't the actual software company but their payment provider PayPro who are what I see as the problem.

They do say I can wire them money, which seems to me to be less secure form my point of view.

Colin
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2014\05\06@231658 by John Ferrell

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Sometimes it is your money they are protecting. It can be frustrating but I would rather be challenged once in a while than be scammed.

On 5/6/2014 10:32 PM, CDB wrote:
{Quote hidden}

-- John Ferrell W8CCW

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2014\05\07@042219 by Bob Axtell

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95% of my non-rent purchases are online, and this never happened to me, EVER.

--Bob A
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On 5/6/2014 8:16 PM, John Ferrell wrote:
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2014\05\07@070244 by RussellMc

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On 7 May 2014 20:22, Bob Axtell <spam_OUTengineerTakeThisOuTspamcotse.net> wrote:

> 95% of my non-rent purchases are online, and this never happened to me,
> EVER.
>

>> They do say I can wire them money, which seems to me to be less secure
form

> >> my point of view.
>

They may be trying to make it hard to do via someone else's system.
Assuming money means eg Western Union then wiring them money is VERY secure
for them if it works and your problem if it doesn't.
"Wired" transactions are irrevocable come what may.
Bad goods or wrong destination are not a reason to expect uyour money back.

With VISA there is a reasonably good "get your money back" provision.
If you can convince VISA that the contract was not properly satisfied by
the other party, or perhaps even if you just certify it is so, then they
can reverse the transaction. I have done this once in the case of a fraud
where I expected to lose my $ but didn't.

At one stage PayPal vanished accounts with $ in that they deemed to have
been inactive too long. One of them was mine. After a class action suit,
which I had no involvement in, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my
account and $ had reappeared. The amount was not vast - somewhere under
$100, but it was a shock to have any company do something like that.
I still use PayPal once in two blue moons when sellers demand it but the
experience soured my liking for them.


          Russell


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2014\05\07@083300 by Bob Axtell

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We had a horrible experience with Paypal before EBAY bought them; an online predator had convinced PP that my wife had failed to ship a laptop he had "bought". In fact, she'd never sold anything on EBAY, and never has since, but PP took $1450 straight from our BANK, not our PP account! It took us 10 days, and threats of a criminal complaint before they refunded our money.  The police department said, at that time, that PP had a "number" of complaints
from other Arizona citizens, and commented that we should "use a real bank instead", and we did for two years, Finally, I re-opened the PP account using only a limited credit card, no bank account, and have had no problems since.

I suspect that EBAY made PP clean up their act when they bought PP.

--Bob A

On 5/7/2014 4:02 AM, RussellMc wrote:
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2014\05\07@094518 by RussellMc

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>
>
> ...
> but PP took $1450 straight from our BANK, not our PP
> account! It took us 10 days, and threats of a criminal complaint before
> they refunded our money.


We have an organisation here that uses similar standover tactics.
It's called the Inland Revenue Department.

They owe me money.
The several people who have rang me from within their hallowed halls all
realise that they owe me money.

BUT because I have not filed a return to get said money paid they have
issued a default assessment which the organisation knows is false and which
the several ringeruppers know is false and they instructed my bank to take
$3900 from my bank account. There was only about $400 in the account at the
time so that's all the bank took.They did not try to take any more when the
account had some $ added. When I discovered what was happening when I came
back from a month away overseas I ensured that the account was run slightly
in debit to stop any more "get his attention" fishing trips.
Any day now I'll file a return or few and they will presumably refund the $
they have, by any sensible definition, stolen, plus whatever else they owe
me.

Usually when organisations do bad things I assure those I deal with that it
is the organisation and not the people who I consider at fault and worthy
of appropriate disparagement and criticism. As the last ringerupper
cheerfully admitted that the issue of an order on a bank account usually
got peoples' attention and ensured that a return was filed, and as said
person was aware that they owed me money and that the $3900 withdrawal
order was unrelated to the credit balance, the person involved is as
culpable and evil as the organisation. Evil is a word that sounds
inappropriate for the deeds of government departments or employees, but if
this was done by private merchants it would constitute some or all of
theft, standover tactics or ... . ("Send us your invoice for the money we
owe you or we'll take $3900 from your bank account" - Yeah. Right. )



        R
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2014\05\07@110037 by John Gardner

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Speak of the Devil...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140503/04264427106/us-government-begins-rollout-its-drivers-license-internet.shtml

What could go wrong?



Eppur, si muove...
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2014\05\07@111713 by alan.b.pearce

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> BUT because I have not filed a return to get said money paid they have
> issued a default assessment which the organisation knows is false and which
> the several ringeruppers know is false and they instructed my bank to take
> $3900 from my bank account. There was only about $400 in the account at
> the time so that's all the bank took.They did not try to take any more when
> the account had some $ added. When I discovered what was happening
> when I came back from a month away overseas I ensured that the account
> was run slightly in debit to stop any more "get his attention" fishing trips.

Sounds like a case for the Small Claims Court.


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2014\05\07@125858 by RussellMc

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>
> Sounds like a case for the Small Claims Court.
>
> I doubt that the IRD is touchable by the SCC
and
no doubt their "rules" allow them to do what they are doing.
Morality and decency are not essential as long as rules are properly
followed.




      R
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2014\05\07@132617 by RussellMc

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On 8 May 2014 03:00, John Gardner <goflo3spamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

> Speak of the Devil...
>
>
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140503/04264427106/us-government-begins-rollout-its-drivers-license-internet.shtml
>
> What could go wrong?
>
> Isn't this just a variant of "log in with Face Book".?

Log in with NSA.
NSA will share your address book, contact list, telephone numbers,
favourite places, ...
Click "Yes" or press Y to agree.
Click  "No" or press N to agree
Click "Agree" to exit.
Press any other key or click to agree.



           R



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2014\05\07@141809 by Denny Esterline

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>
>
> Click "Yes" or press Y to agree.
> Click  "No" or press N to agree
> Click "Agree" to exit.
> Press any other key or click to agree.
>
>
You forgot one...
Do anything else to be placed on the government watchlist of suspected
"domestic terrorists".

-Denny
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2014\05\08@082400 by John Ferrell

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In the US, at least some States have Laws that require that funds in dormant accounts be transferred to the State as "Unclaimed Funds".
I have less than $10 in Unclaimed Funds and the claiming fee is greater than $10. I do not intend to make it my problem!

On 5/7/2014 9:44 AM, RussellMc wrote:
> We have an organisation here that uses similar standover tactics.
> It's called the Inland Revenue Department.
>
> They owe me money.

-- John Ferrell W8CCW

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 Live the life you have imagined."
– Henry David Thoreau


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2014\05\08@085418 by Carl Denk

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Some states allow "association" of accounts where, if one account say a checking has activity, other accounts same institution, same name, are deemed "active". In Ohio, I think Credit Unions do this, but a regular bank notified of a rarely used savings account being dormant even though we had a very active checking account there.
On 5/8/2014 8:23 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
> In the US, at least some States have Laws that require that funds in
> dormant accounts be transferred to the State as "Unclaimed Funds".
> I have less than $10 in Unclaimed Funds and the claiming fee is greater
> than $10. I do not intend to make it my problem!
>
> On 5/7/2014 9:44 AM, RussellMc wrote:
>> We have an organisation here that uses similar standover tactics.
>> It's called the Inland Revenue Department.
>>
>> They owe me money.

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2014\05\08@085617 by Carl Denk

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This may be some commercial service asking for the money. If you go directly to the state agency, it might be free.
On 5/8/2014 8:23 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
> In the US, at least some States have Laws that require that funds in
> dormant accounts be transferred to the State as "Unclaimed Funds".
> I have less than $10 in Unclaimed Funds and the claiming fee is greater
> than $10. I do not intend to make it my problem!
>
> On 5/7/2014 9:44 AM, RussellMc wrote:
>> We have an organisation here that uses similar standover tactics.
>> It's called the Inland Revenue Department.
>>
>> They owe me money.

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2014\05\08@093115 by Joe Wronski

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My state has my name and home town on an unclaimed property list and I have tried to claim it, but they deny it is mine.  Rather frustrating,.  It could be my grandfather, but he's been gone for about 40 years.  I doubt there was another person with my name living in that town.

Joe W


On 5/8/2014 8:23 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
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2014\05\08@115230 by John Ferrell

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It is your state of Ohio. I spent a lot of time in the past working with the various government agencies and businesses in the Central Ohio area. I am certain that items like this have a really low priority. I would be opposed to trying to fix this one because of the doubt it may cast on the integrity of the overall file for the future. I hope the current people are as dedicated as we were in providing an honest and squeaky clean operation as we were.

BTW, the costs of unraveling this particular record would be a lot more than the service fee. It would be best for all to just leave it where it is.

On 5/8/2014 8:56 AM, Carl Denk wrote:
> This may be some commercial service asking for the money. If you go
> directly to the state agency, it might be free.

-- John Ferrell W8CCW

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 Live the life you have imagined."
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