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PICList Thread
'[OT] online degrees'
2006\06\13@111219 by David VanHorn

picon face
What's the general perception of a degree from an online university
(accredited!)?

I'm looking to start down that path, one way a or another.

--
Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\06\13@125805 by PicDude

flavicon
face
Depends on the degree/school -- if it's an established brick and mortar
university that added an online option, then perhaps I'll continue
interviewing the candidate.  If it's one of those $19.95 plus
get-a-free-set-of-ginsu-knives degrees, then obviously not.  Once I hear the
word "online" on a candidate's resume, I'd definitely up the interview
process to ensure the candidate knows what they are expected to.  But then
again, I usually don't care if someone got their knowledge from the backs of
bubble gum wrappers if they can do the work.

Beware of accreditations -- there is more than one accreditation system, and
established universities will not take candidates from schools with other
accreditations, such as the home accreditation council (or something like
that) for example.  Tech institutes such as NTS or NIT, etc are usually
accredited by those "other" systems.

Cheers,
-Neil.




On Tuesday 13 June 2006 10:12, David VanHorn wrote:
> What's the general perception of a degree from an online university
> (accredited!)?
>
> I'm looking to start down that path, one way a or another.
>
> --
> Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\06\13@131354 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/13/06, PicDude <spam_OUTpicdudeTakeThisOuTspamnarwani.net> wrote:
>
> Depends on the degree/school -- if it's an established brick and mortar
> university that added an online option, then perhaps I'll continue
> interviewing the candidate.



Hmm.. That dosen't sound all that rosy.
The only local option is a teaching college, not a technical one.
I have to earn a living, and pulling up stakes and moving to the east coast
is NOT an option.

2006\06\13@132618 by Mike Hord

picon face
> > Depends on the degree/school -- if it's an established brick and mortar
> > university that added an online option, then perhaps I'll continue
> > interviewing the candidate.
>
> Hmm.. That dosen't sound all that rosy.
> The only local option is a teaching college, not a technical one.
> I have to earn a living, and pulling up stakes and moving to the east coast
> is NOT an option.

I think he was more getting at the idea that an online study degree from, say,
Iowa State University, would be preferable to "Bob's Engineering School-
Accredited since early 2006 with the Trinidad and Tobago Engineering
Society".  You don't have to PHYSICALLY attend the school, but the fact
that the online option is merely an aspect of a physical, established
institution of higher education makes it more viable.

Speaking of which, I'd recommend looking at ISU as a good option.  You can
pursue many branches of engineering at many levels from them via the
Internet.  They have some very impressive hardware; I can't vouch for the
quality of the education, though, as I only took one internet class and was
disappointed in the content.  I don't think, however, that a student who got
a degree from ISU through distance ed is liable to be substantially at a
disadvantage compared to one who attended class there physically.

Mike H.

2006\06\13@134141 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> I think he was more getting at the idea that an online study degree from,
> say, Iowa State University



Yes, I was only considering real universities.

I still have to look at all the issues, tuition and all that fun, but it
seems that these days, without a degree, anything else you say is heard like
Charlie Brown's teacher.

OTOH, I may just pitch this whole career track.  The idea is surprisingly
attractive.  Few appreciate what we do at all, and compensation is not all
that good. Hours are pretty much insane, and pressure is high.   On average,
in this area, an engineer makes about the same money as a truck driver.

2006\06\13@135845 by gacrowell

flavicon
face
I can highly recommend National Technological University (NTU), which is
now merged with Walden University, http://www.ntu.edu , http://www.walden.edu.  I have
taken classes via NTU from UMass, UMaryland, Arizona State, and several
other bricks&mortar schools. Most of those classes were broadcast live,
which requires an employer or someone to provide a subscribed learning
center, but I think many (maybe most, [all?]) courses can now be
delivered on line or on DVD (the last one I took was DVD).  NTU degrees
are definitely not the 'diploma mill' type.

Gary Crowell
Micron Technology


2006\06\13@141558 by Tim N9PUZ

picon face
With regard to finding work I would tend to look a lot closer at
someone with an online degree and no experience vs. an experienced
engineer who had gone back to school for further study.

Tim

2006\06\13@141625 by gacrowell

flavicon
face
I suppose I should mention that NTU-Walden classes are definitely not
inexpensive either.  Last time I looked it was on the order of $3K for a
3-semester hour class.  It helps to have an employer foot the bill.

GC

> {Original Message removed}

2006\06\13@142303 by David VanHorn

picon face
Looks like they require at least a BS to play, which leaves me out.

2006\06\13@142545 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/13/06, .....gacrowellKILLspamspam@spam@micron.com <gacrowellspamKILLspammicron.com> wrote:
>
> I suppose I should mention that NTU-Walden classes are definitely not
> inexpensive either.  Last time I looked it was on the order of $3K for a
> 3-semester hour class.  It helps to have an employer foot the bill.


Ouch!

2006\06\13@142808 by gacrowell

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face
Sorry, its been so long that I've looked at NTU that I also forgot to
mention that in the engineering department it only offers graduate
classes and degrees.

GC


{Quote hidden}

2006\06\13@143651 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
David VanHorn wrote:

> On average, in this area, an engineer makes about the same money as a
> truck driver.

I think people should get used to the idea that making money is a skill and
a goal in itself. Just learning and doing something else (like engineering
or driving trucks) doesn't get you necessarily closer to that skill set or
goal. It might be a viable compromise, though :)

Gerhard

2006\06\13@143756 by gacrowell

flavicon
face
Yes, I realized that just a few minutes ago.  But I have to believe
there is an online undergraduate equivalent.  There is a company
'education fair' in the cafeteria here tomorrow, just a few steps away.
NTU and others will be there, I'll ask.

Gary

> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu
> [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On Behalf Of David VanHorn
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] online degrees
>
> Looks like they require at least a BS to play, which leaves me out.
> --

2006\06\13@145123 by David VanHorn

picon face
Cool. Thanks

2006\06\13@153627 by PicDude

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face
On Tuesday 13 June 2006 12:26, Mike Hord wrote:
> > > Depends on the degree/school -- if it's an established brick and mortar
> > > university that added an online option, then perhaps I'll continue
> > > interviewing the candidate.
> >
> > Hmm.. That dosen't sound all that rosy.
> > The only local option is a teaching college, not a technical one.
> > I have to earn a living, and pulling up stakes and moving to the east
> > coast is NOT an option.
>
> I think he was more getting at the idea that an online study degree from,
> say, Iowa State University, would be preferable to "Bob's Engineering
> School-

Exactly.


> Accredited since early 2006 with the Trinidad and Tobago
> Engineering Society".

Now are you picking Trinidad as your example cause I'm from there?


> ...
>
> Mike H.

2006\06\13@154533 by PicDude

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face
On Tuesday 13 June 2006 12:41, David VanHorn wrote:
> > I think he was more getting at the idea that an online study degree from,
> > say, Iowa State University
>
> Yes, I was only considering real universities.

A lot of the real universities, as far as I know, require you to meet in
person periodically like once a month, and some on Saturdays for executive
MBAs etc.  This is good.  Some require you to be there for the final exams,
and that too is good as it removes some of the ambiguity of what you're
getting.

I've heard that the online versions of in-person degrees at established
universities usually have some designation that states it was an online
course, so verify what degree you're getting up front.


> I still have to look at all the issues, tuition and all that fun, but it
> seems that these days, without a degree, anything else you say is heard
> like Charlie Brown's teacher.
>
> OTOH, I may just pitch this whole career track.  The idea is surprisingly
> attractive.  Few appreciate what we do at all, and compensation is not all
> that good. Hours are pretty much insane, and pressure is high.   On
> average, in this area, an engineer makes about the same money as a truck
> driver.

Oh-oh ... you looking at aviation like Tony Nixon?

Cheers,
-Neil.

2006\06\13@161638 by David VanHorn

picon face
No, not sure what my other path might be yet.
Counseling is a possibility.

2006\06\13@165633 by Mike Hord

picon face
> > Accredited since early 2006 with the Trinidad and Tobago
> > Engineering Society".
>
> Now are you picking Trinidad as your example cause I'm from there?

Nope- random example along the lines of "Medical School of the
Caribbean" or "St. Bart's Law School".

It is, of course, an unfair generalization (maybe), but in the US people
tend to view educations, particularly professional educations like law,
medicine, and (presumably) engineering, with skepticism when the
degree-granting institution is based in the Caribbean.  Of course, I
could call myself "The American Institute of Engineering Excellence"
and start selling certificates of accreditation; names mean less than
nothing- cross reference to "registered dog breeders" and you'll see
what I mean.

Mike H.

2006\06\13@171058 by David VanHorn

picon face
>  Of course, I
> could call myself "The American Institute of Engineering Excellence"
> and start selling certificates of accreditation;


So how much for a masters?
:)

2006\06\13@172445 by Robert Ammerman

picon face
As counselor or counselee? ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David VanHorn" <dvanhornspamspam_OUTmicrobrix.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <@spam@piclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] online degrees


> No, not sure what my other path might be yet.
> Counseling is a possibility.
> --

2006\06\13@172841 by Mike Hord

picon face
> >  Of course, I
> > could call myself "The American Institute of Engineering Excellence"
> > and start selling certificates of accreditation;
>
>
> So how much for a masters?
> :)

Sorry, Dave, I only accredit universities with zero or more staff members
located within the continental US, Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, US
territories and holdings, Australia, South America, Central America,
Eastern Europe, Western Europe, and Iceland.

If you wish to found your own accredited University program and award
yourself a degree or two (or three), I'd be glad to help. ;-)

Mike H.

2006\06\13@180822 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/13/06, Robert Ammerman <KILLspamrammermanKILLspamspamverizon.net> wrote:
>
> As counselor or counselee? ;-)


Both, of course.

Actually, there's truth to that.  We are all on a path, be it wide or narrow
at the moment, and wether or not we know where it leads.   We owe it to
those who have helped us, to help others where we can.

2006\06\13@210113 by John Ferrell

face picon face
I had about a year of MBA at Capitol University in Bexley Ohio in the Night
School Program.
I also had about a year of Executive MBA at Bowling Green State University
in Ohio.
Note: The reason I quit was that I was far enough along to recognize a good
early retirement program!

The Executive MBA program was like being coupled to an infinite load. They
expected all your time (including sleep time) the two weeks you were in
attendance and they loaded you up with enough take home work to assure no
free time while you were back on the job. I cannot be sure, but I think I
retained more in the night program.

Both programs were good and fully accredited. I would do an Executive
program if there was no other option. The Exec program was awfully
expensive, but my employer was paying the tuition. I paid books, room &
board.

I was in the unusual situation of not really concerned over the degree, the
education was the goal.

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"My Competition is not my enemy"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2006\06\14@162959 by John Ferrell

face picon face
It just occurred to me: If I were smarter, it would not have been so hard!

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"My Competition is not my enemy"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2006\06\14@230403 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:33 PM, John Ferrell wrote:

> If I were smarter, it would not have been so hard!

Nonsense.  If you were smarter, you would have been at a harder
school, taking harder classes, probably in cut-throat competition
with the other pre-med and pre-law students.

 :-(
BillW

2006\06\15@035859 by Kevin

picon face
> What's the general perception of a degree from an online university
> (accredited!)?
>
> I'm looking to start down that path, one way a or another.
>

This is probably a good page to see what's available
strictly online.

www.marylandonline.org/db/schools/by_code/umuc
or
http://www.worldcampus.psu.edu/degrees.shtml

You are not going to find any hard science or engineering
course online. What I found was any courses that require
lab time are not going to be offered online. The exception being
computer programming.

I took an online Masters level class in Computer Arch and OS
Design from UMUC.
It was no walk in the park. We were required to read two 700
page books in 7 weeks. We also, had twice weekly
assignments, a midterm, a final, a 20 page paper and
a project. (Not a lot of spare time, when working 50 hours a
week)

Also, the prices tend to be the same for the online classes.
If not why would anyone live on campus.

Fortunately for me, Penn State has a satellite campus across
the street from work. So, I ended up doing the brick and
mortar thing.

Good Luck,
Kevin


2006\06\15@044615 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>What's the general perception of a degree from an online university
>(accredited!)?
>
>I'm looking to start down that path, one way a or another.

I don't know about US ones, but I am doing a BEng through the Open
University http://www.open.ac.uk/ here in the UK. It seems to be pretty well
regarded, except by a few red brick ones, which are typically lower in the
league tables ...

2006\06\15@104107 by Austin

flavicon
face
>"Kevin" <RemoveMEkbenTakeThisOuTspamdca.net> wrote:
>What I found was any courses that require lab time are not going
>to be offered online. The exception being computer programming.

Old Dominion University in VA has several BS technology programs
(BSEET, BSMET, etc.)  http://www.odu.edu or http://www.dl.odu.edu for their
distance site.  TAC of ABET accredited.

Some labs in the BSEET distance program require the purchase of
parts and tools - you create your own little lab to perform the
experiments.

Their classes are offered both via TTN at their distance sites and via
videostreaming - so you don't necessarily need to live close to one
of their sites.

When I last checked, an EET can be licensed as a PE in 38 states.
With a BSEET, if you want to continue on with a technical masters,
you'll probably need to take a few extra courses.  AFAIK, you can
be licensed in all 50 states with a non-technical masters, say in Eng
Mgmt. This may give you another option.

Cheers!

Austin

2006\06\15@140956 by gacrowell

flavicon
face
Sorry David, I checked at that education fair here, other than graduate
degrees, there were only some 'certificate programs' that frankly looked
pretty useless, drafting & repair & such.

Gary

> -----Original Message-----
> From: spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesspamBeGonespammit.edu
> [TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On Behalf Of David VanHorn
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] online degrees
>
> Looks like they require at least a BS to play, which leaves me out.
> --

2006\06\15@153547 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/15/06, RemoveMEgacrowellspamTakeThisOuTmicron.com <gacrowellEraseMEspam.....micron.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry David, I checked at that education fair here, other than graduate
> degrees, there were only some 'certificate programs' that frankly looked
> pretty useless, drafting & repair & such.


Yeah, in the age of cad, a drafting certificate?  :)  Dosen't hurt to know
the basics, but it sounds like a morse code course.

2006\06\15@154323 by alan smith

picon face
sorta interesting....in todays email....timing is everything?  Now, I have no clue who these guys are....just thought I would pass it along within this thread....
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2006\06\15@165751 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/15/06, alan smith <EraseMEmicro_eng2spamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> sorta interesting....in todays email....timing is everything?  Now, I have
> no clue who these guys are....just thought I would pass it along within this
> thread....


The accreditation seems solid enough.

2006\06\15@191626 by Carey Fisher

face picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
>
> Yeah, in the age of cad, a drafting certificate?  :)  Dosen't hurt to know
> the basics, but it sounds like a morse code course.
>  
Hey!!! I resemble that remark!!!

-- --- .-. ... .  -.-.  ---  .-. ... .  ..-. --- .-. . ...- . .-.

73!!!
--

*Carey Fisher*

2006\06\15@202258 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 6/15/06, Carey Fisher <RemoveMEcareyfisherEraseMEspamEraseMEncsradio.com> wrote:
>
> David VanHorn wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, in the age of cad, a drafting certificate?  :)  Dosen't hurt to
> know
> > the basics, but it sounds like a morse code course.
> >
> Hey!!! I resemble that remark!!!
>
> -- --- .-. ... .  -.-.  ---  .-. ... .  ..-. --- .-. . ...- . .-.


Yeah, me too, but you know what I mean. NOBODY uses morse seriously
anymore.  It's purely hobby.

-.-  -.-.  -... .  -  .

2006\06\15@222328 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
{Quote hidden}

_I_ use it when I am stuck on a bad PIC problm. Takes only 1 pin and a
audio beeper.

--Bob

2006\06\15@224505 by Carey Fisher

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Hey!  Great Idea Bob!  Thanks!!!

And Dave, yeah, but Morse is cool cause no one else (very few) knows
it.  For example... let's talk about Russell:

.-. ..- ... ... . .-.. .-..   .. ...  .-  -.. --- --- -..  --. ..- -.--

de K8VZ

--

*Carey Fisher, Chief Technical Officer
New Communications Solutions, LLC
*EraseMEcareyfisherspamspamspamBeGonencsradio.com <RemoveMEcareyfisherKILLspamspamncsradio.com>
Toll Free Phone:888-883-5788
Local Phone:770-814-0683
FAX: 888-883-5788
http://www.ncsradio.com <http://www.ncsradio.com/>

2006\06\16@000815 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
> And Dave, yeah, but Morse is cool cause no one else (very few) knows
> it.  For example... let's talk about Russell:
>
> .-. ..- ... ... . .-.. .-..   .. ...  .-  -.. --- --- -..  --. ..- -.--

RUSSELL IS A DOOD GUY

Took me about 10 seconds to google a Morse translator. :)

I used to want to learn Morse code when I was a kid, but as time went on
both my free time and motivation decreased (I mean, when am I going to use
it?). :(

How long does it take to learn, anyway?

Vitaliy

2006\06\16@011021 by Carey Fisher

face picon face
Vitaliy wrote:
>> And Dave, yeah, but Morse is cool cause no one else (very few) knows
>> it.  For example... let's talk about Russell:
>>
>> .-. ..- ... ... . .-.. .-..   .. ...  .-  -.. --- --- -..  --. ..- -.--
>>    
>
> RUSSELL IS A DOOD GUY
>
> Took me about 10 seconds to google a Morse translator. :)
>
> I used to want to learn Morse code when I was a kid, but as time went on
> both my free time and motivation decreased (I mean, when am I going to use
> it?). :(
>
> How long does it take to learn, anyway?
>
> Vitaliy
>
>  
Guess I can misspell in Morse as easily as English.  Should have been:

.-. ..- ... ... . .-.. .-..   .. ...  .-  --. --- --- -..  --. ..- -.--


Vitaliy, I probably learned to send and receive Morse at 5 words per
minute (wpm) in about 8-10 total hours when I was 13 years old.  I then
got on the air and got my speed up to 13 wpm in a year or so of
operating.  When I was 22, I crammed like crazy for a week and got up to
20 wpm so I could take a test and get my Extra class license.  It's like
riding a bicycle - you never forget.
--

*Carey Fisher, Chief Technical Officer
New Communications Solutions, LLC
*careyfisherSTOPspamspamspam_OUTncsradio.com <spamBeGonecareyfisherSTOPspamspamEraseMEncsradio.com>
Toll Free Phone:888-883-5788
Local Phone:770-814-0683
FAX: 888-883-5788
http://www.ncsradio.com <http://www.ncsradio.com/>

2006\06\16@090505 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> _I_ use it when I am stuck on a bad PIC problm. Takes only 1 pin and a
> audio beeper.


My version sends a byte as wide and narrow pulses, with the total length
always the same no matter what the data, so I can do 20+ bytes in a stream
if need be.

I read it on the scope though, it's realtime debugging info.

2006\06\16@093636 by Carey Fisher

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
>
> _I_ use it when I am stuck on a bad PIC problm. Takes only 1 pin and a
> audio beeper.
>
> --Bob
>
>  
I guess you have a "SendCW" routine that you call with the character to
send in "W"?  Any chance of getting a listing of this routine?

Thanks,
Carey

2006\06\20@161343 by dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hi,

I do it since aeons even in production. Occasionally via CCP to drop even
the beeper for a lspkr.

Imre

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Carey Fisher wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\20@171956 by Lindy Mayfield

flavicon
face
I almost figured it out without knowing Morse code other than sos.

I substituted the S's and O's and then saw RUSSELL and ended up with:

RUSSELL IS A _OO_ _U_

I had to cheat to find out it said: Russell is a dood guy.

You planning on killing him???

> And Dave, yeah, but Morse is cool cause no one else (very few) knows
> it.  For example... let's talk about Russell:
>
> .-. ..- ... ... . .-.. .-..   .. ...  .-  -.. --- --- -..  --. ..- -.--
>

2006\06\20@184806 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> RUSSELL IS A _OO_ _U_
>
> I had to cheat to find out it said: Russell is a dood guy.
>
> You planning on killing him???


There is no inherent error correction or detection in morse...

2006\06\20@222621 by Rich Graziano

picon face
.- -. -..   .-  

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lindy Mayfield" <spamBeGonelindy.mayfieldspamKILLspamssf.sas.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistspam_OUTspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] online degrees


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> --

2006\06\20@222811 by Rich Graziano

picon face
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lindy Mayfield" <TakeThisOuTlindy.mayfield.....spamTakeThisOuTssf.sas.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <TakeThisOuTpiclistKILLspamspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] online degrees


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2006\06\21@153449 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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>{Original Message removed}

2006\06\22@142350 by Josh Koffman

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On 6/13/06, PicDude <spamBeGonepicdude@spam@spamspam_OUTnarwani.net> wrote:
> Beware of accreditations -- there is more than one accreditation system, and
> established universities will not take candidates from schools with other
> accreditations, such as the home accreditation council (or something like
> that) for example.  Tech institutes such as NTS or NIT, etc are usually
> accredited by those "other" systems.

I know I'm late...still trying to catch up on over a month's worth of
PICList email. I know the University of North Dakota used to have a
distance program. It was unique when I checked it out as they are a
state school (I think), and the degree is the same as any other from a
brick and mortar school. They way it worked was that you did all your
coursework through distance, then you were required to show up
physically at the school during the summer and do a few days worth of
labwork per course.

I never go around to signing up (mainly due to time and money), but someday...

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

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