Post by thread:[OT] acetylene explosions

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Andy Kunz wrote: > We used to fill condoms with acetylene (from welding bottles) and O2 for > fun, detonating them on a pond (no fish floated though - what were we doing > wrong <G>). One July 4th many years ago we used several large garbage bags > of acetylne & O2, lofted with H2 filled bags, and about 6' of fuse. The > boom rolled for several seconds as it echoed up and down the mountain valley. > > I was scared to death of the garbage bags, as the static buildup was > tremendous. It could have gone boom any time while we were handling. Good > thing we only played with these toys in the summer humidity - the winter > dryness would have really caused problems! > Takes me back to my childhood when I spent many a happy hour making explosives of various types, from simple chlorate/carbon to an attempt at nitro-glycerine (don't worry - I took safety precautions - the test tubes were taped to long sticks). I have often thought that if the nitro had gone off it would probably have taken entire house with it. I guess kids today get their thrills from video games and the like; it's a shame that they're distracted from taking up more wholesome pursuits. Geoff.

At 12:26 PM 9/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >Takes me back to my childhood when I spent many a happy hour making explosives >of various types, from simple chlorate/carbon to an attempt at nitro-glycerine >(don't worry - I took safety precautions - the test tubes were taped to long >sticks). I have often thought that if the nitro had gone off it would probably >have taken entire house with it. I guess kids today get their thrills from >video games and the like; it's a shame that they're distracted from taking up >more wholesome pursuits. > >Geoff. On that note, does anyone know how to make flash powder (quick burning gunpowder, like the kind in shells, etc.), i.e. NOT salt petre & sugar type of thing which is hot and fun, but not fast like flash powder. Craig

Craig, > >On that note, does anyone know how to make flash powder (quick burning >gunpowder, like the kind in shells, etc.), i.e. NOT salt petre & sugar type >of thing which is hot and fun, but not fast like flash powder. > >Craig Flash power compounds are amoung the things that the professionals that compound this stuff for a living say, be V-E-R-Y C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L !-!-! with this stuff then quickly back out of the bunker. The only time I saw one of the more experienced explosive experts in the US get a little rattled was when he was asked to have one of his chemists compound common flash power for an experiment that we were doing. So be forewarned, there are places in the business of pyrotechnics that you may not want to go as an amateur. Phil Philip Starbuck (909) 792-7917 "There are three principal ways to lose money. Wine, women, and engineers. While the first two are more pleasant the third is by far the more certain." -- Baron Rothschild ca. 1860

Craig Webb wrote: {Quote hidden}> > At 12:26 PM 9/23/98 +0100, you wrote: > >Takes me back to my childhood when I spent many a happy hour making > explosives > >of various types, from simple chlorate/carbon to an attempt at > nitro-glycerine > >(don't worry - I took safety precautions - the test tubes were taped to long > >sticks). I have often thought that if the nitro had gone off it would > probably > >have taken entire house with it. I guess kids today get their thrills from > >video games and the like; it's a shame that they're distracted from taking up > >more wholesome pursuits. > > > >Geoff. > > On that note, does anyone know how to make flash powder (quick burning > gunpowder, like the kind in shells, etc.), i.e. NOT salt petre & sugar type > of thing which is hot and fun, but not fast like flash powder. > > Craig I have lots of info here somewhere, lost in the move <G> Your local library probably has something in their reserve section; Books from 1920-1950 called "Formularies" had a lot of these recipes, "Pyrotechnics" by George Weingard is another example of an OK book IIRC. I used to make a lot of goodies, upon a time... Mark, spam_OUTmwillisTakeThisOuTnwlink.com

In a message dated 9/23/98 11:27:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, .....starbuckKILLspam@spam@EMPIRENET.COM writes: << > >On that note, does anyone know how to make flash powder (quick burning >gunpowder, like the kind in shells, etc.), i.e. NOT salt petre & sugar type >of thing which is hot and fun, but not fast like flash powder. > >Craig >> I can tell you how to make "Flash Paper" or nitro cellulose. It was invented in the 1850's and went by the name smokeless gun powder. Its main claim to fame was to blowup the breech of the older muskets that couldn't take the increased pressure of this explosion. They used to mix it with vaseline (sp?) to slow the reaction and to lubricate the gun. I have made lots of this for theatrical effects. a friend of mine is a magician. He had trouble buying the comercial flash paper in the magic shops because California is the most anal retentive state in the union. He asked me to make some and after a little study I figured it out. I also read Chemistry of powders and explosives vol. 1 and 2 available from lindsy technical books. The other good book is Henly's formulas. It is from about 1925 but is still in print and sold mostly as a novelty book. I can get ISBN numbers if needed. The formula: (Don't blame me if you blow anything off. I'm just the messinger) You need equal parts of Nitric and Sulfuric acids. ordinary technical or industrial grade is OK. I used to get them in gallon jugs. Get a 5 gallon pickle jar. They are made by BALL and available wherever canning supplies are found. Mix (slowly) the Nitric and the sulfuric acids. Therewill be an exothermic reaction. The solution will get quite hot. You need to let it cool over night. Using a hot mixture will detroy your results and generate alot of very toxic red gas. If you see this gas get out and ventilate the area fast. It only takes a couple of wiffs of this to do major harm!!!!. If you are getting this gas your acids need to be cooled. Add to the acids, unfolded ZEE brand picnic napkins. Use the white ones (no dyes). Only do one napkin at a time. When the acid is fresh it will nitrate the napkin almost imediatly. As the acid weekens it will take longer. The napkin will retain its appearance but it will get stiff and crispy. Remove the napkin from the acid and place it in a large tub of water. repeat untill you have made sufficient quantity. Rinse all of the napkins thouroughly, Then put them in a pot of distilled water and boil them for 20 minutes or so. Remove the water and repeat. Do this untill you no longer get an acid reading with litmus paper. The more acid free the paper the longer it will last. Other wise it will slowly break down into garbage. Dispose of the acid by running it over potash or adding bakeing soda (VERY SLOWLY) and water to neutralize the acid. It can then be disposed of anywhere. The acid soulution will lose the nitric acid due to the reaction with the celulose in the paper but the sulfuric will remain. Sulfuric acid is Hydroscopic (absorbes water). That is its function here. The reaction with the nitric acid releases water. The water will act as a barrier to further nitration and you won't get much good paper. the Sulfuric acid removes the water and allows the nitric to perform its job. One gallon of nitric acid will nitrate about 1/2 pound of paper. KEEP THE PAPER WET UNTILL YOU NEED IT!!!!!!! Wet nitro cellulose won't detonate! My magician friend carried it moist around in a ziplock bag. Before a show he would remove a sheet or two and lay it flat and allow it to dry out for 30 minutes or so. This stuff will look like a napkin but when set alight it dissapears in a flash with little or no smoke and no ash. Dave Not responsible for anything done with this Duley

[Henly's Formulas] It is from about 1925 but is still in print and sold mostly as a novelty book. [Also Davis "Chemistry of Powder and Explosives" (1941)] [Also Weingart "Pyrotechnics" (1947)] One should keep in mind that processes and formulas that may have seemed "safe enough" some 50 years ago are NOT considered safe into todays more densely populated, urban, paranoid, lawyer-infested society. A moderate accident (one requiring a trip to the hospital) that might have gotten to a "tsk tsk, serves you right" from the doctor in 1950 might now get you jailed and facing a list of charges ranging from "reckless endangerment", to "construction of a destructive device", to "manufacturing explosives without a license" to "terrorist activities." That said, look at http://www.skylighter.com/books/ for more modern literature. I don't normally mind off-topic discussions, but this is getting WAY far away from PICs, and there ARE two newsgroups and several mailing lists that cover pyrotechnics, amateur rocketry, explosives, and so on. BillW

>In a message dated 9/23/98 11:27:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >.....starbuckKILLspam.....EMPIRENET.COM writes: > ><< > > > >On that note, does anyone know how to make flash powder (quick burning > >gunpowder, like the kind in shells, etc.), i.e. NOT salt petre & sugar type > >of thing which is hot and fun, but not fast like flash powder. > > > >Craig > >> >I can tell you how to make "Flash Paper" or nitro cellulose. It was invented <<<snip>>>> >dry out for 30 minutes or so. >This stuff will look like a napkin but when set alight it dissapears in a >flash with little or no smoke and no ash. > >Dave Not responsible for anything done with this Duley > Arrgghhh.... This is an excellent description on how to harm yourself!!!!! Sure it is a really easy way of making nitrocellulose, but the safety measures mentioned (were there any?) will easily get you into trouble. I did this, and a lot of more things with acids, powder, etc. And it really is dangerous stuff. When I was about 14 or 15, a friend of mine was mixing the acids to make nitroglicerin, without any cooling, and using only his hands. The test tube he was using got real hot and projected the mixture to the ceiling. I was outside, washing out a previous batch of nitroglicerin, and he came running and screaming that he got acid on his clothes. He stripped fast to his briefs and a minute or so later we checked the clothes and the ceiling. There were holes everywhere on the clothes and a large dark spot on the ceiling. Fortunately he was not harmed, just really scared. But this is only an example of what can happen when mixing acids carelessly. Recently I was working at a semiconductor plant, as a failure analysis engineer, and we used several acids (nitric, sulfuric, fluoridric, etc.) to open packages on ICs. Once, one of the technicias was going to open a small magnetic sensor, using boiling sulfuric acid, but he forgot to turn on the fumes extracting hood, and after about 2 minutes after the acid started to boil, the whole room was filled with acid vapor. You would not want to know what it feels like, it burns your throat and chest as hell, and we only had one or two breaths worth of acid. The whole building had to be evacuated, and I (using a special gas mask) was to clear the mess. Obviously I was the one to blame, because I was in charge. And fortunately no one was hurt (just a sore throat). What I really mean, is that nobody without help or sufficient knowledge should play with stuff this dangerous. Start with something simpler like the heads of matches wraped in foil to make tiny rockets, and then grow from there. Calvin (just another pyromaniac)

In a message dated 9/23/98 1:43:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, EraseMEbillwspam_OUTTakeThisOuTCISCO.COM writes: << One should keep in mind that processes and formulas that may have seemed "safe enough" some 50 years ago are NOT considered safe into todays more densely populated, urban, paranoid, lawyer-infested society. A moderate accident (one requiring a trip to the hospital) that might have gotten to a "tsk tsk, serves you right" from the doctor in 1950 might now get you jailed and facing a list of charges ranging from "reckless endangerment", to "construction of a destructive device", to "manufacturing explosives without a license" to "terrorist activities." That said, look at http://www.skylighter.com/books/ for more modern literature. I don't normally mind off-topic discussions, but this is getting WAY far away from PICs, and there ARE two newsgroups and several mailing lists that cover pyrotechnics, amateur rocketry, explosives, and so on. BillW >> Hi Bill! Too True! I have a friend that blows things up for the film industry here in California. He is a member of a pyrotechnic society. The had their west coast pyrotechnics convention in Arizona. They would't dare set foot in California. It is even getting hard to find toy caps! He told me that the way the law is set up in california, they will licence someone as a pyrotechnician but there are laws that make practicing their art illegal. That way if anything goes wrong they can put the blade and responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the technician. Time to move to Montana. Dave Duley