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'[OT] XP to 8.1'
2014\05\24@001330 by IVP

face picon face
Hi all,

I made the mistake of trying to ask Microsoft a simple question

An hour later I'm still none the wiser, after two chat sessions
terminated because my replies didn't send. Grrrrr. I got to say
hello to Cassandra and Shey S but that was about it

Trying to sort out the best and easiest way to update from XP to 8.1

I've got an XP PC. Two drives - C: boot and D: data. I'm going
to get a new clean drive to install 8.1 on, and make the current C:
boot drive a data drive, probably E: I guess

Can 8.1 access, read and use personal system files that were
created and that I use with XP - eg Favorites, Address Book,
email folders etc ? Using IE8 and OE6

TIA

Joe
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2014\05\24@050230 by David W. McGaffney

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On 05/24/2014 12:13 AM, IVP wrote:
{Quote hidden}

If you just need to get to the data...download a FREE copy Ubuntu Linux and burn it to a DVD.
Boot the DVD and "try" the operating system (don't install just yet)...
Linux can and will allow you to see/copy/save the windows files..
FREE is a word Microsoft has no concept of...
Depending on what you need the computer for you may want to install Linux on your old XP box...
I'm writing this on my 2006 Toshiba Laptop running Kubuntu Linux (another "flavor" of Linux)...
I have left behind Microsoft and their costly, unsecure, and buggy software...
Ubuntu has a suite of "Office" type software called "Libra Office" (also FREE) that can read/modify/write Microsoft documents/spreadsheets/databases/presentation (Powerpoint). It is installed by default.
It also has Mozilla Firefox and other "compatible" software and there is NO NEED for antivirus/malware and constant updates to "fix" a truly "broken" piece of software (Windows).
Dave
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2014\05\24@061820 by David

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On 24/05/2014 10:02, David W. McGaffney wrote:
>> Trying to sort out the best and easiest way to update from XP to 8.1
>>
>> I've got an XP PC. Two drives - C: boot and D: data. I'm going
>> to get a new clean drive to install 8.1 on, and make the current C:
>> boot drive a data drive, probably E: I guess
>>
> If you just need to get to the data...download a FREE copy Ubuntu Linux
> and burn it to a DVD.

If he needs the data, why wouldn't he just boot Windows XP?

David
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2014\05\24@062156 by IVP

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> If you just need to get to the data...download a FREE copy
> Ubuntu Linux and burn it to a DVD

Thanks

It might be time for a change, or at least have a Windows and
a Linux PC

I found this answer from 6 months ago, but have noted that
elsewhere "experts" seem unsure

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-ecoms/wwindows-81-importing-old-emails/a2d571dd-1f7f-4b8e-acf4-461b554a7fbf

I want to avoid "Yes you can, but ....."

Joe
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2014\05\24@084830 by RussellMc

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>
>
> >
>  T
> rying to sort out the best and easiest way to update from XP to 8.1
>

Apart from the issues you asked about, you may wish to be aware of other
differences which occur.

Up to WIN7 16 bit programs will run.
WIN8 & 8.1 will not run 16 bit programs natively.
You can use emulation which is free and which I'm told works well, but it
makes you do things that you otherwise would not need to do and may not
wish to do. Effectively you are (AIUI) building a separate machine
including a separate virtual hard drive.  Whether this bothers you is up to
you.

Going from WIN8 to WIN8.1 (or from anything 'less' than WIN8) breaks
additional programs, for reasons that I'm not aware of. You may wish to
ascertain whether WIN8.1 does all the things that you want it to.

WIN7 seems to be far more 'heritage' friendly. Whether WIN7 is n option por
whether you care is up to you.

I'm running WIN8 on this PC and it has a WIN8.1 'upgrade' nag screen after
booting. Options are doit & ask again later. "Go away" does not seem to
have been thought of.



          Russell
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2014\05\24@092221 by IVP

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> Effectively you are (AIUI) building a separate machine

I keep a 98 machine, wouldn't worry me to keep this PC as
an XP machine, and build a new PC for 8. Not sure now if I
want or need to go to the extra expense of 8.1

Dropped into DSE today, they aren't selling either 7 or Vista,
and it's not immediately apparent at Microsoft's store.

If you buy 7 off of eg Trademe, it's only $30 less than MS are
specialling 8. The prices are close enough to keep me undecided

I have simple needs as far as s/w goes. Much of it has been
on this machine for many many years. MPLAB, graphics
program, Nero, Cute FTP, various utilities, pretty basic stuff.

Joe
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2014\05\24@093618 by Carl Denk

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That whole transition from XP to 8.0 to 8.1 has been a disaster for me.
 WIN8 & 8.1 will not run 16 bit programs natively. You can use emulation which is free and which I'm told works well
Tell me more, where can I get it, issues, etc.

I dual boot Linux Ubuntu 6.04 on all my computers, but have a couple of applications that I haven't put the effort in to try to make work, but no one else from forms have been able to either apparently:
CMS Intellicad (an Autocad clone) $400. VBA wouldn't work on 8.0, but does on 8.1, but suddenly print preview is broke. Can't set the print windowThe Procad version worked on 8.0, haven't tried 8.1, it would be $500 instead of $150 annual upgrade.

Trilogi, Tri-PLC IDE for PLC's I work with is a early (1.14...) application, and after 8, and 8.1, a pain to get up and running correctly.

In general, from XP to 8.0 to 8.1, you can expect if it's not Microsoft super blessed software, then you will have to reinstall it from scratch, and Thunderbird E-mail accounts is an especial pain if you keep your data on a different drive. You can figure hours or even days of screwing around. Going from ME to XP was a breeze.

And then it keeps coming up with BOD (Blue screen of death), and currently WILL NOT SHUTDOWN, have to kill the power, Have spent more than a few hours trying to isolate what's the problem, think you find it, and it's back.

I see on TV, ads for a security system aimed at XP, but, I'm thinking it's too good to be true, and just another, that might even be harmful.

My 2nd computer (1G networked plus KVM switch) still has XP pro, I do have a 8.1 upgrade disk available, but going to leave it be. Have thought a little about downgrading 8.1 to 7 ?? :)   $130 or so.
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2014\05\24@095352 by RussellMc

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Admin comment:

Ridiculing operating systems or other software that one does not favour,
and the organisations that provide them, is a highly developed art form
carried on with, no doubt, great skill in many internet forums.

This is not one of them.

People are most welcome to post factual information regarding the pros and
cons of various O/S's that are pertinent to solving users' problems and/or
providing guidance re how various requirements may be best met.

Conversely, comments using terms such as buggy, unsecure, insecure, truly
broken, .... and other expressions of opinion and broad generalisations
without accompanying specific instances and / or factual  support are best
taken to forums where  there is no need to establish the merit or accuracy
of any claim. (Posts made primarily for the purposes of documenting
specific instances of problems etc in such software are also far better
made elsewhere.

FWIW:
1.  I have no axe to grind on Microsoft's behalf - but note that, while a
number of 'alternative' products do do a good job of providing the
functionality in each of the key areas, the integrated nature of their
suite of 'Office' products is unmatched by any competitor.

2. Anyone advising others that if they run my_preferred_OS then
"
there is NO NEED for antivirus/malware ..." may wish to ensure that their
associated disclaimers of liability are legally bulletproof".



         Russell McMahon
         PICList admin 1 of N, or whatever.



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2014\05\24@095834 by RussellMc

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On 25 May 2014 01:22, IVP <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
....

> I have simple needs as far as s/w goes. Much of it has been
> on this machine for many many years. MPLAB, graphics
> program, Nero, Cute FTP, various utilities, pretty basic stuff.
>

That was a point I was making - your olde steam driven software may well be
16 bit and if so it will not run natively on WIN8 or WIN8.1
Looking at your list - it's entirely possible that most of that is 16 bit.


             Russell
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2014\05\24@100702 by John Gardner

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16-bit pgms run on my 32-bit W8.1 Update tablet with NTVDM,

which must be installed (trivial), after which it is invisible to

the user; it all works so well I will admit to waiting for the other

shoe to drop - And also unfailingly create restore points before

applying updates; M$, leopards, spots, etc...
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2014\05\24@101435 by John Gardner

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....16-bit pgms run on my 32-bit W8.1 Update tablet with NTVDM,...

Hmm - Explicitly: NTVDM does  _not_  work on x64 machines.
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2014\05\24@101543 by Bob Ammerman

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Win 8.1 does not support Outlook Express in any way. I am not sure what it
would take to move your email database forward, but it is possible to move
it to full Outlook ($$).

Your IE favorites should be importable.

~ Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@102938 by Dom S

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I use Windows Mail (part of Live Essentials) on my 8.1 without an issue. It syncs with my various servers / Yahoo / Hotmail etc and it reasonably usable.

Dom


{Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@103906 by RussellMc

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On 25 May 2014 02:14, John Gardner <.....goflo3KILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...16-bit pgms run on my 32-bit W8.1 Update tablet with NTVDM,...
>
> Hmm - Explicitly: NTVDM does  _not_  work on x64 machines.
>

Alas, even the most entryest-level netbooks these days may be 64 bit.
As is the WIN8.1 one that I bought a few months ago.
That does not stop it being paint-drying slow.
An older netbook that I have running XP-Pro is much faster. Both have 2GB
of RAM.


               Russell
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2014\05\24@104331 by Allen Mulvey

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Only the install drive will be affected by the install so data stored on a
separate drive will be unaffected. If you are really paranoid you can
disconnect the other drives during the install.  I think Windows will always
recognize the boot drive as C: so your drive letters will probably change.
In Windows 8.1 you can right click the "start button" and use the drive
manager to set the letters to anything you want.
If you have data on the install drive, you can use the Microsoft Easy
Transfer Wizard. This will transfer your files and even accounts and
settings for Microsoft products to an external or network hard drive. Just
check the boxes for the stuff you want to transfer. Get the latest version
of the wizard from Microsoft (free) and use the same program to retrieve it
all back to your new machine.

If you need those old 16 bit programs, you can run XP in a virtual machine
under Windows 8.1 using Hyper-V. In fact, you can get disk2vhd and copy your
existing hard drive to a virtual drive.

You can find plenty of documentation for all of this on the Microsoft and
other web sites.
windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/windows-easy-t
ransfer

Allen


> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@104508 by John Guillory

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In the windows 8 newsgroup a guy posted a cool tip!  Go to the desktop on windows 8.  Right click and select toolbars, add new toolbar.  Navigate to c:\programdata\microsoft\windows\start menu\

May not be 100% right on the path, but when correct, and you find the start menu path, then when done, look to the far right of the task bar, just before the clock.  It now says start menu with 2 tiny arrows.  Click the arrows.  You now have a classic start menu!

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Pinger: 337-240-7890
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> On May 24, 2014, at 7:47 AM, RussellMc <.....apptechnzKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
>
> aware
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2014\05\24@104932 by John Guillory

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A lot of people mention you can install windows 8 on an older machine but you may hate yourself when you see how it runs!  Also, once you leave XP, depending on the version you may not go back.  I'd clone the drive or use another drive, etc...  I tried to install windows XP pro, and the registration server no longer works. Another machine uses another version of XP that doesn't need to be registered.  Wished I could find that cd!

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On May 24, 2014, at 8:22 AM, IVP <joecolquittspamspam_OUTclear.net.nz> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2014\05\24@110448 by Marcel Duchamp

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As you see, experiences with moving from XP to 8.1 are quite varied with many possible caveats.  Here's mine.  I converted two months ago from XP to 8.1 Pro.  Aside from a few 16 bit games, everything else that *I* use just works.

Here is one info bit no one else seems to have mentioned.  With 8.1 Pro, you can dual boot both 8.1 and XP.  Your original XP.  And the XP system will continue to run what ever you have installed on it just fine.

To do this, I defragged my 500gig XP drive and then installed 8.1Pro which took up 20gigs after installing various software packages.  XP shows up at boot time as some name like 'legacy operating system' and if you choose it, you get your old XP box running again. Otherwise, you boot to 8.1.  Eventually, I tossed the XP system and now just run 8.1

A very pleasant surprise was that 8.1 boots from power off to ready to use in maybe 20 seconds or so whereas my XP system took over 2 minutes.   And it shuts down fast as well.  Another surprise was that the license files for two mikroelektronika compilers still worked.

HTH.



On 5/23/2014 9:13 PM, IVP wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2014\05\24@122423 by David

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On 24/05/2014 16:04, Marcel Duchamp wrote:
> As you see, experiences with moving from XP to 8.1 are quite varied with
> many possible caveats.  Here's mine.  I converted two months ago from XP
> to 8.1 Pro.  Aside from a few 16 bit games, everything else that *I* use
> just works.

Take a look at DOSBox perhaps.  This should work quite well for the
remainder of your games.

David

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2014\05\24@124943 by John Gardner

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....Alas, even the most entryest-level netbooks these days may be 64 bit...

An analog of my tablet in a small netbook form factor might be near

ideal for my piddlin' requirements - Especially if the bulk of the extra

mass is in the battery.

My only x64 experience is my W7HP laptop ( i7 / 2.2 GHz / 8 GB RAM ).

Have'nt run benchmarks, but the W8.1.1 x86 tablet is noticeably faster.

It looks like 16-bit aficionados can:

- Grab a 32-bit platform while they still roam the Earth.

- Resign themselves to virtual machines, DosBOX (which works great
  on my tablet, btw), and the like...

- Put together a PC with one of the 386-SOC that are still out there, last
  time I looked.
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2014\05\24@135134 by David W. McGaffney

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On 05/24/2014 09:53 AM, RussellMc wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Russ...
I have nothing against you or anyone else using Microsoft products..It is your choice...I see no reason to spend $80~$130 for a operating system that people are staying away from in droves... As far as the security from attacks Microsoft is continually updating their OS's (even win8) because it is inherently not secure from attacks... Or an Office suite that costs $500 decked out...
I made a suggestion about how continue to gain access to his data (which he wanted) and how to do it for FREE... It is TOTALLY up to him to make an informed decision... There are other (and I do believe better options) than blindly paying Microsoft for a product no one wants..

Software for Linux for the most part is FREE and is as good or better than what Microsoft SELLS.  It is updated when problems (bugs) are found and new versions of your favorites are also free... How many windows versions are available specifically customized by Microsoft for it's users? (maybe 4?)    How many "flavors/versions" are available for Linux users? Hundreds!  Open source software encourages innovation and creativity that is "openly" shared between versions... Not so with Microsoft ...

Lots of people buy car keep buying a specific make car because they have "always" bought that make and model when a better and less expensive make and model would suit them better...It's their choice..

Russ you show me a security breach like what had happened on Target's "Microsoft Servers" OS on a Linux/Unix Server... The hackers love Windows.

Even ebay has had a breach on their SUN Solaris Servers recently... Linux/Unix (like Solaris) is inherently MORE secure than Microsoft's products.. Sure it could happen but much less likely...

How about the popularity of the Windows OS for cell phones?
Again Linux (Android is a Linux "flavor") is the favorite and no one notices it "isn't" Windows..

The TV set top boxes... (like RoKu) again.. most are Linux with the exception of the AppleTV...

Raspberry Pi also supports a version of Debian Linux (I have a B version RPi running XBMC (multimedia) that serves my videos via HDMI in high def and runs off of a "micro usb wall wart" . Can windows do that?  No.

Linux has it's place and it works...New aps are being written every day and people want it...
Window8 for cell phones no one wants...

That is why I chose Linux "flavors" for my machines and finally ditched my need for Microsoft.
Simple math and logic..
Dave
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2014\05\24@141229 by Bob Blick

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Hi Dave,

I'm also an admin here and I need to tell you to stop digging. The hole
you are making is getting a little deep.

If all you needed was simple math and logic you needn't have used the
words you chose.

Operating systems are like religion. I know that's not something that
should need saying, but right now it important to just put on some good
music and relax.

Thanks.

Bob


On Sat, May 24, 2014, at 10:51 AM, David W. McGaffney wrote:

> Simple math and logic..
> Dave

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2014\05\24@141945 by David

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On 24/05/2014 18:51, David W. McGaffney wrote:
> Russ you show me a security breach like what had happened on Target's
> "Microsoft Servers" OS on a Linux/Unix Server... The hackers love Windows..

blogs.technet.com/b/security/archive/2014/04/10/microsoft-devices-and-services-and-the-openssl-heartbleed-vulnerability.aspx
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2014\05\24@175121 by RussellMc

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Hat: PICList administrator, late Autumn style, with feather.
Tone: Whatever.

Note - this is an official administrator request.
Please take note of what's requested.

Also PLEASE DO continue the XP to WIN8.x discussion, which has been most
useful.

_________

>
> >
> ...
> how me a security breach
> ...
> on a Linux/Unix Server...
>

>
...
openssl-heartbleed-vulnerability.aspx<blogs.technet.com/b/security/archive/2014/04/10/microsoft-devices-and-services-and-the-openssl-heartbleed-vulnerability.aspx>
....
Er. Yes. That did come to mind.
And 'support' of all welcomed.
But this is the sort of thing I was talking about in my prior post, and
added to by Bob.
In very little time at all this ramps up into a religious bun-fight.
Religious bun fights have their place (O/S related and other).
But it's not on PICList.

PLEASE y'all drop the subject of O/S security etc in this thread   - the
original XP to 8.1 subject had quite enough "uSoft could/should have done
...." fun and games for all.



       Russell

Discards hat. Looks for warm jacket  ...


PS: If anyone wants to regale me offlist with any related matter, OS
failings, how bad the admins are, the fact that it's not Autumn (it is) or
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2014\05\24@182009 by IVP

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> Also, once you leave XP, depending on the version you may
> not go back

Painting myself into a corner does concern me.

And that could happen if I chose to have only one PC, stripping
XP out and installing 8. Unless all you wanted the PC for was
Facebook or Twitter or playing videos that might be foolish

I do tend not to throw things away just because they're old. This
XP has had all the patches and service packs and I'm quite happy
with it. It just .... works, and well enough for what I want to do

What has probably put the wind up me is the end of support and
possible security implications.

Maybe I don't actually need to change, until perhaps my hand is
really forced by something like a drive failure.

Thanks for all the comments

Joe
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2014\05\24@182009 by IVP

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> I tried to install windows XP pro, and the registration server
> no longer works

If I stuck with XP then that's the sort of thing I want to avoid.

Although MS have ended support, I don't know if the support
they have provided in the past (security updates, patches, and
service packs etc) is still available as legacy support

In other words, if I were to install XP from the original disk
right now, could it ever be brought up to date ? Presumably if
the registration server no longer works, MS won't acknowledge
any attempt to download legacy support, even it it's still there
on another server (which I'm sure it is)

I know you can buy extended support time, but enabling that
free for the great unwashed wouldn't do sales of 8 any good.

The best I could probably do to keep XP alive in the condition
it's in now would be to just keep cloning it to other drives

Joe
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2014\05\24@182109 by cdb

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W8 and 8.1 have different registry entries for some programs especially disk and firewall programs - the fltvsrv entries are in different places.

LapLink do a conversion program, can't remember how much they charge though.
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2014\05\24@182631 by IVP

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> Also PLEASE DO continue the XP to WIN8.x discussion, which
> has been most useful.

I agree.

It's certainly got me thinking about what I need, what I want, and
what I'm told I need or want

Joe
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2014\05\24@184425 by Carl Denk

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On 5/ Maybe I don't actually need to change, until perhaps my hand is really forced by something like a drive failure. Thanks for all the comments Joe

Pick up a spare drive, use Clonezilla, one of the Disc manufacturer's transfer program to make a clone drive, and stick it in a closet. I don't know if you could clone it to a DVD or Blueray disc.

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2014\05\24@190550 by Bob Axtell

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my feelings exactly.

--Bob A
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2014\05\24@190941 by Bob Ammerman

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In re: xp registration server availability

It is my understanding, based on some googling but no personal experience,
that the WinXP registration servers _are_ still available, and that the
update servers are also functioning. There were some issues reported where
the telephone-based registration function might no longer be available.

~ Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@191056 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
_I_ would like to be clear about why China has banned Win8 from their gov't computers. Anybody know?
--Bob A
-- On 5/24/2014 3:44 PM, Carl Denk wrote:
> On 5/ Maybe I don't actually need to change, until perhaps my hand is
> really forced by something like a drive failure. Thanks for all the
> comments Joe
>
> Pick up a spare drive, use Clonezilla, one of the Disc manufacturer's
> transfer program to make a clone drive, and stick it in a closet. I
> don't know if you could clone it to a DVD or Blueray disc.
>

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2014\05\24@195817 by cdb

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:: Painting myself into a corner does concern me.

One of the things Windows 8.1 will allow is for it to be booted from a virtual machine, so, so long as the boot manager is installed on the PC, you could boot W8.1 from a VHD/VHDX image on another drive (USB even) and still have your physical version of XP on the machine. Or you could convert the XP machine to a VM and then run that in W8.1

Colin
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2014\05\24@195834 by IVP

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> WinXP registration servers _are_ still available, and that the
> update servers are also functioning

If true, that suggests I could get a clean drive and install a modern
XP on it, to use now or later. But it will never be patched any more
than it already is because of the end of support

If that's an O/S that for example never sees the web or another PC
then it should be quite secure and stable for many years to come

Joe
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2014\05\24@195956 by cdb

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I would first make a complete disk image of your system before doing anything. I would also make a slipstreamed version of XP so it contains all the updates so far on your system.

Colin
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2014\05\24@201030 by Bob Blick

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In the news it is because of the China-US and US-China spying and the
posturing that China is doing in order to look tough, saying they don't
trust Windows 8.

Anything else is just speculation.

Because I doubt they have any internet-connected machines of any
operating system with anything super-secret on them. "We" certainly
don't.

For all we know they are using it as a bargaining tactic to get a better
volume discount from Microsoft :)

Bob

On Sat, May 24, 2014, at 04:10 PM, Bob Axtell wrote:
> _I_ would like to be clear about why China has banned Win8 from their
> gov't computers. Anybody know?
> --Bob A

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2014\05\24@202610 by John Guillory

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Do you have a link to how trivial?  And is a reformat necessary?

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2014\05\24@203824 by John Guillory

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I never could reach them but maybe it was just me...
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> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@210639 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
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My current favorite is Windows 7 Professional 32 bit.

Most stuff runs perfectly on it because it's 32 bit, and if it doesn't,
or there aren't drivers, it comes with Virtual PC, a licensed copy of
XP, and a cool feature called "XP Mode". Programs run in XP mode are
really running on XP, but they share the Windows 7 desktop, start menu,
drives, printers(using either XP or Windows 7 drivers, or both!), etc.

It's about $100 on eBay for a new copy, but I think it's worth it.

And it means your old programs like Outlook Express will work in Windows
7.

Friendly regards, Bob

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2014\05\24@213707 by John Gardner

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Virtual PC is (last time I looked) a free download from M$

(x86 and x64).

It works fine on my W7 Home Pro x64 laptop (with DOS

6.22 - Have'nt tried to install XP, but it's alleged to work).

Interestingly, VPC refuses to install on my W8 tablet. I expect

that's been deliberately disabled, in favor of selling it as part

of an "Upgrade" to the W8 baseline package...


Never a dull moment with the wily gentlemen of Redmond.
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2014\05\24@220106 by Bob Blick

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Worse than that, running it on 8 isn't available at any price.

VirtualBox would be my second choice, but I haven't tried it on Win8.

Bob

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2014\05\24@222037 by John Gardner

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Bob -

I re-discovered NTVDM in-line with my VPC/W8 experiment,

so did'nt pursue the VPC angles, but did turn up a link  which

proposed a method to sidestep W8s refusal to install it.


I probably bookmarked it - If it turns up I'll post it ...
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2014\05\24@223004 by cdb

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:: VirtualBox would be my second choice, but I haven't tried it on
:: Win8.

I have VB running on W8 and 8.1 with 8.1 and W7 plus REACTOS and ElementaryOS in VMs.

REACT has great potential, it just needs a bit more work.  REACT is an XP clone using what they call legal (under US law) white room reverse engineering plus new stuff.
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2014\05\24@224522 by Allen Mulvey

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Virtual PC ended with Windows 7. Windows 8 uses Hyper-V which is generally
hardware assisted and much more efficient. I've used both. A virtual machine
makes an excellent sandbox for testing software.

Allen

> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\24@231237 by John Gardner

picon face
....Hyper-V...

My experience with W8's raw "Compatibility Mode" is that some

things work, many things don't, and there's no rhyme or reason

to it except to try it and see (if your software is on the list?)

I would'nt mind being disabused of this notion, though.
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2014\05\25@224231 by John Guillory

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Actually, same as windows 7, you have to have the pro version or better.  
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2014\05\25@233726 by Peter

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On 25/05/2014 12:38 AM, RussellMc wrote:
> On 25 May 2014 02:14, John Gardner <RemoveMEgoflo3TakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ...16-bit pgms run on my 32-bit W8.1 Update tablet with NTVDM,...
>>
>> Hmm - Explicitly: NTVDM does  _not_  work on x64 machines.
>>
> Alas, even the most entryest-level netbooks these days may be 64 bit.
> As is the WIN8.1 one that I bought a few months ago.
> That does not stop it being paint-drying slow.
> An older netbook that I have running XP-Pro is much faster. Both have 2GB
> of RAM.
>
>
>                  Russell
Hi Russell and all:

I have also found there to be a VERY noticeable speed difference.
My XP pro 32 bit 4GB of RAM laptop (has lots and lots of working and used-all-the-time software loaded), is much much faster than my WIN8.1  64bit 16GB of RAM laptop, (has basically only minimum software installed), which is also only a few months old - I don't like it at all - My work output has slowed on the WIN8.1 - For me upgrading was NOT a good idea!.
I see 8.1 as a fail, and I thought w7 was bad!  - I refused w8.0 when I sighted it first hand.

I'm back to using XP - ...it just works (with a well maintained backup system) !

I have written many custom pieces of software for my XP machine, and to use WIN8.1 seems like I have gone back in time -  8.1 - it's horrible !

Sometimes it feels like we - may as well go back to 3.11 -  (I have that too, and 98se - working)

The speed issue seems - wrong  on many points !     ...something is a miss!

Peter

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2014\05\26@000935 by IVP

face picon face
www.techrepublic.com/article/what-to-do-if-you-love-windows-xp-and-hate-windows-8/
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2014\05\26@005340 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Hello,
    Is there a tool available that I can use to analyze my machine and point out any defeciencies that need to be rectified before Win8.x will run at a reasonable speed? My machine is a 2 GB, dual Opteron running at 2.4GHz. The video board is a ATI Radeon 9600 with 256MB of ram on board. Is this enough for Win8x? Hard drive space is no concern as I have multiple 300 GB drives.
Thanks,
rich!

On 5/25/2014 10:24 PM, Peter wrote:
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2014\05\26@015519 by Peter

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On 26/05/2014 2:09 PM, IVP wrote:
> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/what-to-do-if-you-love-windows-xp-and-hate-windows-8/
>
Hi Joe:

Thanks for the link - it's interesting to read the different comments - I haven't read alot of the comments yet because of work commitments but I'll try to.
At least I'm not the only one.

I just seem to programme and have a quicker work output much faster on wXPpro machine - w8x on the other hand - well - slow isn't an advancement at all.

I work with PC's in the data industry as well, and have seen real world examples of all the different O/S versions from many peoples points of views.

I have tried all the previous versions and I come back to wXPpro - it just works!

I have repaired / recovered data from many... many... hundreds of PC's to date - probably alot more than that, in lots of different home/work environments.

I just can't get w8x to work well - anyway I should stop now - work to do.




ps.  I should point out that I'm not anti windows O/S, but this time MS has created what - hmmmm!

Peter
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2014\05\26@020549 by James Cameron

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On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:53:38PM -0500, Richard R. Pope wrote:
>      Is there a tool available that I can use to analyze my machine
> and point out any defeciencies that need to be rectified before
> Win8.x will run at a reasonable speed?

The best method I know is to take baseline measurements of speed, make
a very good complete backup, verify that the backup can be restored on
spare hardware, try the upgrade, and repeat the measurements.

Can be done with a spare hard drive too, once you have backups you are
happy with.

-- James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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2014\05\26@024010 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Hello Peter,
    I read the main post. I think that wrote is leaning towards Linux. Well here is a new joke to run around with:
How do you make a super computer run like a C-64? Answer: Install Win 8.x.
Thanks,
rich!

On 5/26/2014 12:55 AM, Peter wrote:
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2014\05\26@083725 by RussellMc

face picon face
On 26 May 2014 16:53, Richard R. Pope <RemoveMEmechanic_2KILLspamspamcharter.net> wrote:

> ...
> Win8.x
> ...
> run at a reasonable speed?



> >
> My machine is a 2 GB,


AFAIK 2 GB is on the low side.
4 GB much better if possible.
____________

I have a netbook running 8.1 with 2 GB and a much higher specd "desktop"
running 8 with 8GB.

The 2GB netbook runs "slowly" with a bare minimum of items open and swaps
to "very slow" with only a modest amount open. While I would not guarantee
that paging is the main culprit I believe that that is the case.

The 8GB machine runs "crisply" until a manifestly excessive* number of tabs
+ windows are open and then quite suddenly starts walking strange. Programs
will open but not load certain items or fail to display images on some
cases. Some failures are subtle. All such "too much open" failures seem to
be curable by closing a few open items. Again, while I have not sought to
analyse what the specific cause of the problem is, it's clearly "running
out of resources". It does not appear to be a paging issue as waiting does
not bring things right.

* Unfortunately, I like to have more than a manifestly excessive number of
tabs + windows open so this can be a major nuisance.

Working OK at present on 8GB machine are:
4 x Chrome - with 34, 2, 2, 1 tabs
8 Irfanview
5 Explorer
1 Word
2 Excel
1 Exposure Plot
1 Acrobat reader

      Russell
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2014\05\26@090252 by Allen Mulvey

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Run the Windows Upgrade Assistant found here:
windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/upgrade-assistant-download-onli
ne-faq
Check this FAQ:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

The Upgrade Advisor will tell you about potential problems most of which can
be resolved by setting the compatibility to "run as administrator."

Your hardware should be more than sufficient.

My experience, unlike most on this list, has been that Windows 8.1 boots
*much* faster, runs faster, and almost never hangs, I can't remember having
seen a BSOD. My only complaint is that they hid most of the administrative
stuff. My first day I almost gave up in frustration but I am glad I didn't.

Allen


> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\26@091734 by RussellMc

face picon face
On 27 May 2014 01:02, Allen Mulvey <allenSTOPspamspamspam_OUTamulvey.com> wrote:

Your hardware should be more than sufficient.
>

Allen

1. Do you / have you run WIN8.1 with 2 GB of RAM?

2. What is the spec of the system that you upgraded that runs faster on
WIN8.1?
What did you upgrade from?

3. Did you have to reinstall all/some/no programs?




              Russell
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2014\05\26@121057 by Allen Mulvey

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I have virtual machines running both Windows XP and Windows 8.1 (both 32
bit) in 2048 MB ram. They work quite well. Before replying to this I dropped
the Windows 8.1 ram to 1024 MB and was surprised at how well it ran. I did
not do any extensive tests, just opened and edited a Word document and
Internet Explorer. Boot and load times were a bit slower but not unbearably
so. At the same time my host had Outlook and other programs open.

The Windows 8.1 virtual machine has Office 2010 Pro installed.

My host machine is as follows (I think the processor runs a little over 3
GHZ):

Operating System
       Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
CPU
       AMD A8-5500
       Trinity 32nm Technology
RAM
       16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 791MHz (10-10-10-27)
Motherboard
       Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. F2A85X-UP4 (P0)
Graphics
       ASUS VS247 (1920x1080@60Hz)
       K224W DVI (1680x1050@60Hz)
       1024MB NVIDIA GeForce 210 (ASUStek Computer Inc)

Allen

> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\26@180856 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Allen,
    The upgrade wizard only works on Win7 or higher. There was another upgrade wizard but it doesn't work either. If I am going to be forced to upgrade my hardware I'm going to make a dual boot Linux, XP machine. I'll use Linux for my browsing, email, coropondance, graphics, music, and others. I use Firefox and Thunderbird so there is no problem there. I'll try to find Linux programs to do everything except play my games. Another reason for this is that I am on SSD and I just don't have the money to upgrade my hardware. Since the newest graphics cards require PCx that means a new motherboard which means new memory and probably most of my hard drives will have to be replaced since they are PATA instead of SATA drives. OUCH1 This means a major investment in new hardware that I can't afford. Also Win8.x isn't exactly cheap.
Thanks,
rich! :(

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2014\05\26@181706 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Allen,
    Nope, My machine won't run Win8.x. You need support for PAE, NX, and SSE2. My hardware doesn't have that support. It will run Win7.
Thanks,
rich!

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2014\05\26@193252 by Allen Mulvey

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The link below to the Windows 8.1 Upgrade Wizard is broken by the mailer. If
you past it together you will get to the right place. There is no point
assuming you can't install the software without at least running the wizard
to find out.

Allen

> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\26@200800 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Allen,
    I have done the research on the MS website for upgrading to Win8.x. Your system motherboard and processor or processors must support SSE2 and the NX bit. If the motherboard and the processor do not support both of these items Win8.x will not even install let a lone run. There is a work around for the installer but with out the NX bit being set in the processor Win8.x won't run. To set that bit the motherboard must support it in the BIOS.
    My Opetron processors have the NX bit but there is no way to set it since my BIOS doesn't support it. Sorry but this a fact of life. I have a feeling that there are a lot of computers out there that won't be able to run Win8.x. So again we are being forced to upgrade our hardware. Before it was because the hardware just wasn't fast enough. My hardware has more than enough speed. But since my Tyan S2885 Thunder K8W does not support the NX bit Win8.x won't run on it. Adding more ram is not that big a deal. If I were to buy the next Windows version I would get the 64 bit version which allows up to 18.4467 ExaBytes. Which is over 18 GB-GB. I think that will be plenty of memory for the forseeable future. The PAE extension allows the 32 bit OSs to support more than 4 GB of memory.
    I would say that Win8.x is going to want a lot of ram. Something that I do when I build a system is to use a drive that is dedicated to being just the swap drive. I usually use a drive that is twice the size of my ram. I always put it on a different channel from the system drive. Under PATA and SATA, hard drives on the same channel cannot multitask. By putting them on different channels the system drive and the swap drive can be accessed at the same time. Of course that problem goes away with SCSI but as we all know SCSI drives are many times more expensive than PATA or SATA drives. Also they aren't available in sizes much bigger than 250GB. I believe that most of the extra cost is due to scale of economies. For every 100,000 or a million of the ATA drives there is probably only 1 or 10 SCSI drives produced.
Thanks,\
rich!

On 5/26/2014 6:32 PM, Allen Mulvey wrote:
> The link below to the Windows 8.1 Upgrade Wizard is broken by the mailer. If
> you past it together you will get to the right place. There is no point
> assuming you can't install the software without at least running the wizard
> to find out.
>
> Allen
>
>> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\26@205142 by Allen Mulvey

flavicon
face
Yes, I got your other messages soon after sending my last response.

Allen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamEraseMEmit.edu [KILLspampiclist-bouncesspamBeGonespammit.edu] On Behalf
Of
> Richard R. Pope
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 8:08 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] XP to 8.1
>
> Allen,
>      I have done the research on the MS website for upgrading to Win8.x.


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2014\05\26@210731 by Richard R. Pope

picon face
Allen,
    Yep, that happens. Things cross in the mail. :) Tyan's email server is kicking my emails back so I will have to call them tomorrow about my motherboard.
Thanks,
rich!

On 5/26/2014 7:51 PM, Allen Mulvey wrote:
> Yes, I got your other messages soon after sending my last response.
>
> Allen
>
>> {Original Message removed}

2014\05\27@044437 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
Those with XP, and wanting to continue with patches instead of paying for them, may be interested in this article ...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/german_tinkerer_gets_around_xpocalypse/


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2014\05\27@204122 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face
I used this utility (from laplink) to transfer when I upgraded my mom's machine recently:
www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2454484,00.asp
It seemed to work pretty well, but note that I wouldn't rate this as a "challenging" install in the first place, and it went from an old XP machine to a new 8.1 machine, so I wasn't burning any bridges.


> Win 8.1 does not support Outlook Express in any way.

"Windows Live EMail" seems to be a pretty natural replacement.


> even the most entryest-level netbooks these days may be 64 bit.

Hell yes; 4G of memory isn't enough any more :-(

BillW

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2014\05\27@212051 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 27/05/2014 21:41, William "Chops" Westfield escreveu:
> I used this utility (from laplink) to transfer when I upgraded my mom's machine recently:
> www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2454484,00.asp
> It seemed to work pretty well, but note that I wouldn't rate this as a "challenging" install in the first place, and it went from an old XP machine to a new 8.1 machine, so I wasn't burning any bridges.
>
>
>> Win 8.1 does not support Outlook Express in any way.
> "Windows Live EMail" seems to be a pretty natural replacement.


I use Thunderbird and it is great. I have it installed in four different
machines I and let it keep the folders up-to-date in all of them, so I
have four redundant copies of all my e-mails.

Older versions of Thunderbird, when configured as POP client, by default
deleted the messages it downloaded, then the first action I used to do
when installing it was to enable the "Keep messages in the server..."
options. In more recent versions these options are enabled by default,
thus allowing several instances of Thunderbird keeping copies of all the
messages.

It is also possible to transfer all the messages from one machine to
another. When I replaced my old Satellite by a Qosmio, I simply copied
the directiories that kept the message folders from the old machine to
the new one and all my emails were immediately available in the new machine..

Using this same method, it is also possible to back-up all of your emails.

Isaac

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2014\05\27@222029 by RussellMc

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On 28 May 2014 12:41, William "Chops" Westfield <EraseMEwestfwspamEraseMEmac.com> wrote:

> I used this utility (from laplink) to transfer when I upgraded my mom's
> machine recently:
> www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2454484,00.asp
> It seemed to work pretty well,


Note:

          ... a free **** data *** *migration tool

Programs will be "another thing".


         Russell
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2014\05\28@134155 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On May 27, 2014, at 7:19 PM, RussellMc wrote:

> Programs will be "another thing".

Oh certainly.  I'm not even aware of a utility to move programs from one XP system to another, short of full backup utilities (and most backup utilities these days don't seem to be "full" backup utilities) or re-installing from the original media.  Considering the way that Windows applications tend to scatter DLLs all over system and private directories, stash various information in random registries, and pull in dependencies from who-knows-where..

BillW

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