Searching \ for '[OT] Wire wrapping questions' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=wire+wrapping+questions
Search entire site for: 'Wire wrapping questions'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Wire wrapping questions'
1999\01\19@125439 by Toby Stensland

flavicon
face
I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few questio
ns, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:

Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few other IC
s and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?

Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

What holds the sockets in the perf board?

We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any experienc
e or reviews?

What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?


Toby Stensland                                                 spam_OUTtobyTakeThisOuTspamstensland.co
m
3112 South Independence Court
Lakewood, CO  80227

http://www.stensland.com

1999\01\19@132519 by Matt Bennett

flavicon
face
At 09:50 AM 1/19/99 , you wrote:
>I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few
questions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:
>
>Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few
other ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

For unique circuits, I really, really like wire-wrapping.  Duplication gets
very tedious, but errors are usually pretty easy to fix.  Wire wrap is my
choice for 1st generation prototypes.

>Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

Nope, anything that your wire wrap sockets will fit into will work.

>What holds the sockets in the perf board?

You can get boards that have solder pads around each hole, and you can
solder the sockets in.  For my prototypes, I just stick them in, and allow
the friction of the board and the socket to hold them in, until the wires
are on, which hold them pretty well.  This will not work very well if this
device is subject to vibration, motion, etc.

>We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any
experience or reviews?

I'd go for the AC powered version, unless the ability to wirewrap in places
without power is vital.

>What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?

30 ga. has worked well for me.


Other notes:

Used open frame wire wrap sockets and solder the decoupling cap directly to
the socket.

Wire point to point, using the shortest possible wire if at all possible.
Avoid long stretches of paralell wires (to avoid crosstalk).  It usually
works out that
the messier it looks (more like a rats-nest) the better it will be for
things like crosstalk.

You can get ground plane perf board (with reliefs around each hole).

Use multiple colors of wire, and be consistent in their use (for example,
black for ground, red for +5, analog in blue, digital in yellow, etc.).

The biggest problem I've found in wire wrapping: inadequate power and
ground.  If your perf board doesn't have it, consider making separate power
and ground busses, Solder filled solder wick works quite well for a low
impedance power bus.

Wire power and ground first,

Plan ahead.

Once the design is finalized, you can give it a bit more ruggedness by
soldering each one of the wraps you have done.  But be careful, the
insulation will pull back with too much heat.

Use a spring loaded wire wrapping tool- This will give you much more
consistent wraps, especially for a beginner.

I've used wire-wrap on many projects, some with clock speeds > 30 MHz.  It
will get much tougher as you increase speed to get sharp edges, eliminate
crosstalk, etc.  I have had absolutely no problems with any of my 10MHz
circuits (16F84, 16C71).

Matt Bennett
.....mjbKILLspamspam@spam@arlut.utexas.edu

1999\01\19@132932 by Matt Bonner

flavicon
face
Toby Stensland wrote:
>
> Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few other
ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

Generally, a PCB product will be more reliable over the long term.  That
said, I once wirewrapped a design in which only 2 finished products were
required for an oceanographic survey boat.  No micro, but 20 or so ICs
(this was 1980).  Last I heard (1990) the 2 products were still ticking.
>
> Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

I always liked the perf board with nothing but copper pads - hard to
find today though.  You could always get some general-purpose
prototyping boards made (with a couple of rows of 300 mil spaced pads
with connecting pads, room for discretes, and power rails).
>
> What holds the sockets in the perf board?

On non-copper perf board, I used to use non-acidic silicon (RTV 4385?).

> We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any experie
nce or reviews?
>
Years ago I swore by handwrapping tools until I used an electric tool.
Used properly, these tools make extremely reliable connections.  Get a
good (expensive) stripping tool, otherwise even a small knick in the
conductor will cause problems.

> What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?
>
30 gauge is the most common.  I always preferred 28.

--Matt

1999\01\19@135822 by Reginald Neale

flavicon
face
Toby asked:

>I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few
>questions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:
>
>Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few
>other ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

 Well, it's one possibility. Not good for high freq (>1mHz)
 or fast circuits, though.

>
>Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?

 There's probably a web page for everything, but I don't know of
 a good wire-wrapping one offhand to steer you to.
>
>Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

 No.
>
>What holds the sockets in the perf board?

 Once you've wrapped a wire on them, the pins won't fit back
 through the holes. You may want to glue the sockets on just
 to keep them in place before they're wire-wrapped.
>
>We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any
>experience or reviews?

 I've used it. It's "OK"  ;-)
>
>What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?

 It requires a special wire. I think the standard gauge is 28. It's
 a solid silver-plated wire with Kynar insulation.
>

 Vector makes a wire-wrap pin for holding a single component lead.
 That makes it possible to use discrete components. Or you can
 use a wire-wrap header socket and wire discretes to it.
 There's a certain amount of skill involved. Nothing you can't get
 a pretty good handle on in an hour or so. Make sure you have an
 *unwrapping* tool :-) You'll probably save yourself some headaches
 if you make out a to-from list for each wire ahead of time, and
 then double-check it, and check your completed circuit agains the
 list with a test light when you're through. Mirror-image wrapping
 errors are VERY common.

 Good Luck!

 Reg Neale

1999\01\19@142135 by Lee Jones
flavicon
face
> Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a
> few other ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

I make prototypes with it.  I used to make limited production
run boards using wire wrapping -- got boring, but the final
product was quite reliable (decade plus in service; removed
because the equipment it was hooked to was replaced).

When I have components that don't fit in sockets (e.g. IR
receiver modules) or where wire wrap pins are inconvenient
(e.g. power transistors), I still "wire wrap" them.  Wrap
one end of the wire normally around the WW pin.  At the
other (non-WW pin) end, use a pair of needle nose pliers,
wrap the wire around the lead, and then solder that end.

In fact, precut & prestripped wire wrap wire makes great
wire for point-to-point solder connections.

Couple of hints that you might find handy.

For each board, I had a separate photocopy of the schematic.
Then after each wire was wrapped in place (on both ends), I
would highlight that run on the drawing.  It made it possible
to have lunch or take a phone call without losing track.

If you are connecting more than 2 pins, don't daisy chain; use
alternating bridges.  For example, say you're connecting pins
A, B, C, D, & E.  Wire wrap A-B and C-D.  Then wrap B-C and D-E
on the next layer.  Especially during prototyping, if you need
to redo a run, like A-B, this lowers the number of unwrappings
& rewrappings required.


> What holds the sockets in the perf board?

Friction.  If that's not enough, I've used epoxy on the frame
of the socket (not the pins) to hold it in place until the
wires are on.


> We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool,
> any experience or reviews?

Worked fine.  Use ni-cad batteries; alkalines don't have enough
current capability.  Or buy the AC (aka mains powered) version.

The spring loaded tip helps give consistent wraps when you are
just starting or when you're exhausted.


> What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?

I used the precut & prestripped 30 gauge wire for most runs.  It
used to be available in assortments that varied by 1/2" (~1cm)
in length.  Stripping wire is time consuming.

I'd prewire the power & ground planes first with a heavier,
usually 24, gauge wire (via needle nose pliers & soldering).

                                               Lee Jones

1999\01\19@171438 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few quest
ions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:
>
> Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few other
ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?
>

It depends. WW is excellent for prototyping and as reasonable endurance under
indoor conditions. As long as the environment isn't abusive, WW does ok.

> Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?

I haven't seen one. I learned by practice and the instructions on the back
of the RatShack WW tool.

>
> Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

Nope.

>
> What holds the sockets in the perf board?

The wrapped wire. I normally push my connections snug with the tool after
wrapping a pin the first time. This usually keeps the socket in place.

>
> We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any experie
nce or reviews?
>

Experience: BAD
Reviews: BAD

I've had absolutely no luck with any auto stripping/wrapping tools. They are
the worst because they make flaky connections. By this I mean that a connection
may work today or tomorrow, but all of a sudden three days later the project
no longer works due to a loose connection.

Take my advise, use a hand tool and strip the wire by hand. You'll be so far
ahead in the long run it isn't funny.

I've hand wrapped a 68020 and 68340 microcomputer along with countless PIC
projects. All work as advertised.

> What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?

Normal 30 gauge Kynar wire wrap wire is fine.

I just finished having an experience of trying to solder up a Christmas
light controller on a RatShack solder experimenters board. After hours of
foil lifting and bridged solder connections, even with the tiny tip and the
.022 diameter solder, I was longing for wire wrap.

Good Luck.

BAJ

1999\01\19@201000 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:57:08 GMT Reginald Neale <nealespamKILLspamSERVTECH.COM>
writes:

>>
>>What holds the sockets in the perf board?
>
>  Once you've wrapped a wire on them, the pins won't fit back
>  through the holes. You may want to glue the sockets on just
>  to keep them in place before they're wire-wrapped.
>>

       There are also little plastic thingees that you can buy that
tightly slip over the wire wrap pins once you've put them thru the board.
They're called Wrap ID.  Besides holding the socket to the board while
you get the first few wires in place, they have space where you can write
the chip number and also number each pin, which helps avoid wiring
mistakes.


Harold




Harold Hallikainen
.....haroldKILLspamspam.....hallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1999\01\19@202044 by Greg Cormier

flavicon
Hmm, I guess this question has been pretty much answered, but I'll stress a
few things

- Plan ahead. I usually draw right on the board with pencil, it rubs off
anyways.
- Mind your 1's and 14's. Sometimes it gets a little tricky when you're
look at pin 14, then you flip it over and wrap pin 1 instead.

As for the tools, well, if you go with the OK, it's not that bad. I used a
battery powered one, it worked nicely. But, I also use a hand tool at home.
i can't say I prefer the motorized tool, the hand tool has more control.
Oh, and personally, I can't find any use for the built in wire strippers in
the hand wrapping tools, they are quite pointless. Use another stripper.
One thing to be careful is not to scar the wire at all, or else it will
snap later on at the worst possible moment. =) As for mounting components,
I use a jewler's screwdriver (the small ones) to jam in the mounting pin,
works quite well. As for IC sockets, a dab of glue under the middle of the
socket does the trick nicely.

Hope this helps,
Greg


-----------------------
Greg Cormier
Kathmandu, Nepal
Local time : GMT + 5h30m
EraseMEgcormierspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTwlink.com.np
ICQ # : 565465

1999\01\19@221524 by Eric Borcherding

picon face
Toby,

Perhaps the technique I have developed over the years will help you.
I tried Wire Wrapping (WW) and found getting the multi color wires with
prestrip was a hassle.   It was also annoying to have 3/4 or 1/2 in of pins
sticking out of  board bottom - ie bent shaaorted pins, not easily
minaturized.
There are up WW front tool costs - and rememer to get a hand unwrap tool.

What I do is to use a vectorboard with 0.10" grid with or without the ground
plane on top or individual solder pads per hole on bottom.   This is your
choice sometimes Ground plane and solder pads are easier, less noisy.  The
machined
pin sockets can be used for DIPs and SOIC conveter to DIP boards, or Caps
resistors that fit into the macined pin opening, other socket media also.   A
small diameter tool like a 0.3 mm (leads) of  a Pentel mechanical Pencil or a
#40 drill bit butt mounted into a fixture you can hold in your hand.   The
idea
is to create a single loop on one side with a prestip of 3/16 or 1/8 inch.
Solder
this end to the machined pin (usually can stack two more later) then draw the
kynar wire sleeve into the solder joint soas to insulate that end.   At the
other
end put the wire insulation down on the pad / pin and do a single loop and
solder then cut the kynar wire.

This technique although requiring practise and forthought on layout provides
a reliable shortest path connection with the least waste in wire and can run
at
to 50MHz (ground planed vectorboard) and 20 MHz on vectorboard.  Once you
get used to it I have found I can do this just as fast as WWing and end up
with
a minaturized product that fits into the smallest of plastic cases or whatnot.
Best to adapt this technique to 20 Square inches or less, messy beyound this.

The tips on Green/Black for Grounds,  Red for +, yellow for -, white for data
relay help when looking at during the build or years later on retrofits.
Since
you are doing five - focus on the first on wire routing then just visually
duplicate
including all component placement.  Watch your positive and negative routing.
Aa loop for Vcc works nicely - with a dual loop for a digital and analog
interface
connected at only one point.   Ground loops with star point crossing work well
on regular vectorboard.   Look carefully at you decoupling Caps (liberal is
good)
and any Ferrites or Tees you may need.

I call it "micro WW", for lack of a better coined description.

Beyound 10 you will yearn to do a layout then a photographic positive (or two
thin foils on a reducing copier machine has done the trick for me with 0.015"
min traces) The POS-DEV photoresist method and the ferric chloride etch is a
possible step for "mass" hobby production.   I have seen hobbiest produce
boards in the 65 cents per square inch square per board range per 100.  - FWIW

Eric Borcherding

1999\01\19@234513 by PMSC Control System

picon face
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby Stensland <tobyspamspam_OUTSTENSLAND.COM>
To: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:58 AM
Subject: [OT] Wire wrapping questions


>I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few
questions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:


As you know - wirewrapping was THE way to interface multiple PCB's on a
common chassis 25 to 30 years ago. When I worked at Sperry Univac in the
70's - most of thier computer line used wirewrap. I will tell you what I
remember...

>Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few
other ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?


Yes and no. One of the draw-backs to using wirewrap is that the wire added
inductance to the circuit. The result was 'ringing' in the circuit. Another
problem with wirewrapping is - if not done correctly - the wraps can become
resistive to the post. You must have a 'gas tight' wrap - to have a trouble
free wrap.

>Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?


I'm not aware of one. However, the Federal Aviation Administration FAA may
have some material on the subject [many of those 'old' wirewrap computers
were used by them].

>Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?
>
>What holds the sockets in the perf board?


I'm sure that you can find a supplier of wirewrap proto-boards somewhere. As
for me, I would not consider using them.

>We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any
experience or reviews?


Denver-Gardner [Cooper Tools] made the best wirewrap tools, bar none. OK
was...OK. We considered OK more 'hobby' grade. Today, OK may be the only
vendor making these tools.

You will need the gun, 30 gauge MODIFIED WRAP bit, un-wrap tool, and 30
gauge
NO-NIC stripper. Using anything other then the NO-NIC stripper is asking for
trouble.

The 'hobbiest' will use the combination wrap/unwrap/stripping tool. Radio
Shack sold them for $5.95

>What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?


30 gauge wirewrap wire.


Happy wrapping,

Dave Gunderson

1999\01\20@015733 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
My take on this:

 Find someone who "knows" wire wrapping if you can, have them watch &
tutor you, for me at least it was a "Feel" thing - otherwise, just wrap
a whole bunch of joints until you get a "feel" for how it works.  You
should see the post nicking the wire nicely when you do a good wrap &
then unwrap the wire (that's how you know you're getting a "gas-tight"
wrap i.e. tight enough wrap, the wire should be plasticly deformed
around the corner of the socket pins.)  Consistency is IMPORTANT, that's
what makes the difference (IMHO) between a good and a flakey wire-wrap
board.

 I use most anything (just regular perf board), usually don't glue, if
I do I like gel type superglue (It's great for re-working PC boards, and
if you have the catalyst, you can "set" the stuff in 1/10 of a second or
so.  It sorts "puffs up" if you use too much catalyst, it gets hot &
boils <G>)  I only glue boards that'll be in vibration environments.

 Personally I can't stand Battery/AC powered wrappers, I like hand
wrappers (I think this is one of those "What works for you" things.
Lots of people I know use & like those, what matters is that *you* get
consistent, GOOD results.)  I use a semi-modified wrap (1 or 2 turns
with insulation) for high-vibration prototypes, usually straight
wrapping though, and I put a nice #24 power & ground bus on there with
lots of bypass caps.  Sometimes 2 strands of #24 in parallel.  I use
staking pins (know what I mean but cannot remember the right name - It
pushes through the perfboard & you wrap on the bottom, the top has a
little terminal "fork" you can push wires in & solder to) to run
power/ground busses.  You're always needing just ONE more Vcc or Ground
connection <G>

 I agree on printing the schematic & highlighting it as you work (I
even use blue & then when I go back through, put yellow over the blue,
giving me green highlighting on double-checked traces.)  (It may be
yellow then blue over that, I always play with it instead of remembering
the details) - this trick works well, and gives you a good visual way to
see how far along you are.  And the boss can see what's up so he'll not
nag you <G>

 If you have a lighted magnifying glass and a nice PanaVise or the
like, that helps reduce eye strain (You can wire-wrap sitting on the
floor - those make it a little more easy.)

 I have a tool that has a little "finger-shaped" pin (bend your index
finger about 45 degrees - that sort of shape) on one end and a little
straight pin on the other end, that's a REALLY handy tool for wiring (I
have one but it's no longer made, really useful.)  Could try a standard
screwdriver I guess, for bending wires & etc. is what I use mine for.
Don't nick the wire if you use a screwdriver.

 Solder once perfectly happy with it, if needed (should work for years
normally.)

 Do expect wire-wrapping to take a while, the nice thing for prototypes
is that you can easily change something.

 For some protos you can use wire-wrap habits but regular sockets &
then solder, too (I've made quite a few protos that fit in tiny spaces
for one local company) - but here you end up moto-tooling sockets apart
for more room for the bypass capacitors (sometimes the crystal & caps
fit under there as well i.e. for 40-pin CPU's).  But that's NEXT week's
projects <G>

 Mark

Toby Stensland wrote:
>
> I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few quest
ions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:
>
> Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few other
ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?
>
> Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?
>
> Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?
>
> What holds the sockets in the perf board?
>
> We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any experie
nce or reviews?
>
> What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?
>
> Toby Stensland                                                 toby@stensland.
com
> 3112 South Independence Court
> Lakewood, CO  80227
>
> http://www.stensland.com

1999\01\20@021207 by Keith Causey

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Willis <RemoveMEmwillisTakeThisOuTspamNWLINK.COM>
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Wire wrapping questions


Something I've found to be very useful is multicolored kynar. I color code
everything I can. My basic scheme for a small microprocessor based system is
red for +5v black for ground; green for data; yellow for address; white for
control;(rd_, wr_ etc) and blue and orange for whatever else I can uniquely
distinguish. Done properly your wirewrap board can be almost as lucid at a
glance as a schematic. I agree Mark about the manual tool's superority over
the automatic tool. It's just my personal taste. My employer offered to buy
me an automatic; I refused. I also chop off the wire wrap socket's pins to
half length. I have never had to use the whole pin. I don't know this but I
suspect all that extra metal might broadcast! Experiment, experiment,
experiment. You might even learn to like it.

1999\01\20@075510 by Claudio Rachiele IW0DZG

flavicon
face
Toby,
in the first years of '70, in IBM, we use wire wrapping also for larger
mainframes.
Boards have six layers of printed circuit and two layers of wire wrapping.
Wire wrapping is usefull for prototyping, but very expensive for production.
Try two way:
a. make your double sided pcb using less vias you can or trying to put vias
under IC sockets pins or components and solder pins for both sides.
b. use wirewrapp  TEFLON wire and solder directly to IC and components pins on
a prototype perf board.
If you want to use wire wrapping use prototype perf board with or without
soldering pads, but not the bussed one like veroboard.
To fix IC sockets use a drop of glue on perf board without pads or solder the
four corner pads on the other.
Use 28 or 30 AWG wire silver copper for wire wrapping.

HTH

LMK

ciao

                      Claudio Rachiele IW0DZG



RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
01/19/99 07:18 PM
Please respond to PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU

To: EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:
Subject: [OT] Wire wrapping questions

I can't find any instructions concerning wire wrapping, and I have a few
questions, and any general tips or hints would be welcome:

Generally I make small quantity (<5) PIC based circuits with just a few other
ICs and a few discreets.  Is wire wrapping the way to go?

Is there a web page or book with instructions for wire wrapping?

Do I need to buy a special type of perf board?

What holds the sockets in the perf board?

We are thinking about buying the OK battery powered wrapping tool, any
experience or reviews?

What gauge wire should I use for typical PIC circuits?


Toby Stensland
RemoveMEtobyEraseMEspamEraseMEstensland.com
3112 South Independence Court
Lakewood, CO  80227

http://www.stensland.com



1999\01\20@104054 by Gary Crowell

flavicon
face
Mark Willis wrote:
>
>   I use most anything (just regular perf board), usually don't glue, if
> I do I like gel type superglue (It's great for re-working PC boards, and
> if you have the catalyst, you can "set" the stuff in 1/10 of a second or
> so.  It sorts "puffs up" if you use too much catalyst, it gets hot &
> boils <G>)  I only glue boards that'll be in vibration environments.
>

The only thing I have to add is the caution that you do *not* use the
liquid type superglue.  It will wick up into the socket contacts and
make them unusable.

Gary Crowell

1999\01\20@130026 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
By the way: number one "mysterious problem" in old mainframes with
wirewrapped backplanes?  After 5+ years of operation, some of the wrapped
wires that were positioned against other pins would eventually have the
insulation displace enough to cause an inadvertent connection to the post!

BillW

1999\01\20@134711 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Gary Crowell wrote:
> Mark Willis wrote:
> >
> >   I use most anything (just regular perf board), usually don't glue, if
> > I do I like gel type superglue (It's great for re-working PC boards, and
> > if you have the catalyst, you can "set" the stuff in 1/10 of a second or
> > so.  It sorts "puffs up" if you use too much catalyst, it gets hot &
> > boils <G>)  I only glue boards that'll be in vibration environments.
> >
>
> The only thing I have to add is the caution that you do *not* use the
> liquid type superglue.  It will wick up into the socket contacts and
> make them unusable.
>
> Gary Crowell

 Definitely agree - glue the plastic frame of the socket, avoiding the
pins as much as possible - if you later solder the wrapped wire, the
heat can mess most glues up, in addition to the glue messing the
wrapping up and making the sockets "N.O." <G>

 Mark

1999\01\20@235110 by PMSC Control System

picon face
Bill,

We called them 'cold flows' at UNIVAC.

They were nasty to find. The faults usually occured at random. For
troubleshooting this problem an effective 'low tech' method was used with
great success. We used to cycle the 'diagnostics' on the computer and
'massage' the back plane with a wooden spoon. If any movement was on the
'shorted' pin -- the program would 'die' or come to an error stop.

The backplane on our computers were usually wirewrapped with three levels of
wire on the pin. Level 3 wraps were on the top of the post, level 1 wraps on
the bottom. If the 'cold flow' happened on a level 1 wrap -- it was not
uncommon to remove a dozen [or so] wires to get to the 'bad' one.

Speaking of unconventional 'tools', one of the best tools for wirewrap
troubleshooting was using a small  'darning hook'. We would buy them at the
sewing supplies store. The small darning hook was ideal for snagging buried
wires in a backplane. To this day, I still carry one in my tool case.

Dave Gunderson
{Original Message removed}

1999\01\22@112636 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
       Something I haven't seen on this thread yet is mention of the
automatic wire wrap machines that were pretty popular in the 1970's
before multilayer circuit boards became popular.  Those were amazing
machines!

Harold



Harold Hallikainen
RemoveMEharoldspam_OUTspamKILLspamhallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1999\01\22@140437 by Keith Causey

flavicon
face
Hi Harold,
   They were mentioned but their virtues were not extolled by me. At least
one other person seemed to think the same thing. Manual wire-wrapping rules.
I do understand that it is a personal preference. Manual has the price war.
The manual tools and the multicolored kynal will set you back about $50.00
to do it in real style. That covers 6 colors of wire from Jameco, a manual
tool ($7.00) from Radio Shack, and some board and sockets from the dealer of
your choice.
                                       Keith Causey


{Quote hidden}

1999\01\22@145806 by Gary Crowell

flavicon
face
Keith Causey wrote:
>
> Hi Harold,
>     They were mentioned but their virtues were not extolled by me. At least
> one other person seemed to think the same thing. Manual wire-wrapping rules.

I think Harold was referring to the really automated machines - more
akin to a flat-bed plotter; wraps an entire board from a wirelist
without any hand operations.

GC

1999\01\22@162643 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
The "manual" wire wrapping tools seem to have jumped quite a bit in price
recently.

I had a summer job that consisted primarilly of wirewrapping prototypes on
"professional" wire wrap pannels (WW pins directly embedded in a PC board,
with Vcc and Gnd planes and extra pins for them.)  Had pro electric WW guns
and pro strippers (manual) too.  It was MUCH nicer than the manual tool I
wound up with for my own stuff, but you'd be talking about $200 for the gun
and $100 for the strippers.  (and dont even THINK about buying new panels of
that sort, although they occasionally show up on the surplus market at
reasonable prices.)  I haven't tried any of the "cheap" electric tools.

BillW

1999\01\27@134259 by Larry G. Nelson Sr.

flavicon
face
I suggest using you schematic capture CAD tool to generate a wire list if
you use one. For years I used Orcad to give me a wire list for a netlist.
It is easier and less prone to errors than the highliter to the schematic
method. If you use another CAD tool look for a netlist format like "wire
list" to do this.


At 06:57 PM 1/19/99 GMT, you wrote:
snip

{Quote hidden}

Larry G. Nelson Sr.
EraseMEL.NelsonspamspamspamBeGoneieee.org
http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 1999 , 2000 only
- Today
- New search...