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'[OT] Who controls the internet'
2005\09\30@092822 by John Nall

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Well, I must say that I am absolutely amazed that Russell has not
brought this to our attention!  :-)  He is usually the first one to
notice such ominous clouds on the horizon.

From the NY Times:

> The United States and Europe clashed here Thursday in one of their
> sharpest public disagreements in months, after European Union
> negotiators proposed stripping the Americans of their effective
> control of the Internet.  The European decision to back the rest of
> the world in demanding the creation of a new international body to
> govern the Internet clearly caught the Americans off balance and left
> them largely isolated at talks designed to come up with a new way of
> regulating the digital traffic of the 21st century.


John

2005\09\30@111226 by Gerhard Fiedler

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John Nall wrote:

>> The European decision to back the rest of the world in demanding the
>> creation of a new international body to govern the Internet clearly
>> caught the Americans off balance and left them largely isolated at
>> talks designed to come up with a new way of regulating the digital
>> traffic of the 21st century.

This is going to be interesting. Either the US government "gives in" and
accepts an international regulatory body -- something that seems really
difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)

Gerhard

2005\09\30@113648 by John J. McDonough

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face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard Fiedler" <spam_OUTlistsTakeThisOuTspamconnectionbrazil.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet


> difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
> some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)

And how many of the European nanny-state economies could withstand loosing a
large chunk of the U.S. market?  Do you really believe the Asian countries
would pass up an opportnity to increase their U.S. market share?

It might be realistic if Germany and France were in a little  better shape.
But their budgets have even bigger problems than the U.S.  Of course, many
European leaders seem to have a death wish, so it could happen.  In the end,
it would be a very good thing for the U.S.  Whether U.S. leaders have enough
vision to recognize that is another question.

--McD

2005\09\30@113705 by John Nall

picon face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>
>
>This is going to be interesting. Either the US government "gives in" and
>accepts an international regulatory body -- something that seems really
>difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
>some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)
>  
>
Yes, that is what worries me.  The present administration seems to be
awfully prone to bite off their nose just to spite their face, so that
they could indeed "go it alone."  Which would be a ghastly mistake,
IMHO, but only one more of many.  :-(

John

2005\09\30@115430 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>>This is going to be interesting. Either the US government "gives in" and
>>accepts an international regulatory body -- something that seems really
>>difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
>>some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)
>>
>
>Yes, that is what worries me.  The present administration seems to be
>awfully prone to bite off their nose just to spite their face, so that
>they could indeed "go it alone."  Which would be a ghastly mistake,
>IMHO, but only one more of many.  :-(

Well if the noises I hear about the USA doing something about their
proportion of green house gas emissions are correct, then I guess anything
is possible.

2005\09\30@135248 by John Ferrell

face picon face
I am still trying to understand what "control" means.

John Ferrell    
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2005\09\30@140113 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
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John,

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:36:44 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Share of what market?  I'm in New York at the moment, and the only thing European I've seen here is BMWs (oh,
and jars of Marmite at four times what they cost in England! :-)  Pretty much anything that isn't US made
seems to come from China as far as I can see.

> It might be realistic if Germany and France were in a little  better shape.
> But their budgets have even bigger problems than the U.S.  

Well France doesn't seem to care about exports much - as long as they can live on the Agricultural subsidy,
they seem to be happy.  Germany is still reeling a bit from taking over responsibility for the former East
Germany, but things seem (viewed from the other side of the North Sea) to be improving.

Wouter's countrymen seem to be doing pretty well - I'm surprised we haven't heard of them doing consulting
work (at least) on the sea defences around New Orleans.

> Of course, many European leaders seem to have a death wish, so it could happen.  

I think it's more that the beaureaucrats have spotted another niche to create a new "body" to oversee
something, thus creating more useless and unwanted jobs.  We had a narrow escape with software patents, so
perhaps they were looking around for another target and saw the Internet.  We already suffer from too much
government, IMHO, and joining Europe has made things worse - that's why I voted against it!

> In the end, it would be a very good thing for the U.S.

In what way?

> Whether U.S. leaders have enough vision to recognize that is another question.

Well Homeland Security don't seem to have been involved yet - if they haven't got enough to do, perhaps they
could be tasked with protecting the Internet?  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\30@140150 by Alex Harford

face picon face
The root DNS servers.

On 9/30/05, John Ferrell wrote:
> I am still trying to understand what "control" means.
>
> John Ferrell
> http://DixieNC.US

2005\09\30@140333 by John Nall

picon face
John Ferrell wrote:

> I am still trying to understand what "control" means.


Probably I should have posted a link to the article.  Oh well.  Better
late than never.

    http://www.nytimes.com/iht/2005/09/30/business/IHT-30net.html

John

2005\09\30@140436 by alan smith

picon face
I thought Dan Quayle owned it?  Those who invent own it?  :-)

John Nall <jwnallspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>
>
>This is going to be interesting. Either the US government "gives in" and
>accepts an international regulatory body -- something that seems really
>difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
>some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)
>
>
Yes, that is what worries me. The present administration seems to be
awfully prone to bite off their nose just to spite their face, so that
they could indeed "go it alone." Which would be a ghastly mistake,
IMHO, but only one more of many. :-(

John

2005\09\30@140849 by Don Taylor

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face

> On 9/30/05, John Ferrell wrote:
>> I am still trying to understand what "control" means.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Alex Harford wrote:
> The root DNS servers.

You don't think we could get them to impose STIFF tariffs on spam,
Nigeria 419 fraud, bank phish fraud, and all those lotteries I
somehow keep winning even though I don't even remember entering,
do you? :)

2005\09\30@141053 by Don Taylor

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face

> John Nall <.....jwnallKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>> This is going to be interesting. Either the US government "gives in" and
>> accepts an international regulatory body -- something that seems really
>> difficult for US Americans --, or we may see two incompatible systems at
>> some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)
>
> Yes, that is what worries me. The present administration seems to be
> awfully prone to bite off their nose just to spite their face, so that
> they could indeed "go it alone." Which would be a ghastly mistake,
> IMHO, but only one more of many. :-(

Whatever happened to "Internet 2"?  I haven't heard about that in years.
That was supposed to be incompatible and separate.

2005\09\30@142231 by John Pfaff

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Except Al Gore is the one that claimed to have invented the Internet.

alan smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\09\30@143410 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Wouter's countrymen seem to be doing pretty well - I'm

According to others maybe, we ourselves aren't so sure. Right now we are
debating about whether child care (in the after-school hours) is a good
thing (the right and left wing parties think so) or a bad thing (the
mighty middle party - in my country that's the katholic/protestant party
- thinks so: it could stimulate mothers to take a job!). AFAIK this
discussion has been closed long ago in all other EC countries, but of
course we take our own course.

> surprised we haven't heard of them doing consulting
> work (at least) on the sea defences around New Orleans.

AFAIK there are some Dutch consultants over there, but no one can save
things when the budget is unsufficient and/or the burocracy is too heavy
...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2005\09\30@143416 by David Van Horn

picon face
> Wouter's countrymen seem to be doing pretty well - I'm surprised we
> haven't heard of them doing consulting
> work (at least) on the sea defences around New Orleans.


Probably that would have been a VERY good idea!



2005\09\30@143524 by Howard Winter

face
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On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT), Don Taylor wrote:

> Whatever happened to "Internet 2"?  I haven't heard about that in years.
> That was supposed to be incompatible and separate.

Or, indeed, IP v6, which has been fumbling around for ages, and still isn't widely used.  With more addresses
than there are molecules in the Universe (or whatever the statistic is) that would certainly cut down on port
scans!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\30@145900 by Don Taylor

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face

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Howard Winter wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT), Don Taylor wrote:
>> Whatever happened to "Internet 2"?  I haven't heard about that in
>> years. That was supposed to be incompatible and separate.
>
> Or, indeed, IP v6, which has been fumbling around for ages, and still
> isn't widely used.  With more addresses than there are molecules in the
> Universe (or whatever the statistic is) that would certainly cut down on
> port scans!

Or Microsoft rattling their sabre about how they want everyone to make
this change and that change, defined by Microsoft, to stop spam, all the
while having recently become one of the biggest delivery pipelines for
Nigeria fraud spam AND added anti-spam filters to all their abuse
addresses so they bounce any complaints sent to them about this.

I realize it has been said before, but a nickel a message for every
message put onto the backbone of the net would bring all this junk to a
halt.  If it isn't worth a nickel then just don't send it in the first
place.  And I think most people would think it would be worth that to make
the junk stop.

2005\09\30@151658 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Winter" <HDRWspamspam_OUTh2org.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet


> and jars of Marmite at four times what they cost in England! :-)  Pretty
> much
> anything that isn't US made seems to come from China as far as I can see.

Most thing that appear US made come from China, Taiwan or Korea.

> Wouter's countrymen seem to be doing pretty well - I'm surprised we
> haven't heard of them doing consulting work (at least) on the sea
> defences around New Orleans.

Even though we panicked a few years ago about the Japanese taking over, the
Dutch are second only to the Brits in foreign ownership of U.S. assets.
They're slowly taking over the world, they're just being real quiet about
it.

> I think it's more that the beaureaucrats have spotted another niche to
> create a new "body" to oversee something

Europe hardly has a corner on the bureaucrat market

> In what way?

I think the EU sells a lot more stuff here than we do there.  A fortress
Europe would eliminate a reasonably strong group of competitors in the
largest, growing markets.  A decade or so ago the U.S. would have felt
obligated to bail out a bankrupt Europe, but nowadays I don't thing there's
much stomach for that.

On the other hand, a European company is paying me a bunch of change next
week to come talk to them, and I hope to take a lot more of their money next
year, so personally, my balance of payments situation is a bit different.

> Well Homeland Security don't seem to have been involved yet - if they
> haven't got enough to do, perhaps they could be tasked with protecting
> the Internet?  :-)

Now wouldn't THAT be special?

--McD

2005\09\30@151829 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
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Wouter,

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:34:09 +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> > Wouter's countrymen seem to be doing pretty well - I'm
>
> According to others maybe, we ourselves aren't so sure.

That's just human nature - when did you ever hear anyone (or especially any nation) say "We're doing really
well - let's leave everything just as it is and enjoy it" ?  :-)

> Right now we are
> debating about whether child care (in the after-school hours) is a good
> thing (the right and left wing parties think so) or a bad thing (the
> mighty middle party - in my country that's the katholic/protestant party
> - thinks so: it could stimulate mothers to take a job!).

In what context?  Is this whether to allow these institutions to exist, or whether they should be paid for by
the state, or what?

>...<

> no one can save things when the budget is unsufficient and/or the burocracy is too heavy

This should be written in large letters above the doors of every Government department in the World!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\30@152714 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
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Don,

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:58:59 -0700 (PDT), Don Taylor wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Not being of the Microsoft persuasion (I'm using OS/2 here) I haven't seen any of the above.  I think the
phrase "blissful ignorance" applies!  :-)  So howcome they allow the spam to flow through, but block it
arriving?  (Rhetorical question I suppose!)

> I realize it has been said before, but a nickel a message for every
> message put onto the backbone of the net would bring all this junk to a
> halt.  If it isn't worth a nickel then just don't send it in the first
> place.  And I think most people would think it would be worth that to make
> the junk stop.

Better still, the nickel (2.83p Sterling, I think) should be go to the recipient, so whenever you send an
email, you're paying the other person a small amount to read it (or to delete it without doing so).  Yes, that
would work!  :-)  I would have made a couple of quid today, already.

Now, who is it that's in charge of the Internet?

Mind you, James would probably get a bit upset at receiving $0.05 and having to pay $100 for every message
posted here...

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\30@154841 by alan smith

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fine..al....some vp.  we have so many vp's here i get em all confuzzeled

John Pfaff <@spam@jpfaff1528KILLspamspamverizon.net> wrote:Except Al Gore is the one that claimed to have invented the Internet.

alan smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\09\30@155125 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Winter" <KILLspamHDRWKILLspamspamh2org.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet


> Not being of the Microsoft persuasion (I'm using OS/2 here)

I knew I liked you.  Sadly, my PC finally grew to the point where my old
copy of Warp would no longer run.



2005\09\30@160659 by Marcel Duchamp

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I, for one, welcome our new internet control overlords!

2005\09\30@162538 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> In what context?  Is this whether to allow these institutions
> to exist, or whether they should be paid for by
> the state, or what?

The trigger was the idea to force schools to provide this service. IMHO
not a bad idea, provided the schools get enough time, money, housing,
etc to organise this. But the idea as stated was that they would get
littel money, probably no extra housing, and has to arrange this by
1-1-2006.

But at the same time the inflow in technical studies is still
decreasing, and the general attitude towards technical things/persons is
not good. I don't think this is good for our future. But the government
does not seem to car much about this.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\09\30@164416 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
We are control all your ip's.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu
> [spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesspamBeGonespammit.edu] On Behalf Of Marcel Duchamp
> Sent: 2005 Sep 30, Fri 13:09
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet
>
> I, for one, welcome our new internet control overlords!
> -

2005\09\30@170455 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
There is a nice root server FAQ here:
http://www.isoc.org/briefings/020/

-Adam

On 9/30/05, John Ferrell <TakeThisOuTjohnferrellEraseMEspamspam_OUTearthlink.net> wrote:
> I am still trying to understand what "control" means.
>
> John Ferrell
> http://DixieNC.US
>
> {Original Message removed}

2005\09\30@192820 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
Interesting discussions. Is this thread inspired from BBC's now
running "Who runs your world" series?

Who controls the Internet? I guess no one can control the Internet
and it is good to kee p it this way. Still take note Internet does not
contain really all networks around the word. There are still a lot
of special networks around.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2005\09\30@193259 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Sep 30, 2005, at 8:36 AM, John Nall wrote:

>>  or we may see two incompatible systems at
>> some point in the future... The US versus the rest of the world :)
>>
> Yes, that is what worries me.  The present administration seems to be
> awfully prone to bite off their nose just to spite their face, so that
> they could indeed "go it alone."

Ah.  Poor memories.  The rest of the world wasn't very enthusiastic to
participate an "american controlled" set of protocols in the first
place,
resulting in the mutually incompatible ISO protocol stack (at great cost
to everyone involved, including the US, since they couldn't ignore an
international standard even if they had their own protocols.)

Cynically speaking, the ISO stack failed, and now the "rest of the
world"
wants an opportunity to screw up the american stack.

On the other hand, perhaps I should look more carefully at what sort of
"control" we're talking about here.  Administrative control?  Control
of the protocols (it's not like there hasn't been a lot of international
participation in IETF already, for instance)?  Getting even more
cynical,
I think perhaps anyone who believes that "the internet" is controlled by
the US government... just isn't paying very much attention!

BillW

2005\09\30@193425 by Dave Lag

picon face
"all your IPs are belong to us"?

James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> We are control all your ip's.
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu
>>[piclist-bouncesEraseMEspam.....mit.edu] On Behalf Of Marcel Duchamp
>>Sent: 2005 Sep 30, Fri 13:09
>>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet
>>
>>I, for one, welcome our new internet control overlords!
>>-

2005\09\30@201201 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Sep 30, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> ake note Internet does not contain really all networks around the
> word. There are still a lot of special networks around.
>
I should hope so!  The internet protocols were designed so that things
COULD talk to each other, not so that they'd HAVE to talk to each other.
In particular, the original split between ARPANet and MilNet was
designed
to be rather tightly controlled.  Just because a network talks IP
doesn't
mean it needs to be connected to the internet.

(if the whole argument is over who owns the root DNS servers, it
seems like a rather big discussion over a rather minor issue...)

BillW

2005\09\30@202633 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Oops. Right. That was what I was going for.

---
James.



{Quote hidden}


'[OT] Who controls the internet'
2005\10\01@111324 by Gerhard Fiedler
picon face
William ChopsWestfield wrote:

> On the other hand, perhaps I should look more carefully at what sort of
> "control" we're talking about here.  

Probably... it seems you haven't read the article. IMO this is less about
actual control (albeit some), and more about attitude.

If I understand the control aspect correctly, currently some aspects of the
top level domain resolution are under US control (the root zone files).

In this link http://www.isoc.org/briefings/020/ that someone posted, I
found this seemingly reasonable phrase:

"The DNS name space is one notable exception to this rule: it is
hierarchical; so there needs to be global agreement on which TLDs go into
the top level and who is managing them. This is an area that obviously
needs a globally agreed process."

Isn't this what this is about?

Gerhard

2005\10\01@111328 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
John J. McDonough wrote:

> Even though we panicked a few years ago about the Japanese taking over, the
> Dutch are second only to the Brits in foreign ownership of U.S. assets.

I'm not sure I have the right source here (is there a better one?), and I'm
not sure what you call "US assets", but this says otherwise (about US
government debt): http://mwhodges.home.att.net/reserves_a.htm#MAJOR

1: Japan $700G
2: China $200G
3: UK $160G
...
27: Netherlands $9G


>> I think it's more that the beaureaucrats have spotted another niche to
>> create a new "body" to oversee something
>
> Europe hardly has a corner on the bureaucrat market

While there isn't really a formal championship, I think in this area the EU
does have an edge :)


> I think the EU sells a lot more stuff here than we do there.  

>From http://www.eurunion.org/profile/EUUSStats.htm: $250G sold from EU to
US vs. $150G sold from US to EU. Interestingly, both numbers are about 20%
of the EU trade in resp. out, and are about 17% (in) and 19% (out) of the
US trade. Which kind of says that the US imports less from the EU,
relatively speaking, even though it imports more than it exports, in
absolute numbers.

Gerhard

2005\10\01@125614 by Peter

picon face

> the Universe (or whatever the statistic is) that would certainly cut
> down on port scans!

No, imho, it would cut down on the port scan *hits* which is different
wrt network load.

Peter

2005\10\02@061634 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
maybe we should ask Vice Presdident Al Gore what he had in mind when he
invented the internet.

And if control has to be assigned, lets assign it to a dog, after all "On
the internet no one knows you are aa dog."

Pookie

2005\10\02@064917 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
Al Gore invented the internet???

On 10/2/05, Bill & Pookie <EraseMEreddxspamspamspamBeGonecomcast.net> wrote:
> maybe we should ask Vice Presdident Al Gore what he had in mind when he
> invented the internet.
>
> And if control has to be assigned, lets assign it to a dog, after all "On
> the internet no one knows you are aa dog."
>
> Pookie

2005\10\02@065200 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
Maybe the question should change from "Guns or butter" to "Solders or
scholars" for a country's best and brightest.

{Original Message removed}

2005\10\02@082015 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
Yup, that's what he said while running for reelection as  Vice President.
http://tinyurl.com/qio5

Others think...
http://tinyurl.com/c683h

And I understand a previous poster confusing him with Dan Quayle.  As I get
older it seems like they change Vice Presidents faster than car styles.

And for the "Controller of the Internet" I suggest Michael Brown, the ex
FEMA Director who was responsible for so much of the shocking news on
television during Hurricane Katrina.

Pookie

{Original Message removed}

2005\10\02@100538 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
I see. Any vice president doing anything useful then?

On 10/2/05, Bill & Pookie <RemoveMEreddxKILLspamspamcomcast.net> wrote:
> Yup, that's what he said while running for reelection as  Vice President.
> http://tinyurl.com/qio5
>
> Others think...
> http://tinyurl.com/c683h
>
> And I understand a previous poster confusing him with Dan Quayle.  As I get
> older it seems like they change Vice Presidents faster than car styles.
>
> And for the "Controller of the Internet" I suggest Michael Brown, the ex
> FEMA Director who was responsible for so much of the shocking news on
> television during Hurricane Katrina.
>
> Pookie

2005\10\02@105845 by David Van Horn

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmit.edu [spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamEraseMEmit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Xiaofan Chen
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 9:31 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] Who controls the internet
>
> I see. Any vice president doing anything useful then?

We try to avoid that.



2005\10\02@131741 by John Remington

picon face
www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/30/D8CUKA481.html

At issue is who would have ultimate authority over the Internet's master
directories, <snip>

That role has historically gone to the United States, which created <snip> The
U.S. Commerce Department has delegated much of that responsibility to a
U.S.-based private organization with international board members,<snip>

Some countries have been frustrated that the United States and European
countries that got on the Internet first gobbled up most of the available
addresses required for computers to connect, leaving developing nations with
a limited supply to share.

They also want greater assurance that as they come to rely on the Internet
more for governmental and other services, their plans won't get derailed by
some future U.S. policy.
Policy decisions could at a stroke make all Web sites ending in a specific
suffix essentially unreachable. Other decisions could affect the
availability of domain names in non-English characters or ones dedicated to
special interests such as pornography

2005\10\02@133335 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Oct 2, 2005, at 3:49 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> Al Gore invented the internet???
>
During his office, Al Gore (VP of the US) apparently made some comment
(I don't recall the comment or the context) that was widely (mis)quoted
by
assorted detractors as having been a claim that he had invented the
internet.  (which is, of course, ridiculous.)

On the other hand, it might be noted that this was the administration
during which "the internet" was "opened up" from its previous status
as a DoD/NSF-sponsored research-and-government-only network into
something that was OK for random commercial use.  In a very real
sense, that WAS the birth of the internet as we know it today.

I don't know whether that's what the VP had in mind when he made his
infamous statement, but it can be worth remembering that widescale
technology deployment DOES have a political side to it...

BillW

2005\10\03@091406 by John Colonias

flavicon
face
I2 is alive nd well. The Abilane network interconnects major nodes and
it used solely
by and for research universities. Presently, it looks for appllication
that require
fast CPU utilization.

John
{Original Message removed}

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