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'[OT] Where do you go to buy your chips?'
2009\02\14@121145 by solarwind

picon face
Not the supermarket.

Seriously, where do you guys go to buy your integrated circuits? I
don't want to pay $5 shipping and wait two weeks for a $0.25 IC. Like,
if I need a shift register IC or an ADC IC and my local electronics
store doesn't carry it, what can I do?

--
solarwind

2009\02\14@141937 by Carl Denk

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face
For the most part, the local parts stores are long gone except for a few
isolated instances. Radio Shack if you have one near might have a very few.

I use Mouser, Jameco, and Digikey (might have minimum order) in that
order. I use USPS priority mail with tracking for $5 - $8. If I get them
an order by noon or a little after, and they have stock (almost rare
that they don't), and 2nd day including Saturday, it's setting in my
mail box. I usually have a shopping list going and have a few other
items to add, which helps the freight charge. It's kind of amazing how
the USPS does it, like with Digikey, it goes from Miinnesota to Fargo,
North Dakota, to maybe Chicago, to Cleveland, Ohio to our little one
room post office and on the delivery vehicle to our rural box. I have
done the $1 part and $5 shipping more than a few time, don't like it,
but a lot less than driving 50 miles to find one in stock. Takes a
little effort to plan ahead, order a few extra cheap pieces so you have
them. :)

solarwind wrote:
> Not the supermarket.
>
> Seriously, where do you guys go to buy your integrated circuits? I
> don't want to pay $5 shipping and wait two weeks for a $0.25 IC. Like,
> if I need a shift register IC or an ADC IC and my local electronics
> store doesn't carry it, what can I do?
>
>  

2009\02\14@142259 by Picbits Sales

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face
$5 shipping doesn't seem so bad when you place an average order of $500 each
time. In fact most of the people I buy from have quite a high minimum order
charge but I buy in bulk so it doesn't really affect me.

I did a stock take last year and after my first million components decided
to give up counting and just catalog what was in stock and if I had "lots",
"not many" or "very few" ;-)

Microchip used to have quite a hight S&H charge - I wanted to purchase
around £20 worth of bits but the S&H was nearly as much as the parts I was
ordering.

{Original Message removed}

2009\02\14@142754 by Steve Smith

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face
Chip shop..... Boom Boom.....

-----Original Message-----
From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] On Behalf Of
solarwind
Sent: 14 February 2009 17:12
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [OT] Where do you go to buy your chips?

Not the supermarket.

Seriously, where do you guys go to buy your integrated circuits? I
don't want to pay $5 shipping and wait two weeks for a $0.25 IC. Like,
if I need a shift register IC or an ADC IC and my local electronics
store doesn't carry it, what can I do?

--
solarwind

2009\02\14@143542 by Vitaliy

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face
"solarwind" wrote:
> Seriously, where do you guys go to buy your integrated circuits? I
> don't want to pay $5 shipping and wait two weeks for a $0.25 IC. Like,
> if I need a shift register IC or an ADC IC and my local electronics
> store doesn't carry it, what can I do?

Try a local technical college. Mine had a store staffed by students, right
there in the electronics lab.

As others have suggested, plan ahead and buy lots of stuff at the same time.
I used to order from the Electronics Goldmine, Futurlec, and All
Electronics -- they sell surplus and you can get lots of parts, cheap.

Another alternative is to start your own electronics company (like
Sparkfun). This way, you will always have all the parts you need, on hand --  
or get them overnight because you need them for work.

Vitaliy

2009\02\14@144518 by Picbits Sales

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face
Having had another thought about it - you appear to still be at school so
maybe have a word with whoever buys the electronic components at your school
and see if you can tag on to their weekly order.

Just a thought but worth considering. It might take you an extra few days to
get the part but you'll save your $5 postage.

Dom

2009\02\14@145010 by solarwind

picon face
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Picbits Sales <salesspamKILLspampicbits.co.uk> wrote:
> Having had another thought about it - you appear to still be at school so
> maybe have a word with whoever buys the electronic components at your school
> and see if you can tag on to their weekly order.
>
> Just a thought but worth considering. It might take you an extra few days to
> get the part but you'll save your $5 postage.
>
> Dom

That's a great idea, but my school is useless. We have no electronics
classes. We don't order any parts.


--
solarwind

2009\02\15@094134 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Solarwind,

Where do you live? I'm just curious since I remember seeing you write
emails in French once or twice, if I remember correctly.

I think Dom assumed you were in university. I think you said you are
in your last year of high school/secondary school, right?

Sean


On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:50 PM, solarwind <.....x.solarwind.xKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\02\15@103009 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
> $5 shipping doesn't seem so bad when you place an average order of $500
each time

In fact, many component supplier have a free shipping when order over a
certain amount - like DigiKey say 65 euros or more needed for free shipping.

Usually it is ok for buying a good selection of passives and some silicons
to build a reasonable electronic lab at home.

Tamas


On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Picbits Sales <salesspamspam_OUTpicbits.co.uk> wrote:

> $5 shipping doesn't seem so bad when you place an average order of $500
> each
> time
>



--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\02\16@223444 by Herbert Graf

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face
On Sat, 2009-02-14 at 12:11 -0500, solarwind wrote:
> Not the supermarket.
>
> Seriously, where do you guys go to buy your integrated circuits? I
> don't want to pay $5 shipping and wait two weeks for a $0.25 IC. Like,
> if I need a shift register IC or an ADC IC and my local electronics
> store doesn't carry it, what can I do?

Pay $8 shipping and usually get it next day with digikey.ca

Frankly, you never just buy "one chip", it's always possible to "fill
out" an order to make it worth it. I tend to buy more stuff from digikey
now then going to any local store, it's just less hassle.

TTYL

2009\02\17@154751 by alan smith

picon face
Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship with the reps, sample the parts.  R and C just buy them...keep lots of different values around, its cheap to do that.  The expensive and not so common parts, I just sample them all.  Someone mentioned about the fact Microchip is stingy now on free shipping for samples.  It all depends on who you know, and what you use.  


--- On Mon, 2/16/09, Herbert Graf <@spam@mailinglist4KILLspamspamfarcite.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2009\02\17@160701 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 12:47 -0800, alan smith wrote:
> Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship with the reps, sample the parts.  R and C just buy them...keep lots of different values around, its cheap to do that.  The expensive and not so common parts, I just sample them all.  Someone mentioned about the fact Microchip is stingy now on free shipping for samples.  It all depends on who you know, and what you use.  

I used to be big into the sample stuff, but the issue always was the
uncertainty of when you'd actually get the parts.

That said, even today I tend to use parts from companies that sample,
even if I don't take advantage of the samples much anymore. TTYL

2009\02\17@160728 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:47 PM, alan smith <spamBeGonemicro_eng2spamBeGonespamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship with the reps, sample the parts.  R and C just buy them...keep lots of different values around, its cheap to do that.  The expensive and not so common parts, I just sample them all.  Someone mentioned about the fact Microchip is stingy now on free shipping for samples.  It all depends on who you know, and what you use.

Microchip now charges $7.50 for samples (6 chips in total, I think) so
it's a lot cheaper than buying them.
--
solarwind

2009\02\17@163125 by John Day

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face
At 03:47 PM 2/17/2009, you wrote:
>Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship
>with the reps, sample the parts.

As an engineer in a real and rather large engineering place we rarely
sample things. It then places us under a perceived obligation to rep
companies and as has been mentioned, it might take weeks to get the
samples. And then we have to deal with several phone calls about each
sample request.

R&C are just so cheap. When I need them I tend to go to Future and
just buy full reels of anything, resistors can be as low as $5 per
reel and capacitors not a whole lot more!

We tend to place an order with DigiKey once or twice a week for
anything. Because if it isn't at DigiKey do I really want to use it?
Especially in things which build less than say 1000 per year.

John



{Quote hidden}

2009\02\17@163256 by John Day

flavicon
face
At 04:06 PM 2/17/2009, you wrote:
>On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 12:47 -0800, alan smith wrote:
> > Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship
> with the reps, sample the parts.  R and C just buy them...keep lots
> of different values around, its cheap to do that.  The expensive
> and not so common parts, I just sample them all.  Someone mentioned
> about the fact Microchip is stingy now on free shipping for
> samples.  It all depends on who you know, and what you use.
>
>I used to be big into the sample stuff, but the issue always was the
>uncertainty of when you'd actually get the parts.
>
>That said, even today I tend to use parts from companies that sample,
>even if I don't take advantage of the samples much anymore. TTYL

Yes, because they tend to be the better companies to deal with
anyway. Analog Devices, TI, National Semiconductor come to mind immediately.

John


>

2009\02\17@184045 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Herbert Graf wrote:

>> Or if your a real engineering place..and have a good relationship  
>> with the reps, sample the parts.

> I used to be big into the sample stuff, but the issue always was the
> uncertainty of when you'd actually get the parts.

If you're a "real engineering place" and have that "good  
relationship", and live in a "technology rich" area, there are a lot  
of things you can get samples of within hours, hand delivered by a  
smartly dressed sales rep within hours, accompanied by generally  
pleasant and interesting social and tech talk.  But probably not for  
the sorts of parts a hobbyist needs to finish their calculator...

The first time I ordered some microchip samples from my cisco eMail  
address, I got a call nearly immediately from our Microchip rep,  
wanting to know if she should hand-deliver them, whether I needed a  
demo board, whether we'd like to have a team come by and do a  
presentation...  I didn't even know that we HAD a microchip rep!  
(Good internal communications on Microchip's part BTW.  I was  
impressed.)  I explained that I was ordering the samples for a  
hobbyist project and that standard channels would be fine.  Though I  
did ask if she would drop by and explain where all we were using  
microchip parts the next time it was convenient (It is a bit sad that  
it is much easier to get such information from a vendor than from  
internal sources.)

For the rest of the stuff, I do like others have said - save up a  
list, and consolidate into largish ($100) orders to build up stock...  
Never order ONE of any part, assuming you can afford more than one  
(and AVOID parts that you can't afford more than one of...)

BillW

2009\02\17@190354 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:40 PM, William Chops Westfield <EraseMEwestfwspammac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Talk about geek luxury treatment...

2009\02\17@193433 by cdb

flavicon
face
BGMicro often have stuff like that in the US (http://www.bgmicro.com) or in
Australia  a surplus place would be Rockby http://www.rockby.com.au. I have
purchased a number of 2 and 3.5 digit static displays from them.

Now to wire up my UCN 5832 32bit shift register to them.

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinEraseMEspamEraseMEbtech-online.co.uk on 18/02/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\02\17@202640 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Feb 17, 2009, at 4:03 PM, solarwind wrote:

>> The first time I ordered some microchip samples from my cisco eMail
>> address, I got a call nearly immediately from our Microchip rep...
>
> Talk about geek luxury treatment...

It's embarrassing!  Although, having been through the whole spectrum  
from lying high-school student through noone-has-ever-heard-of-us  
company through 2nd most valuable company in the US (?  briefly.  
Sigh.) has been interesting...

(although, that's not luxury.  It's just sales. Luxury is when you  
manage to negotiate a "joint effort" that gets all the right people in  
the same place at the same time and manage to actually accomplish  
something...)

BillW

2009\02\17@203429 by cdb

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face
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:26:28 -0800, Chops\ wrote:
:: that gets all the right people in  
:: the same place at the same time and manage to actually accomplish  
:: something...)

Are you some sort of subversive with that sort of idea? Governments
could never run on such an ideology!  :)

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinspam_OUTspamKILLspambtech-online.co.uk on 18/02/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\02\17@211530 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:33 PM, cdb <RemoveMEcolinTakeThisOuTspamspambtech-online.co.uk> wrote:
> BGMicro often have stuff like that in the US (http://www.bgmicro.com) or in
> Australia  a surplus place would be Rockby http://www.rockby.com.au. I have
> purchased a number of 2 and 3.5 digit static displays from them.
>
> Now to wire up my UCN 5832 32bit shift register to them.

Wait, how do you do that? That sounds interesting, but I thought that
those LCDs need to be driven using AC signals... How do you drive it
with a shift register?

--
solarwind

2009\02\17@215828 by cdb

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face
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:15:27 -0500, solarwind wrote:
:: Wait, how do you do that? That sounds interesting, but I thought
:: that those LCDs need to be driven using AC signals... How do you
::drive it with a shift register?

You still need one or two pins of your Pic to provide the AC drive
depending on how many commons the LCD has.

The segment data is loaded into a buffer and 'pulsed' out to the shift
register. The 5832 is like a super sized 74HC595 (which can be used
for pin saving driving HD44780type LCD's).  

There is an enable pin on the register that outputs all the registers
at the same time. So long as you have logic that changes the segment
polarity on each enable and making sure that the common is opposite to
the segments it works, or should do. the test was using the 74HC595
which is an 8 bit register.

The 5832 was originally designed for dot matrix print heads so is able
to, if needed pack quite a bit of oomph.

Some phase grabbing code, note the inversion of the segments by using
the  ~:

void get_seg()
{
//if (flag.tmr0F)
 {
   if (phase &1)
    {
       *ptr = segments[dig_no[3]] ;
        ptr ++;
        *ptr = segments[dig_no[2]];
        ptr++;
        *ptr = segments[dig_no[1]];

    }
   else
    {
           *ptr = ~segments[dig_no[3]]| COM;
        ptr ++;
        *ptr = ~segments[dig_no[2]];
        ptr++;
       *ptr = ~segments[dig_no[1]];
 
    }
  // flag.tmr0F=0;
   
 }

I need to recheck this bit of shifting out code, but the idea is
correct. Note you can choose the direction of shift which will depend
entirely on how you wired up the LCD segments.

void out_5832(unsigned char *shift_data)
{
       unsigned char bitcount;
       unsigned char bytecount=2;
               
       tx_port &= ~(1<<latch_pin);
       
       
        do
          {
            for (bitcount=0x80;bitcount>0; bitcount>>=1)
              {
                  tx_port &= ~ (1<<clock_pin);
         
                data = (shift_data[bytecount]) &bitcount;      
       
       
         
         tx_port |= (1<<clock_pin);
       
       }
       
       bytecount --;
       }
       while( bytecount <4);
         tx_port^=1<<latch_pin;
         tx_port^=1<<latch_pin;

}

Colin
--
cdb, EraseMEcolinspamspamspamBeGonebtech-online.co.uk on 18/02/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

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2009\02\17@223023 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM, cdb <RemoveMEcolinKILLspamspambtech-online.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

This is awesome. I thought shift registers change their output AS YOU
PULSE IN THE DATA. So, let me get this straight: they also have an
"enable" pin so the output can be set all at once instead of
pulse-by-pulse as you're shifting in the data? If the enable pin is
not "enabled (on)" does the output reset to zero or does it maintain
its previous state? These shift registers are really cool port
expanders... I thought the output continuously changes as you're
pulsing in data which is kind of inconvenient...


--
solarwind

2009\02\17@230401 by cdb

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face


:: So, let me get this straight: they also have an
:: "enable" pin so the output can be set all at once instead of
:: pulse-by-pulse as you're shifting in the data? If the enable pin is
:: not "enabled (on)" does the output reset to zero or does it
:: maintain
:: its previous state?

The two I've mentioned require the 'latch' pin to be toggled, others
may not, the datasheets for the 595 and 5832 are lurking on the net
for further details of these two. You could also look at dedicated
serial to parallel chips or even perhaps the Philips range of I2C port
extenders, but these might not have a latch mechanism.

The pins retain their previous state.

You do need to bear in mind, that using shift register as a port
extender will slow down the output, which is fine for an LCD, but
might be a problem for other circuits.

Actually this probably isn't OT anymore!

Colin
--
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2009\02\17@230446 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
solarwind wrote:

> This is awesome. I thought shift registers change their output AS YOU
> PULSE IN THE DATA. So, let me get this straight: they also have an
> "enable" pin so the output can be set all at once instead of
> pulse-by-pulse as you're shifting in the data? If the enable pin is
> not "enabled (on)" does the output reset to zero or does it maintain
> its previous state? These shift registers are really cool port
> expanders... I thought the output continuously changes as you're
> pulsing in data which is kind of inconvenient...

Simple ones pulse as they shift, but the popular ones like the 74HC595
have output registers with a "strobe" or "register clock" pin to clock
out the whole port at once.

Cheers,

Bob

2009\02\17@230644 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:34 PM, cdb wrote:

>> : that gets all the right people in the same place at the same time  
>> and manage to actually accomplish something...)
>
> Are you some sort of subversive with that sort of idea? Governments
> could never run on such an ideology!  :)

I may talk about it over in the "successful engineering experiences"  
thread, eventually.  It would probably be prudent to wait for at least  
one of the derived products to ship, IMO.  It was pretty remarkable  
even for entities much smaller than a "government."

BillW


2009\02\17@233110 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Bob Blick <spamBeGonebobblickSTOPspamspamEraseMEftml.net> wrote:
> Simple ones pulse as they shift, but the popular ones like the 74HC595
> have output registers with a "strobe" or "register clock" pin to clock
> out the whole port at once.
>

Thanks for mentioning the chips. I'll add that to my shopping list.

--
solarwind

2009\02\17@234449 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:03 PM, cdb <KILLspamcolinspamBeGonespambtech-online.co.uk> wrote:
> You do need to bear in mind, that using shift register as a port
> extender will slow down the output, which is fine for an LCD, but
> might be a problem for other circuits.

The datasheet for the 74HC595 says:

> Guaranteed shift frequency: DC to 30 MHz

My microcontroller runs way slower than that so I'll have no problems there :)

...Unless I misinterpreted what the datasheet meant by shift frequency
(is it the maximum frequency I can pulse the clock?)...

--
solarwind

2009\02\18@030738 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> This is awesome. I thought shift registers change their output AS YOU
> PULSE IN THE DATA. So, let me get this straight: they also have an
> "enable" pin so the output can be set all at once instead of
> pulse-by-pulse as you're shifting in the data?

A shift-register *by itself* changes it outputs when you clock in the
data. But an actual chip might combine such a shift register with a
holding register. As always, RTM for the details.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\02\23@182840 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

> Though I did ask if she would drop by and explain where all we were
> using microchip parts the next time it was convenient (It is a bit
> sad that it is much easier to get such information from a vendor than
> from internal sources.)

Not really... that's what they are for, one could say :)

It's actually good to see it working this way.

Gerhard

2009\02\23@192048 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
solarwind wrote:

> The datasheet for the 74HC595 says:
>
>> Guaranteed shift frequency: DC to 30 MHz
>
> My microcontroller runs way slower than that so I'll have no problems
> there :)
>
> ...Unless I misinterpreted what the datasheet meant by shift
> frequency (is it the maximum frequency I can pulse the clock?)...

That's exactly what it generally would mean. But you always should look
at the detailed specifications. Somewhere there are probably a maximum
clock frequency, minimum clock pulse widths, and other timing data that
helps you find out what's the real maximum that you can use it in your
application.

Gerhard

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