Searching \ for '[OT] Whatever happened to....' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=whatever+happened
Search entire site for: 'Whatever happened to....'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Whatever happened to....'
2006\01\10@200837 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
I was browsing the archives today and wondered what had become of some of
the more colorful characters that I've met on the list...

Tjaart van der Walt is apparently still working with Programmable Gain
Amplifiers...
http://www.pgatour.com/players/intro/476115

Wagner Lipnharski is running his company UST Research Inc. providing
Universal Solutions and "Better electronics for life"
http://www.ustr.net/
And he whittles in his spare time
http://www.ustr.net/foam

Annie Ogborn runs a zoo...
http://www.hon30.com/annieszoo/module.html
But her main job takes some real... guts...
http://pragatischool.org/

Andy Kunz still designs for Montana in New Jersey
http://www.montanadesign.com/
And makes little boats go fast
http://www.rc-hydros.com/

William K. Borsum is a logger and a neighbor of mine.
http://www.dascor.com

Tony Nixon became a pilot. I'm told he doesn't even own a computer anymore.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\01\10@203905 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
We also lost Peter Crowcroft to in June 2005. He and Tony were close at
one time.

Yes, I personally spoke to Tony by phone in April. Indeed, he didn't own
a computer
at that time. It wasn't his phone, either. There are days when Tony's
choices seem
pretty good to me...

--Bob

James Newton, Host wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
attachspamKILLspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\01\11@084645 by alan smith

picon face
Too bad about Tony....he was a good source of information, but perhaps he made a good choice in life!
 
 ya....not to own a computer....or be dependent on the internet....but I did go on vacation for 10 days and DIDNT take then laptop!

Bob Axtell <.....engineerKILLspamspam.....cotse.net> wrote:
 We also lost Peter Crowcroft to in June 2005. He and Tony were close at
one time.

Yes, I personally spoke to Tony by phone in April. Indeed, he didn't own
a computer
at that time. It wasn't his phone, either. There are days when Tony's
choices seem
pretty good to me...

--Bob

James Newton, Host wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
attachspamspam_OUTengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\01\11@092936 by Gaston Gagnon

face
flavicon
face
James Newton, Host wrote:

{Quote hidden}

The one I miss most is Roman Black. Any chance of him coming back?
Gaston

2006\01\11@133626 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> We also lost Peter Crowcroft to in June 2005. He and Tony
> were close at one time.

Peter passed away, no?

> Yes, I personally spoke to Tony by phone in April. Indeed, he
> didn't own a computer at that time. It wasn't his phone,
> either. There are days when Tony's choices seem pretty good to me...

Do what you love... Or who you love...

> --Bob
>


---
James.


2006\01\11@133847 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> The one I miss most is Roman Black. Any chance of him coming back?
> Gaston

He says he's just too busy. But who knows...

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


> {Original Message removed}

2006\01\11@191731 by John Nall

picon face
Just a comment on all this, for what it is worth.  First, it sounds like
there were a really great bunch of people here before I came aboard, and
I am sorry that I missed them.  :-(  Second, I would like to really,
really compliment the people who run the piclist.  Although not a member
of this particular list for all that long (perhaps 3 or 4 years -- not
sure) I was a contributing member of different Usenet groups for a long,
long time.  Before there was a world-wide web.

This seems to be a very well run list, with a core of contributing
people who are experts and also good people.  I have been on other lists
where there were experts, but they were not necessarily good people.  
And vice-versa.  I cannot help but wonder why a list of people who are
mainly concerned with a $2 chip (more or less) are like that?  Probably
for the same reason that people who bother to learn the Morse code are
better hams.  (That was a gratuitous comment, and a peeve of mine, so
just ignore it if you happen to disagree).

I also think that James And His Cohorts run an exceptionally tight
ship.   They seem to know just when to crack down, without being
obnoxious about it   Having been "zinged" myself by them, I can
appreciate that -- it is a thankless job.  So I am hereby thanking  
them.  :-)

Anyway ... for what it is worth (about what you paid for it).

John

2006\01\11@225353 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:

>>We also lost Peter Crowcroft to in June 2005. He and Tony
>>were close at one time.
>>    
>>
>
>Peter passed away, no?
>
Correct, lost to the "Big C". He fought it for 10 years though. He was a
colorful guy.

--Bob

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
KILLspamattachKILLspamspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\01\12@212257 by Mike Singer

picon face
John Nall wrote:

> I also think that James And His Cohorts run an exceptionally tight
> ship.   They seem to know just when to crack down, without being
> obnoxious about it

If I were Steven Spielberg, I'd make a movie kind of "Saving something
(say, civilization, at the very least) ..." about PICList, or "Men in
Black" :-) ...seriously.

Mike.

2006\01\13@122452 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> Just a comment on all this, for what it is worth.  First, it
> sounds like there were a really great bunch of people here

So true, but the current bunch is pretty darn fine. And many have been
around as long or longer than I have.

> before I came aboard, and I am sorry that I missed them.  :-(
>  Second, I would like to really, really compliment the people
> who run the piclist.  Although not a member of this
> particular list for all that long (perhaps 3 or 4 years -- not
> sure) I was a contributing member of different Usenet groups
> for a long, long time.  Before there was a world-wide web.

Now, don't go pulling my leg... We all know the web has been around
forever... <shudder> A world with out the internet. What kind of sick mind
could imagine such a thing? <grin>

> This seems to be a very well run list, with a core of
> contributing people who are experts and also good people.  I
> have been on other lists where there were experts, but they
> were not necessarily good people.  

Now that is a solid point. What does happen when there are people who are
not very nice but are very technically competent? How does that affect the
list in the end?

> And vice-versa.  I cannot help but wonder why a list of
> people who are mainly concerned with a $2 chip (more or less)
> are like that?  Probably for the same reason that people who
> bother to learn the Morse code are better hams.  (That was a
> gratuitous comment, and a peeve of mine, so just ignore it if
> you happen to disagree).

No, if you look back through the archives, there were lots of very nasty
people on this list at one time or another. There was a guy whos wife had
just died and he posted a little tribute to her only to be rebuffed by an
asshole who objected to a passing religious reference in it. I got involved
as an admin after that one. There was a guy who claimed that women were
unable to be responsible with a gun. I kicked him off the list and when he
came back, some years later, he kept his opinions on that issue to himself.
There have been people who felt that shame and humiliation were the best way
to teach newbies not to ask "dumb" questions. I've tried to keep them off
the list. Some people will sell their souls for expert advice.

I may be taking more credit than I deserve, but I really do feel that the
topic tags, policing the list to keep anti-social types off and making sure
people understand and respect each others needs has made this a nice(er)
place.

Scott and others who left around the time I took over due to being fed up
with the yelling, screaming, hate and just lousy signal to noise ratio have
come back. But then others haven't. I miss them.

> I also think that James And His Cohorts run an exceptionally tight
> ship.   They seem to know just when to crack down, without being
> obnoxious about it   Having been "zinged" myself by them, I can
> appreciate that -- it is a thankless job.  So I am hereby
> thanking them.  :-)

Most welcome. Please consider contributing yourself by volunteering as an
admin, sharing working code, or donating time or money to any of the fine
people listed at
http://www.piclist.com/support

> Anyway ... for what it is worth (about what you paid for it).
>
> John
>
> -

2006\01\13@134548 by John Nall

picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> > Now that is a solid point. What does happen when there are people who are
> not very nice but are very technically competent? How does that affect the
> list in the end?
>  
.
Answering two questions with one answer, it affects it in a negative
fashion, in two ways (that immediately come to mind).  First, they tend
to be very condescending in their replies, and make the recipient feel
very dumb.  Second, when other people answer first, the "expert" jumps
in and makes fun of their replies.  Therefore, people leave the list in
disgust.  I have never seen either of those happen on this list.  (Maybe
it has happened, but I have never seen it).  Sometimes there is
impatience with someone, but most of  the  time there is a  good reason
(IMHO).

> > Most welcome. Please consider contributing yourself by volunteering as an
> admin, sharing working code, or donating time or money to any of the fine
> people listed at
> http://www.piclist.com/support
>  
I do contribute when I think that I can make a worthwhile contribution.  
Trouble is, my particular area of expertise is not too much in demand on
this list.  :-)   So far as sharing working code, I posted a tutorial on
the 18F452 timer to piclist.com back some time ago, and several people
said it was helpful to them.   Also post some stuff to microchip.forum
every now and then (using a pseudonym -- that one is a little bit too
public).   Be glad to volunteer as an admin.  Can I kick anyone off  
that I want to???  :-)

John

2006\01\13@143709 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> What does happen when there are people who are not very nice
> but are very technically competent? How does that affect the
> list in the end?

It hardens the skin of those who are on the receiving side, which might
not be a bad thing. And it contributes to the technical level. And it
places a burden on the list maintainers...

More seriously: it depends a lot on the (relative?) values of both
"very"'s.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\13@144247 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
{Quote hidden}

I was doing my standard "fund raising" thing and should have been more clear
that I was targeting everyone not just you, John. I do know that you have
contributed.

> Trouble is, my particular area of expertise is not too much
> in demand on
> this list.  :-)   So far as sharing working code, I posted a
> tutorial on
> the 18F452 timer to piclist.com back some time ago, and
> several people
> said it was helpful to them.

I remember that... And I found the post that you offered it up. But I'll be
darned if I can find it on the site... Are you shure I got a copy?

  Also post some stuff to
> microchip.forum
> every now and then (using a pseudonym -- that one is a little bit too
> public).   Be glad to volunteer as an admin.  Can I kick anyone off  
> that I want to???  :-)

Yes, but we may just re-subscribe them... <grin> Mostly you have to
understand mailman and then just read the list and discuss problems with the
other admins and try to manage issues offlist.

In any case, Thank you to John and to all.

> John
>
> -

2006\01\13@153934 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> What does happen when there are people who are not very nice
>> but are very technically competent? How does that affect the
>> list in the end?
>
> It hardens the skin of those who are on the receiving side,
> which might not be a bad thing. And it contributes to the
> technical level. And it places a burden on the list maintainers.

There are a lot of dimensions to "not very nice."  For instance, I
can put up with Olin's particular brand of gruffness without much
pain, but some guy off in another forum managed to piss me off in
about three messages along the lines of "I've done this longer
than you and made a lot of money doing it, so you should just
believe me."   I think for me it has a lot to do with how well
people manage to keep their facts and their opinions in the
proper places :-)

BillW

2006\01\13@162604 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 1/13/06, William Chops Westfield <RemoveMEwestfwTakeThisOuTspammac.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> There are a lot of dimensions to "not very nice."  For instance, I
> can put up with Olin's particular brand of gruffness without much
> pain, but some guy off in another forum managed to piss me off in
> about three messages along the lines of "I've done this longer
> than you and made a lot of money doing it, so you should just
> believe me."   I think for me it has a lot to do with how well
> people manage to keep their facts and their opinions in the
> proper places :-)
>
>
People here seem to be more open minded. I don't think that anybody here
thinks too much of them selves, and all the discussions are relaxed. I feel
quite at home here.

I think that Forum begins with the same letter that you spell fuck and flame
(please excuse the language with), and therefor is evil! That's my
mailinglist starts with an M! And we all know that M is for Mellow! Haha.

Sean.

2006\01\13@162634 by R. I. Nelson

picon face
part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 1684 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed (decoded 7bit)

>
>
> <>John Nall replied:
> Answering two questions with one answer, it affects it in a
> negative fashion, in two ways (that immediately come to
> mind). First, they tend to be very condescending in their
> replies, and make the recipient feel very dumb. Second, when
> other people answer first, the "expert" jumps in and makes
> fun of their replies. Therefore, people leave the list in
> disgust. I have never seen either of those happen on this
> list. (Maybe it has happened, but I have never seen it).


17 years ago I was employed as an Electromechanical Tech for a major
international food products company.  They brought in a company called
Kempner Teogh(I think the spelling is off on that).  They instructed a
class in Information technics. It was how to run meetings to solve
problems. One of  things was a list of items that werecounter-productive
to an organized meeting Near the top of that list was somthing called
"shell tapping".  This is where some who for someone  wil make fun of or
pick at some everytime they make a coment. Like tap on the shell of most
turtles and they will with draw inside the shell.  Do it enough and You
will eliminate that persons input to the meeting or group in this case.

Some of you pic masters or whatever the correct term is, should think of
things with this attitude. " How much better  off would  you and the
world  be if, instead of  trying to publicly  embarass or put down  
someone on the list you would just give them a kind remark correcting
them or take it  offlist to instruct them of the proper thing.






part 2 391 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8;
(decoded 7bit)

begin:vcard
fn:Robert I. Nelson
n:Nelson;Robert I.
org:RIN Designs
adr:;;P.O. BOX 373;RIPON;WI;54971;USA
email;internet:spamBeGonerindesignsspamBeGonespamcharter.net
tel;work:1-(920)-229-7152
tel;home:1-(920)-748-7443
note;quoted-printable:Custom design and building of small electro mechanical devices.=0D=0A=
       AUTOCAD work ver2002
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
version:2.1
end:vcard



part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2006\01\13@163142 by John Nall

picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> > I remember that... And I found the post that you offered it up. But I'll be
> darned if I can find it on the site... Are you shure I got a copy?

My recollection is that I submitted it as a Microsoft Word file, and
that didn't fit your format.  So you re-did it in the proper format and
put it somewhere.   It was not a bad tutorial, and the 18F452 is still a
popular chip, so if it is not on piclist.com I can send you another copy
(still in Word, though).

John

2006\01\13@165046 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Some of you pic masters or whatever the correct term is,
> should think of things with this attitude.
> " How much better  off would  you and the
> world  be if, instead of  trying to publicly  embarass or put down  
> someone on the list you would just give them a kind remark correcting
> them or take it  offlist to instruct them of the proper thing.

For one thing this assumes that some 'pic masters' *are trying* to
embarass. How do you know? It might just be their normal mode of
communication, whether you like that or not.

For another: I am not sure the world would be better of if stupidity is
not identified. The trouble is that there will alsways be false
positives, and the only way to reduce the false positives is to increase
the amount of false negatives :(

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\13@172244 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
I remember that...

But I can't find the tutorial on the site. Could you send it to
TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonEraseMEspamspam_OUTpiclist.com again please? Word format is fine. Maybe if I'm
looking at the content I will be able to find it...

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2006\01\14@102234 by olin piclist

face picon face
R. I. Nelson wrote:
> How much better off would
> you and the world  be if, instead of  trying to publicly  embarass
> or put down someone on the list you would just give them a kind
> remark correcting them or take it offlist to instruct them of the
> proper thing.

This depends on the situation.  An honest mistake with no ill intention
shouldn't be put down.  However, dealing kindly and privately with someone
trying to "get away with" something is not useful for two reasons.  First,
it's rather painless for that person so there is little incentive to not do
it again.  Second, since nobody else saw the admonition it gives the
impression that the behavior is condoned.

This is an area where I have a strong disagreement with James.  Many of the
bigger problems on this list were because the standards have been and are
more ambiguous than they need to be.  If James sees a post he doesn't like
and sends a message to the offender, only the offender learns from that.  In
fact, everyone else learns exactly the opposite.  They see a marginal post
with no apparent reaction from James and therefore can only assume that it
was acceptable.

Another advantage of reacting publicly is that the response is likely to be
more reasoned and less knee jerk emotional.  You will probably say things
differently if you think 1500 people will read it than if you think only one
person will read it that you've already decided is a bozo.  James has a
tendency to assume hostile intent when someone strays over the line a bit.
This results in him getting emotional and overreacting.  I think in the vast
majority of cases there is no hostile intent, only the inevitable
differences in judgement between two people especially when the rules are a
bit vague in the first place.  Sometimes there are also outright errors
which may be a little harder to differentiate from hostile intent.  However
honest error should be given the benefit of doubt without further evidence.
Using a sledge hammer when a fly swatter would do is just going to piss off
people towards the admins needlessly.  This is not a good thing in general,
and certainly counter productive if you are asking for volunteer support for
the list.

The world has gotten way to PC, and we seem to have forgotten that it takes
two to be offended.  We immediately jump to the conclusion that the offender
was at fault when it is just as likely that the offendee was at fault.  In
other words, if you can't take someone telling you that you've been an
idiot, you don't belong on a mail list, the internet, or much anywhere else
in life.  Someone telling you that they have perceived you as acting like an
idiot is actually useful information, whether you agree with the assesment
or not.  Take it as a single point of information and not personally.  In
other words, get over it.

(Disclaimer: I am not an admin and these are only my personal opinions.)


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\14@145948 by Alexandre Guimaraes

face picon face
   I have always hated "me too" messages.... But.... I really miss Roman's
great posts and ingenious thinking... Having him back would really be
great...

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

>> The one I miss most is Roman Black. Any chance of him coming back?
>> Gaston
>
> He says he's just too busy. But who knows...


2006\01\15@141154 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Another advantage of reacting publicly is that the response is likely to
> be more reasoned and less knee jerk emotional.  You will probably say
> things differently if you think 1500 people will read it than if you
> think only one person will read it that you've already decided is a
> bozo.  

I'm not sure this is how it works. There seems to be a tendency to get into
strange fights ('flame wars') that are typical for public exchanges. This
type of behavior seems to be less likely in a 1-to-1 communication, even if
it's still not eye-to-eye. So I think there may be good reasons to take
certain issues offlist into a private conversation.

Gerhard

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2006 , 2007 only
- Today
- New search...