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'[OT] What is trying to kill me? was: Extermination'
2007\09\27@182811 by James Newton

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>>I read somewhere that deer are more dangerous to humans than spiders,
>>snakes, sharks, bears, and lightning combined.
>>--
>
>As someone who has been in automobile accidents with deer twice, I
>would agree with that. And in both cases, the deer were uninsured!

Don't blame the deer; it's the car that was trying to kill you. CARS are
more dangerous to humans than... well, than just about anything else:

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds_dying.jpg

Only cancer (1 in 7) and stroke (1 in 24) are more likely to kill you than
your car; which will kill one in every 84 of us.

Your car is more dangerous than:

- Suicide 119
- Falling 218
- Firearm assault 314
- Pedestrian accident 626 (so that car figure apparently doesn't include
people who are RUN OVER by cars...)
- Drowning 1008
- Motorcycles 1020 (so that car figure apparently doesn't include
MOTORCYCLES)
- Fire or smoke
- Bicycling (again the car figure doesn't include bikes)
- Airplanes AND spaceships
- Firearm accidents

Terrorist doesn't even make the list. You quite literally have a better
chance of being killed by lightening (79,746) than being killed by a
terrorist (> 1 in 1,000,000).
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/911.htm

The number one PREVENTABLE cause of your dying in the USA? Driving your car.

http://www.publictransportation.org/contact/support.asp

--
James

2007\09\27@183354 by Chris Smolinski

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>The number one PREVENTABLE cause of your dying in the USA? Driving your car.
>
>http://www.publictransportation.org/contact/support.asp
>

Certainly an unbiased organization ;-)

--

---
Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com

2007\09\27@210900 by James Newton

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>>The number one PREVENTABLE cause of your dying in the USA? Driving your
car.
>>
>>www.publictransportation.org/contact/support.asp
>>
>
>Certainly an unbiased organization ;-)
>

My statement was not based on figures from that organization but instead
from the National Safety Institute.

--
James.



2007\09\28@044616 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu]
>On Behalf Of James Newton
>Sent: 27 September 2007 23:28
>To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'
>Subject: RE: [OT] What is trying to kill me? was: Extermination...
>
>
>Your car is more dangerous than:
>
>- Suicide 119

Driving a car is more likely to get yourself killed than a suicide attempt?  I think you mean that more people die from auto accidents than from suicide attempts. No assumption of danger or risk can be derived from this unless you know how many people tried to kill themselves compared to those that drove cars...

Regards

Mike

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2007\09\28@050808 by Jake Anderson

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu]
>> On Behalf Of James Newton
>> Sent: 27 September 2007 23:28
>> To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'
>> Subject: RE: [OT] What is trying to kill me? was: Extermination...
>>
>>
>> Your car is more dangerous than:
>>
>> - Suicide 119
>>    
>
> Driving a car is more likely to get yourself killed than a suicide attempt?  I think you mean that more people die from auto accidents than from suicide attempts. No assumption of danger or risk can be derived from this unless you know how many people tried to kill themselves compared to those that drove cars...
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>  
I think you misunderstand.
The list james has is cause of death
IE how many people die of suicide, not how many people die per attempt.
so 1 person in 119 will kill themselves.

2007\09\28@064456 by Lee Jones

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>>> Your car is more dangerous than:
>>>
>>> - Suicide 119

>> Driving a car is more likely to get yourself killed than a suicide
>> attempt?  I think you mean that more people die from auto accidents
>> than from suicide attempts. No assumption of danger or risk can be
>> derived from this unless you know how many people tried to kill
>> themselves compared to those that drove cars...

> I think you misunderstand.

I think you misunderstood Mike's comment.

> The list james has is cause of death
> IE how many people die of suicide, not how many people die
> per attempt.  so 1 person in 119 will kill themselves.

Correct.  But equating "cause of death" with level of danger (i.e.
"car is more dangerous") is wrong.

For anyone who is even moderatly competent, the risk or danger
of death from a suicide attempt should approach 100% leathality.
(According to Wikipedia, average leathality of all suicide attempts
is 5% to 10% worldwide.  So I guess a lot of the people who attempt
suicide are posturing or are incompetent or both.)

The risk of death from a single trip in a car is much lower than
the 5% to 10% rate of a single suicide attempt.

                                               Lee Jones

2007\09\28@071401 by Alan B. Pearce

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>For anyone who is even moderatly competent, the risk or danger
>of death from a suicide attempt should approach 100% leathality.
>(According to Wikipedia, average leathality of all suicide attempts
>is 5% to 10% worldwide.  So I guess a lot of the people who attempt
>suicide are posturing or are incompetent or both.)

This sounds like a problem with definition of 'attempt'.
What constitutes an attempt?
Is standing at the top of a precipice an attempt, or do you have to actually
jump off for it to be classed as an attempt?

2007\09\28@074237 by Peter Todd

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On Fri, Sep 28, 2007 at 12:13:43PM +0100, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Perhaps it's best put another way. Being *suicidal* is one of the most
dangerous things you can do, with something like a %5 or %10 chance of
death for that "activity" in your lifetime.

But if you're not suicidal, the chance of dying from suicide is... er...
low. Unless maybe you count Darwin Awards. :)

- --
http://petertodd.org
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2007\09\28@103017 by Eoin Ross

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I'd like to know how many car "accidents" ARE suicide attempts (Might be hard to tell them apart from a driver with a lower than average IQ though)

>>> EraseMEMichael.Rigby-Jonesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTbookham.com 28 Sep 07 04:46:15 >>>


>{Original Message removed}

2007\09\28@114045 by Peter Todd

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On Fri, Sep 28, 2007 at 10:30:38AM -0400, Eoin Ross wrote:
> I'd like to know how many car "accidents" ARE suicide attempts (Might be hard to tell them apart from a driver with a lower than average IQ though)

Quite a few I'm sure. I knew a guy who mysteriously hit a bridge support
on the inside of a curve at very high speed. Wasn't drinking, good
conditions, no other traffic, he'd had plenty of rest the night before.
He wasn't known to be a risk taker, but you just never know.

When it comes to sure-fire and available ways of killing youself, I'd
say cars are probably about 3rd after guns and falling. In his case, he
lived outside of the city, so heights are out, and he wouldn't have had
access to guns...

- --
http://petertodd.org
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2007\09\28@115106 by Tony Smith

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> I'd like to know how many car "accidents" ARE suicide
> attempts (Might be hard to tell them apart from a driver with
> a lower than average IQ though)
>


Officially none, it's recorded as a car accident.  Unofficially, more than
you'd think.

It's thought by some that around 10% of all single occupant accidents are
suicides.  These are the ones where you find someone has driven thru the
desert and managed to hit the only tree while not wearing a seatbelt.

One who believes that was a researcher I heard interviewed a while back.
She stated one reason for choosing this method was there was less stigma
attached to it; it won't be thought to be a suicide, so less stress on the
family (if that's possible).

An interesting comment she made was that tightening of Australian gun laws
had caused this 'suicide by car' rate to increase.  I'm not sure I agree
with that.  The laws were changed after this -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_%28Australia%29>, her
assertion was that reduced access to guns meant other methods needed to be
found.  In short, the new laws meant semi-auto etc weapons were banned, but
that didn't affect normal shotguns & bolt-action rifles (except to limit
magazines to five rounds).  Since you're only going to be firing one shot
regardless of weapon, I'm not sure of her logic there.  (Do people really
think 'oh, better use an auto as I might miss the first time'?)

Beside, gun suicides had been declining for years, and it's impossible to
tell the difference between an accident and a suicide, so who knows.

As far the the difference between 'real' suicides and those 'not quite
sure', a coroner once said it depended on the length of the suicide note.
The longer the note, the less like the person would success.  Real suicides
simply get up, walk over to the window and jump out.

Me?  I'm going to bed.

Tony

2007\09\28@120004 by Alan B. Pearce

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>When it comes to sure-fire and available ways of killing youself,
>I'd say cars are probably about 3rd after guns and falling.

It also becomes extremely hard for life insurance companies to refuse to pay
out on suicide in a car smash.

Other methods of killing oneself can be more easily said to be suicide.

2007\09\29@164145 by Howard Winter

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James,

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:27:53 -0700, James Newton wrote:

>...
> Your car is more dangerous than:
>
> - Suicide

I love the idea of something being more dangerous than suicide!  :-)

> - Firearm assault

Presumably these are US figures - it would be interesting to see the UK figures since this one, legal execution and earthquakes would all be much lower (or zero)
here.  I don't think we live significantly longer - I wonder what we die from instead of these?

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\09\29@181724 by Brendan Gillatt

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Howard Winter wrote:
> James,
> Presumably these are US figures - it would be interesting to see the UK figures since this one, legal execution and earthquakes would all be much lower (or zero)
> here.  I don't think we live significantly longer - I wonder what we die from instead of these?

Drownings from torrential summer downpours and heart attack from seeing
Cherie Blair's grin

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk
http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk
PGP Key: pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433
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'[OT] What is trying to kill me? was: Extermination'
2007\10\01@054008 by Alan B. Pearce
face picon face
>Drownings from torrential summer downpours and
>heart attack from seeing Cherie Blair's grin

Seizures from Gordon Browns edicts about Public Service salaries causing
inflation ...

Alan (subject to 2% limit to stop inflation)

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