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'[OT] Was: Beginners Problem ?? now Units'
1999\03\14@155006 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 02:32 PM 3/14/99 -0600, you wrote:
>It was my thought that at least in the US anyway, when you got to 1,000,000,
>that meant 1
>million( or one thousand thousand).  When you have one thousand thousand
>thousand, that is one billion.  Now, note that the root prefix of Million
>(Mono), means one or the first order of thousand above thousand, and that
>the root prefix of Billion (Bi),  means two, or  the second order of
>thousand above a thousand.   Thereafter, it follows that the third order of
>a thousand beyond a thousand would be a trillion, or (Tri) etc., etc., etc.
>Was anyone else taught this in grade school?

Now that I think about it,I recall somewhere seeing that the root for
Million was actually Mille (meaning thousand,from Latin) and that it
refered to a thousand of whatever base unit you are talking about. Your
explanation of how Billion comes from Bis for two makes sense above
that,but I think that the base unit is what is in dispute here,whether it
is 1000 or 1x10^6

>
>Regards,
>
>Jim

Sean


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| Sean Breheny
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1999\03\14@160041 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 14:32 03/14/99 -0600, Jim Paul wrote:
>It was my thought that at least in the US anyway, when you got to 1,000,000,
>that meant 1
>million( or one thousand thousand).  When you have one thousand thousand
>thousand, that is one billion.  Now, note that the root prefix of Million
>(Mono), means one or the first order of thousand above thousand, and that
>the root prefix of Billion (Bi),  means two, or  the second order of
>thousand above a thousand.   Thereafter, it follows that the third order of
>a thousand beyond a thousand would be a trillion, or (Tri) etc., etc., etc.
>Was anyone else taught this in grade school?

i don't know... seems rather forced "logic" (but a good way to remember it
:). in german language (and AFAIK in uk english, too), it is

 1 million = 10^6; ("mono" = 1)
 1 billion = 10^12 = 1 million * 1 million; ("bi" = 2)
 1 trillion = 10^18 = 1 million * 1 million * 1 million; ("tri" = 3)

which seems a more consistent "logic" to me :)  but luckily most of us
don't have to worry about such amounts and their interpretations on their
checks. we could be in =real= trouble then... :)

ge

1999\03\15@115345 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
There is a possible explanation:
See, in latin, that gave origen to Italian, French,
Portuguese, Spanish and others, the "thousand" word is
something like "mil", "mile" (not as the american mile,
that also must have something to do with it, but said
as en english m"ee"le).  Now, a way to represent a
superlative (big) meaning to some words, is ending it
with the sound "...on", or "...‹o", then for example
the portuguese word "carro" (car) can be said "carr‹o"
(with the ending "...on" sound) to represent a big
car, so probably the word "million" that in portuguese
written is "milh‹o", means a big "mil" (thousand),
so every 3 zeroes, it turns to be mi-llion, bi, tri,
quatri, and this is directly from latin, right?

I use the international system units, and when it says
that Giga was created to avoid the "billion = thousand
millions" confusion, I would addopt it. So please
next time someone from UK would write a check to me,
use Giga instead Billion, ok? :)
"Two Giga Dollars and no cents".
--------------------------------------------------------
Wagner Lipnharski - UST Research Inc. - Orlando, Florida
Forum and microcontroller web site:  http://www.ustr.net
Microcontrollers Survey:  http://www.ustr.net/tellme.htm

1999\03\15@153005 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 11:50 03/15/99 -0500, Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
>I use the international system units, and when it says
>that Giga was created to avoid the "billion = thousand
>millions" confusion, I would addopt it. So please
>next time someone from UK would write a check to me,
>use Giga instead Billion, ok? :)
>"Two Giga Dollars and no cents".

actually, the uk billion is Tera... the Tera pound sterling to me, please :)

ge

1999\03\16@110356 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
Dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:
> Hi,
> I think the phrase "all over the world" is not precise. For instance, here
> in Hungary, a billion is also 10^12. The number 10^9 is called here
> "milliard" (I do not know whether this is general). 10^24 is quadrillion,
> 10^30 is quintillion, etc. In Hungary, in 1946 there was the hugest money
> inflation of the world, so there existed such money note as xxx
> quadrillion...
> Imre

Just to try to understand... is there any connection between the use of
Billion = 10^12 and the Imperial or Metric system?  What system is used
in Hungary?

By the way, Brazil also got its high infration rates during several
years,
but they just cut three zeros from the money from time to time, and
print
new currency paper and coins.  I believe it happened at least 6 times,
what means it already lost eighteen zeros,  000,000,000,000,000,000
along the history.  We survived inflation rates of 40% a month. It means
expending the monthly salary payment in the same day it was received,
in food and goods, or the money looses its purchase power in 1% a day.

Wagner

1999\03\16@151025 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 11:01 03/16/99 -0500, Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
>Just to try to understand... is there any connection between the use of
>Billion = 10^12 and the Imperial or Metric system?

i don't think so, they seem disconnected.

usa: small billion, modified imperial system
brazil: small billion, metric system
uk: big billion, imperial system
germany (and hungary, too, i think): big billion, metric system


>along the history.  We survived inflation rates of 40% a month. It means
>expending the monthly salary payment in the same day it was received,
>in food and goods, or the money looses its purchase power in 1% a day.

unless you're part of the upper 10% and have inflation-protected bank
accounts and investments... :)

ge

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