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'[OT] WIN95'
1999\10\27@144001 by WF

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       Where can i buy the original WIN95? (ENGLISH VERSION)

       Miguel

1999\10\27@164126 by Simon Redwood

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Reply To: "Simon Redwood" <spam_OUTspredwoodTakeThisOuTspamsri-net.demon.co.uk>
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WHY ?

I'm sure you do better if you put your mind to it...

>         Where can i buy the original WIN95? (ENGLISH VERSION)
>
>         Miguel
>


--
Regards,
Simon

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1999\10\27@170155 by John De Villiers

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Antique Shops

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of WF
> Sent: 27 October 1999 09:39
> To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [OT] WIN95
>
>
>         Where can i buy the original WIN95? (ENGLISH VERSION)
>
>         Miguel
>

1999\10\27@170816 by Dan Larson

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Under the coffee mugs of OS/2 or Linux users....

On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:01:48 +0200, John De Villiers wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\10\27@171437 by M. Adam Davis

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Well, if you can get it used then it'll be cheaper, but if you want a
new copy it's the same cost as win98.  Is there a reason to go with 95
as opposed to 98?

-Adam

WF wrote:
>
>         Where can i buy the original WIN95? (ENGLISH VERSION)
>
>         Miguel

1999\10\27@171743 by Harrison Cooper

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little frustrating when someone asks a real question...

anyway, you can still buy the OEM version of WIN95, but it will be the
latest build, so when you say original, do you mean the first release?  I
just got a machine configured, and had win95 put on rather than win98 (due
to no printer drivers for my application)

1999\10\27@172534 by Andy Kunz

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At 05:13 PM 10/27/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, if you can get it used then it'll be cheaper, but if you want a
>new copy it's the same cost as win98.  Is there a reason to go with 95
>as opposed to 98?

Yes, it's much more reliable.  Also more secure - you should see how many
messages I get from M$ about holes in their products, esp NT and 98 and
related apps (like Internet Exploder).

Andy

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1999\10\27@203905 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> At 05:13 PM 10/27/1999 -0400, you wrote:
> >Well, if you can get it used then it'll be cheaper, but if you want a
> >new copy it's the same cost as win98.  Is there a reason to go with 95
> >as opposed to 98?
>
> Yes, it's much more reliable.  Also more secure - you should see how many
> messages I get from M$ about holes in their products, esp NT and 98 and
> related apps (like Internet Exploder).
>
> Andy

You see... first I got *no* problem at all with DOS (take 5 minutes to
install, including the hard disk formatting), no abends, no reboots, no
crashes, then I was forced to go to Win3 then 3.11 (1 hour install),
then some maniac thought that a machine full of
"dont-know-why-my-hard-disk-has-so-many-files" would run better, (it
took 2 hours to install) and suddenly you got 19600 unknown files at
your skinny hard disk, and every 5 minutes the machine got hungry asking
"Insert Disk #74 at disk A:", and well, when things start to get 30%
operational (what would be a complete success), and everyone bought a
bigger hard disk (1GB) the same maniac thought that was time to
literally mess with everyone's peace of mind, and convinced the world
that he fixed all the problems with a new platform version, and guess
what? as a fantastic reaction lots of people believed in him, even when
his own nationwide TV product presentation marvelously crashed live on
TV... is that a formula to get rich very fast? or what?  Ok, why all of
this? just because I tried to install Win98 3 times, the first one took
just 4 hours to update all my disks, and it just crashed at reboot (you
can't imagine the little work I had to fix it and back to Win95,
right?), the second was a fresh clean HD, it rebooted the machine
automatically 18 times and never finished the installation... (I had an
ethernet card PNP that Win98 simply could not understand what to do
with), the third was in a different machine, but then we realized that
40% of the programs just don't run even being said that all Win95 progs
run in Win98.  We paid $6500 for a windows program in 1996, it can't
recognize printers list in W95 or W98... so, you tell me, would you take
a 747 flight with the auto pilot and navigation system controlled by
Windows98?  "Here is the captain speaking, we are at 30,000 ft and
flying at 600mph, but our landing will be delayed because a little
technical problem... by the way, somebody aboard has the WIndows98
emergency boot diskette?"

Hey Bill, I admire you and all, but why it doesn't work and crash when
you most need it working?

1999\10\27@213528 by Thomas Brandon

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It seems to be a common misconception that there is actually a difference
between 95 and 98 in some non superficial way. There is not. Win 98 is just
the next in a line of rereleased, more patched 95's (95->95b->95
OSR2->98->98 Second Edition). All 98 is is Win 95, with all the patches
applied and the IE integration by default (which is very nice, and very
similar to what Netscape is planning for sometime down the track, when
someone in the public decides to write it and GIVE it to Netscape (sorry)).
Any bug in 98 would be in 95 if it was configured in the same fashion. The
only difference is that IE5 included pretty much completely revised common
controls which introduced a few install problems. This is why products such
as Office 2000 require IE5.

And to suggest NT has more bugs than 95 is just ridiculous (actually it
does, but not per feature and not nearly as bad). You see many more reports
about bugs in NT cause M$ actually care about NT's future. The only reason
for 9x was to bridge the gap between 16bit DOS and 32bit NT. M$ did not want
to release 98 and really don't want another version. All major development
effort is focused on NT and 32bit apps with 64bit starting to be worked on.
I can't see any reason to choose 98 over 95 apart from liking bugs.

Also, if you want to use any of the new features of the unified WDM
(Window's Driver Model) 98 is even more of a must. For instance,  all USB
support is aimed at 98, there are patches for 95 but these will not recieve
the attention 98's code will. Hence by sticking with 95 you are simply using
a less mature product and ensuring you recieve even less support from M$.

More reliable, yeah right. More secure, not really. I'm not saying 98 is
much better, but it ain't worse I'll tell you that. Are you still using
MPLAB 3.0 as well? I'm sure you don't see nearly as many reports about bugs
in MPLAB 3 as MPLAB 4, so it must be better.

Sorry for the long OT I just get frustrated by the number of people out
there with misconceptions such as this. Oh, and I'm not trying to have a go
at those who have these misconceptions, more those who spread them (and I'm
not referring to Andy here, I'm referring to the magazines and web pages).

Tom.
{Original Message removed}

1999\10\27@215450 by Tony Nixon

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I'm still using the first copy of win95 I got. I did a dual install over
win3.1 (which I still have operational), and I can boot up in DOS 6.2
with no windows what so-ever. It's all on a 6 year old 486 and has never
let me down yet after upteen 1000's of hours use - (touch wood). It does
everything I need and reasonably fast, PIC, PCB and Schematics design,
Windows software, even word processing and PDF creation as well as web
access etc etc ad nauseum.

I haven't had a need to jump on the technology band wagon yet, but I
feel that time will be forced on me sooner or later. These new CD
writers aren't too friendly with ol' grandpoppy 486.

It's amazing, I upgraded to a new whiz bang windoze compiler, and the
result was an increase in code size by 200K and the application runs
about 20% slower. There's so many curtains over windows now, it's
getting harder to see the cracks.

--
Best regards

Tony

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email RemoveMEsalesTakeThisOuTspampicnpoke.com

1999\10\27@225917 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Thomas Brandon wrote:
> Sorry for the long OT I just get frustrated by the number of people out
> there with misconceptions such as this. Oh, and I'm not trying to have a go
> at those who have these misconceptions, more those who spread them (and I'm
> not referring to Andy here, I'm referring to the magazines and web pages).
>
> Tom.

Thomas, your explaination about the versions was nice, and I thank you
for that. Tomorrow morning I will try to explain to one of our pentium
(Intel 233MHz) computers (2GB, 64MB) what misconception is, so then I
guess, Win98 will finally complete installation. I also guess that
computer already understand misconception related to WIn95, because it
install easy and fast. I don't know about other world reality, my
reality surrounds me, and at my reality arena Win98 doesn't work, and it
is not because what a magazine says.  I have a friend that says; "A
person who doesn't need to use eye glasses can't understand how
difficult is the world to who needs it.  Perhaps my computers have
something that is not compatible with WIn98, but the quality of the
water I taste (and drink) at my home's faucets, not at my neighbor's.
Toshiba needed to upgrade its notebooks power control software to be
compatible to Win98, ok, it just took me hours to find out why after
install a win98 at my notebook it is just went crazy and powered off
constantly, and few days more to Toshiba release the patch, but that's
ok, just another issue for misconception.  You should be correct when
you say that Win98 was done to be a win95 super-patched and fixed, but
then they included a few other little things, and that is the real
problem, isn't?

Long live to who fix problems, without creating new ones!

Wagner

1999\10\28@000837 by Andy Kunz

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>Any bug in 98 would be in 95 if it was configured in the same fashion. The
>only difference is that IE5 included pretty much completely revised common
>controls which introduced a few install problems. This is why products such
>as Office 2000 require IE5.

IE5 introduced bugs, mostly in the security department.

Yes, your 95 app will run just fine under 98.  Most of the time (there are
differences in DLL's - some just don't work under the other flavor).

It is possible to write a 98 driver which cannot operate under 95 and vice
versa.  I have several.  Fortunately, they are usually only for new
hardware, and I tend to have outdated stuff.

>a less mature product and ensuring you recieve even less support from M$.

Every feature is at least one more bug.

>at those who have these misconceptions, more those who spread them (and I'm
>not referring to Andy here, I'm referring to the magazines and web pages).

Go ahead and shoot - I've got broad shoulders <G>.  Besides, I work with
Win developers all the time.  That office has blue air.

Andy

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1999\10\28@001355 by Thomas Brandon

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May I reiterate the fact that 98 is not perfect. I'm also not saying people
who are using 95 and are perfectly happy should rush out and buy 98. I'm
just saying there's no point in getting 95 now. It's like saying the latest
revision of the Scenixs have bugs that are only just coming out so you
should just get the old version where more of the bugs are known. Great idea
in theory, but how are they going to fix the bugs in the new version if no
one uses it. Also, remember 95 will be killed off soon by M$. Win 3.1 now
costs twice as much as Win 95 to stop people buying it. Won't be long before
95 goes off the market too. Oh yeah, and your not buying the original 95
anymore, it's OSR2 always with USB support and half the stuff they had to
release a whole new version (98) to get too work, so don't know it'll be
that much better.

I use 98 at home myself, but only for games and serial port. I will be
moving to NT ASAP cause it's way ahead.

Not many people are going to be living very long if only those who can
advance without problems survive. I don't think there would be many computer
companies around if they stopped making products cause of bugs.

And just to avoid confusion, you are correct that 9x is a long way from bug
free (and it will stay that way), but I pay that price for the features that
go with it.

BTW: The power control issue would have been the switch over from the old to
the new power management standards. Laptops are often problematic (had more
problems in 95 but that's just cause I'm mostly experienced with 95 and
laptops), it's cause they are too proprietary. You really need an OEM
version OS from laptop maker or it's real bad. Very annoying. Had real bad
problems as only accessible OEM copy was on dead laptop harddisk as they
don't give CD's. Yep, laptops will often give you problems. Same deal with
Linux, I've heard of a total of one person running Linux of a laptop and
they were pretty happy with themselves at that.

Tom.
{Original Message removed}

1999\10\28@035228 by Jason Muhammad

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I bought the ORIGINAL Win95 disk ($89.95).  It cost me $56.00 in
long-distance calls to MS Technical Support.  It took them 2hours, 3
different Techs in two different parts of the country to find out what
the ORIGINAL Win95 was doing to my computer.  So when you say ORIGINAL,
it has more bugs than 95 Looney Tunes Sequals. Besides, Win98 is Win95
fixed...

WF wrote:
>
>         Where can i buy the original WIN95? (ENGLISH VERSION)
>
>         Miguel

--
Jason
========================================
Website: http://www.execpc.com/~milsumai
E-Mail:  RemoveMEmilsumaispamTakeThisOuTexecpc.com
ICQ # :  12978762
========================================
         .:::.
          ,,,
        _(- -)_
       /  ( )  \
       \_/ : \_/
        |_/ \_|
         | | |
      -TRY PRAYER-

1999\10\28@095300 by Andres Tarzia

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Andy,

Windows NT is orders of magnitude more reliable and more secure than any
Windows 9x products.
I have plenty of real, working, hands-on expertise with Windows NT and I'd
be more than glad to exchange some messages about this if you want. We can
continue off-list or, if you want, in the montanadesign list, but please,
not in the PIClist.

Thanks a lot for listening.

Regards,
Andres Tarzia
Technology Consultant, SMART S.A.
e-mail: atarziaEraseMEspam.....smart.com.ar

{Original Message removed}

1999\10\28@102616 by - KITS EDUCACIONAIS NACIONAIS

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Thanks... i got now the WIN95 with BOX,MANUAL and "CERTIFICATE"...for
U$54,00
The most important for me is the CERTIFICATE...

Miguel

{Quote hidden}

1999\10\28@131936 by Simon Redwood

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Reply To: "Simon Redwood" <RemoveMEspredwoodEraseMEspamEraseMEsri-net.demon.co.uk>
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Like Jason says at the bottom,

TRY PRAYER

or else there is therapy.
Glad you got what you wanted anyway..

{Quote hidden}

--
Regards,
Simon

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1999\10\29@100335 by Andy Kunz

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>I have plenty of real, working, hands-on expertise with Windows NT and I'd
>be more than glad to exchange some messages about this if you want. We can
>continue off-list or, if you want, in the montanadesign list, but please,
>not in the PIClist.

I will forward the M$-originated bug reports as I receive them to you,
then, if you like.  Off list, of course.

Andy

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