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'[OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C'
2000\03\16@113211 by John Pearson

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MS Visual Basic Vs. MS Visual C. Which would I be happier with. I am more
familiar with C. I want to do some control with MCUs.

Thanks
John

2000\03\16@113426 by Rob R

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VISUAL C!!! VB needs added controls that usualy cost a pretty penny to do control of io ports like serial and parrallel ports.  However if you can get your hand on the controls VB would speed u up massivly compared to C in my opinion anyway.

Rob Rivera


On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:21:02 -0800 John Pearson <spam_OUTxeroTakeThisOuTspamCMC.NET> wrote:
>MS Visual Basic Vs. MS Visual C. Which would I be happier with. I am more
>familiar with C. I want to do some control with MCUs.
>
>Thanks
>John
>

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2000\03\16@114848 by smerchock, Steve

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part 0 2259 bytes
<P><FONT SIZE=2>If anybody is interested, I have an original copy</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of Visual Basic 6.0 (Professional Edition)software</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>package for sale. Bought it, used it a little bit.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Best regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Steve</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>{Original Message removed}

2000\03\16@115050 by M. Adam Davis

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Well, if you are like me, then you want to be able to write somwhat complex
programs in very little time, and spend more time on the MCU itself.

VB has a shorter development cycle (ie, you can make a program more quickly in
general) and it suits my needs for MCU testing/control.  It does not run as fast
as a comparable C program, but it generally runs fast eneough for most things.

I have both and have used both.  Chances are both packages will do what you
need, VB just hides the innards from you (so you have to work a bit harder to
really access the hardware) while C hides nothing from you, but doesn't give you
an easy time either (sometimes errors and problems are harder to track down,
etc) Bottom line: Do what you are comfortable with.

As Rob notes, Visual basic does not include the ability to read and write
hardware ports on the computer, but you can get (for free) controls which will
do that for you.  It is more difficult to do things like interrupts in VB,
though, even with extra controls.

If you go with VB, get the professional or enterprise package, the standard
package does not come with the MSCOMM control (serial communications).  If you
don't want to go with the higher packages due to cost, then get the standard
visual C, and write your own controls.

-Adam

John Pearson wrote:
>
> MS Visual Basic Vs. MS Visual C. Which would I be happier with. I am more
> familiar with C. I want to do some control with MCUs.
>
> Thanks
> John

2000\03\16@115315 by Randy A.

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VB does seem to be easier to use however you will need the professional
version or higher in order to do any port access.  the MSCOMM control is
required and the Pro version is around $800.00 or so if I remember.  I have
it but had to upgrade from the standard version 6.0 to the Pro version and
the upgrade was around $400.00 or so.

Randy A.

2000\03\16@120556 by Randy A.

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Steve:
Wish I had known that about 8 months ago :-).  I take it you would let it go
at a bargain price?  I ended up buying mine, well the standard edition then
the upgrade at full price.  My customer insisted on the programming being
done in Visual Basic as they were going to purchase the source code after all
the bugs were worked out.

Randy A.

2000\03\16@121020 by Alan Pearce

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>As Rob notes, Visual basic does not include the ability to read and write
>hardware ports on the computer, but you can get (for free) controls which will
>do that for you.  It is more difficult to do things like interrupts in VB,
>though, even with extra controls.

Well I have been doing this with VB3 to go direct to IO ports with out any extra
controls. Does VB4/5/6 have the IO instructions removed? I understood it would
only be a problem with Windows NT where the hardware is accessed using Ring 0
code, and the user is running under Ring 3 protected code.

2000\03\16@122103 by Randy A.

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Yes,  VB 5.0 and VB 6.0 standard editions DO NOT have the controls needed.
You must purchase either the Professional or Enterprise editions to get the
MSCOMM control for serial port access.  Other wise it will be necessary to
obtain third party controls for these functions.

Does seem to be going backwards doesn't it. However MS seems to have done the
same type of thing in Windows 2000.  There are several different levels for
it and you need the more expensive versions to have most of the features you
need, or at least that is what I have been told by people that are using 2000
now.

2000\03\16@122846 by Andrew Kunz

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"Sure, Judge Penfield, we made the GUI free.  Any thing you want to do with it
is optional, so you have to pay.  But, for the convenience of our customers, we
included FREE TOOLS to allow them to connect to MSN.COM"

Andy










"Randy A." <.....Cnc002KILLspamspam@spam@AOL.COM> on 03/16/2000 12:18:27 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C








Yes,  VB 5.0 and VB 6.0 standard editions DO NOT have the controls needed.
You must purchase either the Professional or Enterprise editions to get the
MSCOMM control for serial port access.  Other wise it will be necessary to
obtain third party controls for these functions.

Does seem to be going backwards doesn't it. However MS seems to have done the
same type of thing in Windows 2000.  There are several different levels for
it and you need the more expensive versions to have most of the features you
need, or at least that is what I have been told by people that are using 2000
now.

2000\03\16@124130 by smerchock, Steve

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Full blown Professional VB 6.0 for $200.00.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>It does me no good as I will probably never use it.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Just sitting on my desk collecting dust.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Steve</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>{Original Message removed}

2000\03\16@131646 by Steven Rightnar

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Does the standard Visual C++ come with the ability to control i/o ports? Or
do you have to buy the Pro edition?

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Pearson" <EraseMExerospam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCMC.NET>
To: <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 8:21 AM
Subject: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C


| MS Visual Basic Vs. MS Visual C. Which would I be happier with. I am more
| familiar with C. I want to do some control with MCUs.
|
| Thanks
| John
|

2000\03\16@132058 by smerchock, Steve

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part 0 1966 bytes
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Steve,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From mu understanding you must have either the Pro or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Enterpri$e edition.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Steven</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>{Original Message removed}

2000\03\16@133135 by Randy A.

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For anyone that is going to get in to using Visual Basic.  You better jump on
Steve's offer because I don't think you will a better one.  Take it from one
that bought the whole thing at full retail,  this is a steal

Randy

2000\03\16@133553 by Randy A.

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In Visual Basic V6 you MUST have either the Pro or Enterprise edition and I
wouldn't be surprised if that is also true with Visual C

Randy

2000\03\16@140056 by M. Adam Davis

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Visual C has the ability to control the hardware out of the box, standard, pro
or enterprise.  The fact is that you couldn't call it a C compiler if it didn't.

The problem is that on NT and w2k you need permission from the OS to access the
hardware, which usually requires writing a VxD, whihc you can do in C.  It's
just an extra step, and permissions can sometimes be a pain.

-Adam

Steven Rightnar wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\03\16@141512 by Rob R

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Now that I think about it VB is so much faster to devlope stuff, but when direct control or access of io ports is needed I HATE VB C++ is easier I would say, instead of fiddling with MSCOMM control, and can you control the parrallel port with vb?  I have 6.0 pro edition, but i never tried any parallel port stuff can it be done?

Rob

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2000\03\16@142546 by M. Adam Davis

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You need a seperate control or DLL.  There are many free ones available, they
let you directly access the PC hardware in VB (which is what you'll need to do
to play with the parallel port).

I generally use DOS based C (turbo C++ 3.0 or GCC) for most 'set it up and test
it quickly' hardware access.  I use VB for anything needing the serial port or
internet connectivity.

-Adam

Rob R wrote:
>
> Now that I think about it VB is so much faster to devlope stuff, but when direct control or access of io ports is needed I HATE VB C++ is easier I would say, instead of fiddling with MSCOMM control, and can you control the parrallel port with vb?  I have 6.0 pro edition, but i never tried any parallel port stuff can it be done?
>
> Rob
>
> Send someone a cool Dynamitemail flashcard greeting!! And get rewarded.
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2000\03\16@143549 by Mark Newland

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When others mention "direct control" of the I/O ports, what does that actually mean.  Does this mean that I have to have to Pro version to talk to the serial port at all or just to do anything beyond the basics?

Example #1:  Want to just send out some characters to an external modem.

Example #2: Create a program to directly communicate with a palm-pilot's cradle.

"M. Adam Davis" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\03\16@145915 by Heinz Czychun

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At 10:15 AM 3/16/2000, Steven Rightnar wrote:
>Does the standard Visual C++ come with the ability to control i/o ports? Or
>do you have to buy the Pro edition?
>
MsComm comes on the CD with the book Learn Visual C++6.0 Now. It's $50 US.
The programs written with this edition are not for distribution, and the
first thing they do is put up a dialog to that effect, which must be
dismissed.

Heinz

{Quote hidden}

2000\03\16@150534 by M. Adam Davis

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You need the pro version to talk to the serial ports, or the standard version
and a 3rd party serial port control.  This goes for both of your examples.

Direct access means that you can read and write to hardware registers on the
computer.  Setting up the serial port is an example of writing to the hardware
registers.

-Adam

Mark Newland wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\03\16@155520 by Randy A.

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Rob:

Same here all I have ever done is Serial comms with the Visual Basic. Of
course with almost all MPUs and PIC serial is what you would use anyway.

Randy

2000\03\16@160348 by gacrowell

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Jan Axelxon's book "Serial Port Complete" contains examples of interfacing
Visual Basic to the serial port.  It doesn't seem to say what version of VB
it's using, but it's examples do use the MSComm control.

I don't have it, but I assume her "Parallel Port Complete" does the same for
the parallel port.

"USB Complete" is the same again for USB ports.

All can be found at http://www.lvr.com, along with lots of other information links.
I notice a link there to a freeware MSComm equivalent too.

I have purchased full price versions of VB3 in the past, and paid to upgrade
to VB4.  For VB6 I went to Ebay and got the Professional version for less
than $100.  It appears to be a legitimate, full, version in every respect.
That was perhaps six months ago.  I just glanced at some prices there and
they seem to be around $125 now.  There are always many auctions for it in
progress.

Gary Crowell
Micron Technology

2000\03\16@162149 by John Pearson

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MS Visual C++ v.6 Standard for $39.00 (after rebate). I was wondering if
this package was going to give me the io control I need. Also, can you just
code C with a C++ package? I never got the hang of C++.

----------
> From: gacrowell <TakeThisOuTgacrowellEraseMEspamspam_OUTMICRON.COM>
> To: RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C
> Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 1:02 PM
>
> Jan Axelxon's book "Serial Port Complete" contains examples of
interfacing
> Visual Basic to the serial port.  It doesn't seem to say what version of
VB
> it's using, but it's examples do use the MSComm control.
>
> I don't have it, but I assume her "Parallel Port Complete" does the same
for
> the parallel port.
>
> "USB Complete" is the same again for USB ports.
>
> All can be found at http://www.lvr.com, along with lots of other information
links.
> I notice a link there to a freeware MSComm equivalent too.
>
> I have purchased full price versions of VB3 in the past, and paid to
upgrade
> to VB4.  For VB6 I went to Ebay and got the Professional version for less
> than $100.  It appears to be a legitimate, full, version in every
respect.
> That was perhaps six months ago.  I just glanced at some prices there and
> they seem to be around $125 now.  There are always many auctions for it
in
> progress.
>
> Gary Crowell
> Micron Technology

2000\03\16@164926 by William Chops Westfield

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Surely the serial port is available to VB and VC++ programs as a file,
through the standard windows drivers?

billw

2000\03\16@165550 by Tom Handley

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  John, I've done C/C++, and VBasic on the PC. Now days I prefer VB when
using Windows. I use VB5. It is so much easier to develop an application.
For low-level access to ports, I use Jan Axelson's "inpout32.dll" which is
available from her Lakeview Research site at:

     http://www.lvr.com

  This allows low-level access to any port. If I need a custom DLL, I use
C or C++ but I rarely find it necessary. I normally do ActiveX controls
with VB5 now days though I resort to C/C++ on occasion. Note, you can still
access all the Windows API calls to speed things up and reduce the need to
distribute OCX controls.

  I've been beta testing an O-Scope control for Duane who had a recent
article in Circuit Cellar Ink dealing with an SPI interface to a LTC2400
24-Bit A/D converter. He has gone through `hell' trying to get that control
to work with Windows 98. He uses VC6... It still does not work with VB...
It's not just VB but the control will not register using REGSVR. Now he was
modifying another ActiveX control for a Strip Chart display designed in VC5
but I can feel the `pain' he has gone through with the VC6 environment...

  I absolutely *hated* VC and I went with Watcom which supported a variety
of environments. Watcom is now `dead' but very usable. Delphi is the new
version.

  Back to VB, I use it to test a variety of hardware including CPLDs and
PICs. I use to do this in C under DOS. With Jan's DLL mentioned above, it
becomes trivial to do this in VB.

  Finally, there is a `wealth' of free controls and example code for VB.
The same can be said for VC but I see more for VB.

  - Tom

PSBS: You need the Professional Enterprise Edition.

At 08:21 AM 3/16/00 -0800, John Pearson wrote:
>MS Visual Basic Vs. MS Visual C. Which would I be happier with. I am more
>familiar with C. I want to do some control with MCUs.
>
>Thanks
>John


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

2000\03\16@165753 by Severson, Rob

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If no one has mentioned it yet:

For serial port and parallel port information, including access from VB,
visit http://www.lvr.com

Jan Axelson, her books, and her website are a great resource for parallel
and serial port interfacing. Some of the "hardware control from VB" files
are at her site.

-Rob
usbsimm.home.att.net

2000\03\16@170007 by M. Adam Davis

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File access in VB is available, but frowned on.  And it won't generate
interrupts for you...

-Adam

William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
> Surely the serial port is available to VB and VC++ programs as a file,
> through the standard windows drivers?
>
> billw

2000\03\16@174400 by Bill Pierce

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<x-flowed>A small correction, Watcom is a C/C++ compiler and Delphi is Object Pascal.

Bill

{Quote hidden}

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</x-flowed>

2000\03\16@175430 by Daniel Hart

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Some merchants sell the Educational Version of MS products without really announcing it. The
difference is pretty simple: no support and no right to use for commercial development. This isn't a
problem if you don't sell your work. The requirement is you must be a student or teacher who is
going to use the software for educational purposes. Usually need to purchase through the school. Of
course you can't download upgrades and bug fixes either, but its a good way to get started.

A big difference is the IDE. I use the VC IDE to edit other C code, like HI-Tec C PIC code. It has a
lot of neat bells and whistles and is really good for complex systems spread over dozens of files.
It also integrates well with WinWord, making documentation a little easier. One cannot always write
for Windows (thank you).
Have a great day,
Dan

gacrowell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\03\16@181147 by Andrew Kelley

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:20:59 -0800 John Pearson <RemoveMExerospam_OUTspamKILLspamCMC.NET> writes:
> MS Visual C++ v.6 Standard for $39.00 (after rebate). I was wondering
> if
> this package was going to give me the io control I need. Also, can
> you just
> code C with a C++ package? I never got the hang of C++.

BY ALL MEANS YES.

I use C on a c++ compiler....It works.  It is 'backwards compatible'.(If
its ANSI of course!! =)

Andrew

{Quote hidden}

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2000\03\16@181352 by Brandon, Tom

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Serial port access can be done out of the box with any version of VB or VC.
There are Windows API calls (C Functions) to do it all. All the MSComm
control is is a nice ActiveX (VB component) that wraps up all the nasty API
calls (nasty in VB anyway) for you. This is why you use VB, cause rather
than 30 lines of low level API calls you just do 'MSComm1.Write "Hello"' or
some such.

You can do almost anything in VB (not some low level COM) it can just be
hard. Ideally you want access to both. You write nicee low level interface
components (Serial, Parallel, USB etc) in VC as ActiveX components (or buy
them or get freeware ones) and then you use them in VB. This way you don't
have to deal with nasty C++ for high level GUI work and you don't have to
deal with nasty VB for low level work. I would suggest acquiring components
would be more economical to purchasing VC as well. VB is much much easier.
For instance, I did some work on converting VB logic to VC. It was 2 pages
odd of VB code. After having some problems we got in an experienced C\C++
developer (multiple years of embedded and non-embedded C\C++ experience) in,
the 2 of us took 4 weekends of 8 hour days to debug this couple of pages
app. In the end it turned out some API's were functioning incorrectly. This
sort of thing rarely happens in VB.

Tom.

2000\03\16@214726 by Randy A.

picon face
I have Jan Axelson's books, both Parallel Complete and Serial Port Complete.
In Serial Port Complete she does let you know that you will need the
Professional version of VB6 to get MSCOMM for the serial port access.

Her other books are just as well written to by the way.  I have three of them
which include the ones previously mentioned.

2000\03\16@214928 by Randy A.

picon face
Bill:

Sorry to tell you this but it is NOT available.  You either have to create
your own objects or modules (which is not easy) or you spend the money.

I have been using VB 6.0 for almost a year now and had to upgrade when I got
into interfacing to other devices using serial communications..

Randy A.

2000\03\16@222326 by Rob R

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>Rob:
>
>Same here all I have ever done is Serial comms with the Visual Basic. Of
>course with almost all MPUs and PIC serial is what you would use anyway.
>
>Randy
>

NOT I!  I use parrallel port to program everything.  Would you happen to know, or anyone know where I could get a free DLL or control with decent help file to control parallel ports in vb5 or 6?  Also what are the compatability aspects of vb5 to 6, i assume ver 5 programs run no problem in 6.0, but will 6 files run in vb5 if no "extra's" are added, just normal control set and plain old code?

Rob Rivera

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2000\03\16@222941 by Rob R

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>MS Visual C++ v.6 Standard for $39.00 (after rebate). I was wondering if
>this package was going to give me the io control I need. Also, can you just
>code C with a C++ package? I never got the hang of C++.
>

Lets put it like this C++ is GOD'S SOFTWARE.  You can do anything you want if you know what your doing. Its just time consuming and for certain things can get very technical.  Now at one point I simply picked up  Teach Yourself C in 21 Days book, came wiht Borland C++ compiler old version, does everything io ports, EVERYTHING C++ is C++ is C++.  The book with software cost me like $40 bucks.  But i know "people" who have free coppies of MS VISUAL STUDIO.  Which contains vb6, c++ 6 and Java and the works all of them.  So those "people" are set with everything for any programming situation ; )

Rob


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2000\03\16@223856 by Rob R

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>Surely the serial port is available to VB and VC++ programs as a file,
>through the standard windows drivers?
>
>billw

If memory serves me correctly there was a way to do it through windows api under VB 3 not 5. win32api's are different and function differntly.

Rob Rivera.

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2000\03\16@224832 by Rob R

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Now, I am majoring in Electronics Engineering Tech. at in Devry, going for a BA.  They only teach C/C++ thorughout the courses and basic assembly for the MCU classes.  Is C++ really like the all out standard for business and electronic companies?  I mean i know vb inside and out, c++ i am very good at but by no means a pro, I cant do file access not off the top of my head!  I never use C/C++ very rarely, but I would feel bad if some of my class mates get out in the world rellying on their Devry  education and then get a job where they need VB and they now know nothing at all.  Just curious if any of the professionals out there know

Rob Rivera



On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:53:24 -0800 Tom Handley <RemoveMEthandleyKILLspamspamTELEPORT.COM> wrote:
>   John, I've done C/C++, and VBasic on the PC. Now days I prefer VB when
>using Windows. I use VB5. It is so much easier to develop an application.
>For low-level access to ports, I use Jan Axelson's "inpout32.dll" which is
>available from her Lakeview Research site at:
>


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2000\03\16@232240 by mike

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Regards,

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Byte This Interactive           Phone:    +61 2 9310-2157
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{Original Message removed}

2000\03\16@232830 by Will Perez

picon face
I think your best bet is to get some experience in the work world.  Maybe
you can work during the summers or part time on the weekdays.  It is
better to have this type of experience than to say to an employer that
you have developed twenty applications at school with no real practical
cost benefit purpose.  Since I have been in development for the past two
years after graduating from University of Miami in Computer Engineer,
employers want information on past projects you have worked on and what
elements were involved in getting a particular job accomplished (e.g.
deadlines, politics, unrealistic expectations, etc.)  I hope this helps.
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2000\03\17@040656 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   They only teach C/C++ thorughout the courses and basic assembly for the
   MCU classes.  Is C++ really like the all out standard for business and
   electronic companies?

No, of course not.  And if it was, it wouldn't be in 10 years, anyway.
("business companies" probably still use COBOL.)  C++ is presumably good
enough at teaching the concepts of "modern software design" that you
shouldn't have TOO much trouble programming in whatever you need to.


   I mean i know vb inside and out, c++ i am very good at but by no
   means a pro, I cant do file access not off the top of my head!

With two high level languages and at least one assembler, you should be in
good shape, especially if you've ever written any "real programs" as opposed
to course assignments...  It'd probably be useful to understand the
differences between the "object oriented" languages currently in vogue and
the procedural languages of "the last generation."  Plain C or Pascal might
be a useful addition to your portfolio.

I've hired people who "didn't program" in the language we thought they'd
end up writing.  In the end, understanding the problem is more important
than understanding the language.

BillW

2000\03\17@073228 by Alan Pearce

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>You can do almost anything in VB (not some low level COM) it can just be
>hard. Ideally you want access to both. You write nicee low level interface
>components (Serial, Parallel, USB etc) in VC as ActiveX components (or buy

Why not? Why write activex whatsits. I have been using INP and OUT to access
hardware directly in VB. You cannot get more direct than that.

2000\03\17@075811 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;You can do almost anything in VB (not some low level COM) it can just be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;hard. Ideally you want access to both. You write nicee low level interface</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;components (Serial, Parallel, USB etc) in VC as ActiveX components (or buy</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Why not? Why write activex whatsits. I have been using INP and OUT to access</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">hardware directly in VB. You cannot get more direct than that.</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">There is no inbuilt INP and OUT from VB3 onwards that I'm aware of.&nbsp; There are loads of DLL's that give you this functionality though, and there is even a freeware driver for '95 and NT that uses a proper VXD and a kernel mode driver respectively.&nbsp; Grab it at<U> <A HREF="ftp://ftp.keithley.com/pub/metrabyte/unsupport/port95nt.exe" TARGET="_blank">ftp://ftp.keithley.com/pub/metrabyte/unsupport/port95nt.exe</A></U></FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">As far as C++ goes, I've tried MS VC and Borland and neither support INP or OUT if you are targetting a 32 bit platform. i.e. '95 or NT.&nbsp; You can get around this for use in '95 by using inline assembly.&nbsp; This won't however work for NT.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I personally think VB is hard to beat in many respects.&nbsp; Yes, it produces bloated executables that require run-time DLL's, and it isn't as fast as C++ for many things, but for many situations the speed of development and the unparalleled debugging ability outweigh this points.&nbsp; The ability to stop your code at the break point, change some variables and then move the execution point back up the code to try the new values is fantastic for debugging.&nbsp; I use VB for automating testing using GPIB instruments and there's little to beat it in this field.&nbsp; Some low level operations are a pain, such as rotates or shifts, and require far more code than they should, but it is acheivable with a little thought.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I believe there is a VB-like language for linux either in development or on the market...any Linux gurus know more about this?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Cheers</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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2000\03\17@090727 by Randy A.

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Rob:

VB5 and VB6 are pretty much completely compatable.  I would say that MS just
put in some extra stuff for the VB6.  However since I have not used 5 I can't
tell you the specifics.  I have, however, used quite a few projects and
modules written in 5 and they they worked flawlessly in 6.  I take it that
what you want to do is be able to send your program via the parallel port to
the PIC programmer.  I also do that however for the day to day comms with the
PIC and/or Stamp I use serial as it has always been more than adequate for my
use.

Randy A.

2000\03\17@090908 by Randy A.

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Rob:

I meant to tell you to try http://www.lvr.com.  Jan Axelson's website.   I would say
that she is the authority on using VB with both parallel and serial ports.

Randy A.

2000\03\17@091121 by Randy A.

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Yes Rob,  VB 3 seemed to include pretty much everything you needed.

2000\03\17@091743 by Randy A.

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Alan:

What version of VB are you using, it must be an old one if you and use INP
and OUT to access serial or paralles ports.

Randy

2000\03\17@095303 by Alan Pearce

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I'm using VB3 as the system is running on Windows For workgroups (i.e. W3.11).
It is also because what I am doing is a rehash of a previous design. As the
Irishman says "if you want to get there do not start from here"!

2000\03\17@114950 by Bill Pierce

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<x-flowed>Visual C now has the ability to modify variables and code and continue
debugging (Version 6). It really works well most of the time until you
change something drastic.
I use VB for web site stuff but most of the internals are implemented in
Active X controls using VC for speed and flexibility. I also have some
functionality that needs to be massively multithreaded and VB just doesn't
play very well with multiple threads.

Bill

>From: Michael Rigby-Jones <spamBeGonemrjonesSTOPspamspamEraseMENORTELNETWORKS.COM>
>Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C
>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:56:12 -0000
>
>
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2000\03\17@152334 by Rob R

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Well of course i know its better to have experience, etc.  I have my own small company where we do a real lot of programming so I have experience dealing with people and programming in a real world environment.  I have never, not yet anyway written a program for school or a school class, (well i took a c++ class from polytechnic in ny during highschool), because I am majoring in electrical engineering not computer or software engineering.  However this semestor I had to take c++ because they wouldnt transfer my c++ credits from polytech.
 I know several languages fully, c++ i know but never bothered to get seriously into it because in my own company we mainly stick with vb and use c if we really have to, and assembly for the chips.  I just thought maybe there was a reason for the schools all C++ stuff.  All my electronics books from the school all have references to c/c++.  But thanks!

Rob Rivera

On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:05:20 PST William Chops Westfield <@spam@billw@spam@spamspam_OUTCISCO.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Send someone a cool Dynamitemail flashcard greeting!! And get rewarded.
GO AHEAD! http://cards.dynamitemail.com/index.php3?rid=fc-41

2000\03\18@052536 by Tom Handley

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At 02:41 PM 3/16/00 PST, Bill Pierce wrote:
>A small correction, Watcom is a C/C++ compiler and Delphi is Object Pascal.
>
>Bill
>
>>From: Tom Handley <spamBeGonethandleyspamKILLspamTELEPORT.COM>
>>Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>>To: TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C
>>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:53:24 -0800
>>
>>    I absolutely *hated* VC and I went with Watcom which supported a
>>variety
>>of environments. Watcom is now `dead' but very usable. Delphi is the new
>>version.

  Bill, thanks for the correction. I had thought Delphi was an updated C/C++
package with more GUI tools than the Watcom package.

  - Tom


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

2000\03\19@204415 by Brandon, Tom

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It's much much slower than VC for one. Newer VB has nice native code
compilation meaning compiled code is somethinglike 75% the speed of native
C++ code. But this only really applies to COM code. For Windows API's
there's a lot of extra wrapping needed in VB that's not needed in C. In COM,
you need the wrappers regardless so it's not such a big hit.

Yeah, you CAN do it all in VB but why continually write 4x as much code in
VB that runs at about 1\8th of the speed when you can reuse nice fast
efficient C (or for that matter VB) code and save lots of time. Reuse,
Reuse, Reuse the 3 R's of modern programming.

Tom.

{Original Message removed}

2000\03\20@022907 by Mark Newland

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I fully agree with you when you are in a position to re-use your code.  That is
why I try to write most of my pic code into subroutines that I can re-use.  That
is why I still use assembly.  However, I try not to write code on the PC side
and do so only when I have to.  For that reason almost none of my code is ever
re-used and what little code I do write has no requirements for speed.  VB is
better for me cause it takes less time to get the job done and I can spend more
time on the bench blowing up my PCB's.

However, I have been in situations where C was the better choice. This year has
not one of them.

"Brandon, Tom" wrote:

> Yeah, you CAN do it all in VB but why continually write 4x as much code in
> VB that runs at about 1\8th of the speed when you can reuse nice fast
> efficient C (or for that matter VB) code and save lots of time. Reuse,
> Reuse, Reuse the 3 R's of modern programming.

2000\03\20@024148 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Bill</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The next release of VB promises a lot of interesting improvements, full OOP, inheritance, funtion overloading, polymorphism etc.&nbsp; There's some good info on the MS web site if you can find it (lost the bookmark somehow).&nbsp; No doubt it'll still be bloated and slow :o)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;From: Michael Rigby-Jones &lt;TakeThisOuTmrjonesKILLspamspamspamNORTELNETWORKS.COM&gt;</FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list &lt;.....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU&gt;</FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;To: RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Basic Vs. Visual C</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:56:12 -0000</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt; &gt; {Original Message removed}

2000\03\20@164843 by Bill Pierce

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<x-flowed>Well I guess I should have said variables and CODE and continue debugging.
Visual C also allows you to change the point of execution by right clicking
and pointing to "Set Current Location". Very much like VB.

Bill

{Quote hidden}

> > > > {Original Message removed}

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