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'[OT] Transmission tower noise'
2006\09\05@234655 by Jinx

face picon face
A friend has been giving me grief for some few weeks about
noise she says is coming from a microwave tower about 300m
from her home and keeping her awake in the quiet of the night.
She describes the sound as a constant high-pitched tone. I have
every reason to believe she is not crazy, and she assures me she
has not got tinnitus or any other hearing problems. She may be
dwelling on the problem (though she says she isn't), which might
tend to aggravate any auto-suggestion. I'm getting all this from a
woman who is quite frazzled and cranky after many sleepless night
but who hasn't lost the plot. She's still quite rational about possible
causes, but not being technical at all she has a limited number of
causes to think about. There aren't many houses around where this
tower was put up so she hasn't neighbours to discuss it with

She reckons she's being fobbed off or stonewalled by the owner
of the tower (BCL) and the local council and as she doesn't seem
to be getting anywhere on her own I've offered to try and gather
evidence. Including, if I have to, trying to record the noise to
present to someone as hard evidence. What she has so far are
just opinion and supposition.

I haven't heard the noise myself, she's quite some distance away
and a visit hasn't been possible yet. She said a tech, ISTR, had
suggested (I don't know the circumstances or context of the
conversation) it was 15kHz, which made me think perhaps a
switch-mode with something loose, but the tone she sung over the
phone is nowhere near 15kHz. Probably more like 3/4 the way up
a piano, definitely within almost everyone's hearing range, which
you'd think would be easily heard by anyone. A late-shift engineer
came to her home and thought he kind of heard something, but
seems not in the "my god, how do you sleep with that racket ?"
league or a problem would have been immediately apparent

If the tower is in fact putting out this mysterious tone, I wonder
about a couple of things

(1) Apparently the sound is no louder at the tower. I would have
thought it would be, given the sqrt law unless -

(2) there is some beat frequency being created at her home by
two or more inaudible frequencies, and she just happens to lucky
enough to be at a place where a combination of beat frequency
and distance make a node

Any thoughts ? Any similar experiences ?

2006\09\05@235815 by Zik Saleeba

face picon face
A few years ago I used to work beside someone whose old CRT monitor
had a very noisy flyback transformer. The 15kHz noise drove me
absolutely nuts yet no-one else seemed to be able to hear it. I was
always turning the sqealing thing off when she wasn't around.

I haven't had any problems like this for a couple of years. I'd like
to think it's because most monitors are LCD these days, but more
likely as I've got older my hearing doesn't stretch to 15kHz any more.

Cheers,
Zik

On 9/6/06, Jinx <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\06@000445 by Vasile Surducan

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On 9/6/06, Jinx <.....joecolquittKILLspamspam@spam@clear.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You need a spectrum analyzer and a large band antenna.
Perform a check first in her room. If you found energy levels bigger
than -30dBm or so, it's possible that your friend has a sensitive
detection problem (possible a teeth problem). I know stories in which
the person received the radio program in his head . Almost mad he
finally visit his stomatologist and the problem was solved by a simple
replacement of the material from his damaged tooth.

Vasile

2006\09\06@001713 by Jinx

face picon face

> A few years ago I used to work beside someone whose old
> CRT monitor had a very noisy flyback transformer

I had a TV like that. At some places in the room the whine
was very noticeable, at other places hardly audible, which
is what makes me wonder if there's some nodal to component
to this noise

2006\09\06@001858 by Jinx

face picon face
> it's possible that your friend has a sensitive detection problem
> (possible a teeth problem)

Thanks Vasile, I'll mention that to her. She's open to any and
all suggestions

2006\09\06@002106 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
There have been cases which seem to be legitimate of people
demodulating RF in their bodies.

It is commonly reported that incoming meteorites are sometimes "heard"
by some people. (Is that indefinite enough :-) ). If this is not a
psychological generation of apparent audio by visual stimulus then it
*must* be caused by perception of RF signals as the sound path from
the events in the very high atmosphere, if there was one, would take
vastly longer than the viewing time.

       Russell


>A friend has been giving me grief for some few weeks about
> noise she says is coming from a microwave tower about 300m
> from her home and keeping her awake in the quiet of the night.


2006\09\06@002106 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> You need a spectrum analyzer and a large band antenna.
> Perform a check first in her room. If you found energy levels bigger
> than -30dBm or so, it's possible that your friend has a sensitive
> detection problem (possible a teeth problem). I know stories in
> which
> the person received the radio program in his head . Almost mad he
> finally visit his stomatologist and the problem was solved by a
> simple
> replacement of the material from his damaged tooth.

I can lend you a spectrum analyser of sorts if you get that far.


       Russell

2006\09\06@002307 by Mike Singer

picon face
Jinx  wrote:
> A friend has been giving me grief for some
> few weeks about noise she says is coming
> from a microwave tower about 300m from
> her home

I'm sure she is not able to determine the direction of the ultrasound,
until, of course, she is a bat.
I am not about getting into  RF version here.

Most probably the sound is emitting inside her house.
It could be some old swollen battery or accumulator (say, from
cellphone) emitting air through the micro-hole or something similar.
It's hard but still possible to locate the aprox place in the room
where sound is at max amplitude on average.  Here she is to seek the
little screaming creature.

Regards,
MS

2006\09\06@003527 by Cris Wilson

flavicon
face


> (1) Apparently the sound is no louder at the tower. I would have
> thought it would be, given the sqrt law unless -
>
> (2) there is some beat frequency being created at her home by
> two or more inaudible frequencies, and she just happens to lucky
> enough to be at a place where a combination of beat frequency
> and distance make a node
>
> Any thoughts ? Any similar experiences ?

I've seen two cases close to this one.
The first was finally tracked down to a bad power transformer
across the street from me. It finally blew up and they replaced
it and the obnoxious whining that apparently only I could hear
went away.

The second involved a crystal vase that would start "humming" at
precisely the same time every night (2:13am) when a freight train
was passing about 7 miles away. I could barely hear the train, but
that **** vase would wake me up every night. I tried moving the vase
around in the house and setting it on different types of material to
dampen the humming, but it just wouldn't go away. I finally took a
baseball bat to the vase - my wife was pretty mad, but at least it
never woke me up again.

I've heard of people complaining about noises that only "they can
hear" and it finally being tracked down to monitors, TVs, fluorescent
light ballasts, air conditioner compressor bearings, and attic vent
fan bearings. Tracking the noise down just took persistence.

Good luck
--
Cris Wilson
Information Resource Consultant
College of Architecture, Arts, and Humanities
Clemson University
crisspamKILLspamclemson.edu



2006\09\06@003538 by Zik Saleeba

face picon face
Get her to switch off the power to her house and see if the sound
disappears. It's a quick test and will quickly narrow it down to "us"
or "them".

Cheers,
Zik

On 9/6/06, Mike Singer <.....znatokKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\06@004624 by David VanHorn

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>
>
> It is commonly reported that incoming meteorites are sometimes "heard"
> by some people. (Is that indefinite enough :-) ). If this is not a
> psychological generation of apparent audio by visual stimulus then it
> *must* be caused by perception of RF signals as the sound path from
> the events in the very high atmosphere, if there was one, would take
> vastly longer than the viewing time.



I can speak to that.

Two friends and I were crossing the bridge in iroquois point, Oahu, Hawaii,
at about 9 or 10 PM.
It was completely dark, and we all three heard a noise we couldn't identify,
and were looking around, for about a second, then a bolide appeared,
crossing from east of us to north of us.
The light was bright enough to cast a shadow, a bright green.  The noise was
sort of a sizzling, not loud.

We went to the seismic observatory in Ewa Beach as soon as we could, maybe
30 mins on bike, but they did not register any impact.  We didn't see it
come down, and concluded that it either burned up, or skipped back out of
the atmosphere.

Interestingly, there were no reports in the paper, and apparently few others
noticed it.

2006\09\06@005623 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 9/6/06, David VanHorn <EraseMEdvanhornspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmicrobrix.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Pull up google earth, and go to 21 deg 19' 25.36N  and 157 deg, 58'
37.57Wand you'll see where we were.  Elevation about 40 degrees,
started to the
east of us, and ended near north, and maybe 30 degrees elevation.

2006\09\06@010215 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
Are you sure the sound is continuous - sometimes what people convey in
their description isn't what they intend to. (eg "Makes a high pitched
noise all the time" may mean eg "... in a burst every 5 minutes
without fail."

If it's an occasional chirp, try looking for a smoke alarm with a low
battery. It really does happen that people fail to realise what makes
this noise.


       Russell

2006\09\06@032518 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Get her to switch off the power to her house and see if the sound
> disappears. It's a quick test and will quickly narrow it down to
> "us"
> or "them".

As long as it's mains powered, and not something like my (failing)
battery smoke alarm.



       Russell




2006\09\06@040231 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>A few years ago I used to work beside someone whose old CRT
>monitor had a very noisy flyback transformer. The 15kHz noise
>drove me absolutely nuts yet no-one else seemed to be able
>to hear it. I was always turning the sqealing thing off when
>she wasn't around.

That typically happens when a component has "sorta failed" and the output
stage waveform isn't exactly what it should be.

>I haven't had any problems like this for a couple of years.
>I'd like to think it's because most monitors are LCD these
>days, but more likely as I've got older my hearing doesn't
>stretch to 15kHz any more.

We have an LCD monitor around here that does it.

The problem with this sort of noise seems to be components in a flyback
stage which either have a combined component tolerance across the whole item
which makes the operating waveform non-optimal, or a component fails in a
manner which allows the circuit to still operate, but again the operating
waveform is non-optimal, but not badly enough out of spec to cause major
failure of other components. Almost anything that does high voltage
conversion seems to be susceptible to this - CRT output stages, LCD
backlight units and switchmode power supplies all seem to be capable of
doing it.


But Jinxs' original problem (or more correctly his friends problem) could be
caused by bolt corrosion on the tower rectifying RF, and producing either an
audio sound, or having a high enough voltage across the corrosion to have an
arc, although I suspect the latter would require such an RF field that any
person in the vicinity would have a distinctly warm feeling all over.
Another alternative may be metal joints within her house (- does it have a
galvanised iron roof?) doing the same thing. I have heard of bed springs
rectifying signals from AM radio stations, as well as metal tooth fillings
causing problems when cracked. The last one should be easily verifiable by
going to another place with high RF fields - get her to visit you Jinx and
go for a drive along scenic drive through the ranges behind you, past
another BCL tower ;).

And finally, it is not something silly like the noise of the wind blowing
through the tower (any nearby trees cut down recently to allow this to
happen)? I doubt this, as I get the impression the noise is constant, and
this would vary according to wind speed. It would also be lower frequency
than suggested, but still worth a consideration, ad be eliminated as a
source.


Another possibility - is it really coming from the tower? It could be coming
from the fuse board, and be due to a ground fault condition, causing ground
currents from neighbouring consumers to come down the neutral and then to
ground through her fuse board. Especially if there is a 3 phase consumer
nearby (I get the impression she is in the country, so a neighbouring farm
may well have 3 phase for a milking shed or other plant) and that can create
a 600Hz buzz which could sound like she suggests. It could even be the power
to the transmitter site itself, that would almost certainly be 3 phase, and
could well be higher than the 230V, which might mean arcing on the
insulators in wet weather ... you lot have been having an inordinate amount
of floods etc recently.

2006\09\06@060029 by Jinx

face picon face
> Get her to switch off the power to her house and see if the
> sound disappears. It's a quick test and will quickly narrow
> it down to "us" or "them"

She tried that quite early on, and it made no difference

> But Jinxs' original problem (or more correctly his friends
> problem) could be caused by bolt corrosion on the tower

The tower has been there for just a few months, so that's
unlikely, but not impossible. That it is a recent structure and
she had no problems before is another reason I think she's on
to something. We just have to figure out what the "something"
is

> Another alternative may be metal joints within her house (- does
> it have a galvanised iron roof?) doing the same thing

Will ask

> I have heard of bed springs rectifying signals from AM radio
> stations

And here's me buying a tuner like a sucker

> as well as metal tooth fillings causing problems when cracked

She has had dental work recently, notably having almagam
fillings removed and replaced with composite

> The last one should be easily verifiable by going to another
> place with high RF fields - get her to visit you Jinx and go for
> a drive along scenic drive through the ranges behind you, past
> another BCL tower ;)

> Another possibility - is it really coming from the tower?

Two suggestions I put to her. This list has really honed my
investigative process. Assume nothing about what the complainant
"says" it is

I asked her if she experienced this around any other tower, and
lord knows there are plenty of them. She said no, and will try it.
Whether I get a love-struck ride with an attractive single blonde
(-ish) Swede is something I was working on anyway ;-)

> It could be coming from the fuse board, and be due to a ground
> fault condition, causing ground currents from neighbouring
> consumers to come down the neutral and then to

I thought of perhaps buried cables, could be power or data, or
even someone in the area (she's not completely remote) who may
leave a faulty monitor on at night

One suggestion I gave her was to look at some sort of Faraday
cage. Some quick way of isolating herself from the RF to see if
that is what is really causing the problem. We discussed what
might be a suitable experiment, and came up with a grounded
panel van and aluminium foil. Whether this will be practical, I
don't know, but she's at straw-clutching stage. Was careful to
stay away from tin-foil hats and the wearers thereof, but if she
got a good night's sleep I actually think she might up for it

2006\09\06@062033 by Gus S Calabrese

face picon face
^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear plugs and
some wrap around headgear.

If the sound does not attenuate, it is in her head. ( Physically or  
psychologically )

How far away from the antenna must she get to lose the audio ?
AGSC^

On 2006-Sep 05, at 21:46hrs PM, Jinx wrote:

A friend has been giving me grief for some few weeks about
noise she says is coming from a microwave tower about 300m
from her home and keeping her awake in the quiet of the night.
She describes the sound as a constant high-pitched tone. I have
every reason to believe she is not crazy, and she assures me she
has not got tinnitus or any other hearing problems. She may be
dwelling on the problem (though she says she isn't), which might
tend to aggravate any auto-suggestion. I'm getting all this from a
woman who is quite frazzled and cranky after many sleepless night
but who hasn't lost the plot. She's still quite rational about possible
causes, but not being technical at all she has a limited number of
causes to think about. There aren't many houses around where this
tower was put up so she hasn't neighbours to discuss it with

She reckons she's being fobbed off or stonewalled by the owner
of the tower (BCL) and the local council and as she doesn't seem
to be getting anywhere on her own I've offered to try and gather
evidence. Including, if I have to, trying to record the noise to
present to someone as hard evidence. What she has so far are
just opinion and supposition.

I haven't heard the noise myself, she's quite some distance away
and a visit hasn't been possible yet. She said a tech, ISTR, had
suggested (I don't know the circumstances or context of the
conversation) it was 15kHz, which made me think perhaps a
switch-mode with something loose, but the tone she sung over the
phone is nowhere near 15kHz. Probably more like 3/4 the way up
a piano, definitely within almost everyone's hearing range, which
you'd think would be easily heard by anyone. A late-shift engineer
came to her home and thought he kind of heard something, but
seems not in the "my god, how do you sleep with that racket ?"
league or a problem would have been immediately apparent

If the tower is in fact putting out this mysterious tone, I wonder
about a couple of things

(1) Apparently the sound is no louder at the tower. I would have
thought it would be, given the sqrt law unless -

(2) there is some beat frequency being created at her home by
two or more inaudible frequencies, and she just happens to lucky
enough to be at a place where a combination of beat frequency
and distance make a node

Any thoughts ? Any similar experiences ?

2006\09\06@063837 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> It could be coming from the fuse board, and be due to a ground
>> fault condition, causing ground currents from neighbouring
>> consumers to come down the neutral and then to
>
>I thought of perhaps buried cables, could be power or data, or
>even someone in the area (she's not completely remote) who may
>leave a faulty monitor on at night

The reason I mentioned this one was an experience my parents had, where the
power pole supplying them and a neighbour was mounted on a bank outside the
houses, and as the bank slumped the neighbours power cable stretched, and in
due course the neutral broke, but the phase was still connected. My father
had been wondering why his distribution box made all sorts of buzzing
noises, and presumably a heap of other neighbours had the same problem,
probably without realising it, as this neighbours return current made its
way through the multiple earth returns back to the power supply.

Eventually the pole leant far enough for the phase to break (with a shower
of sparks, I remember seeing it happen), and after the power board repaired
the connection the noises from our distribution box went away.

2006\09\06@064754 by Jinx

face picon face
> ^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
> of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear
> plugs and some wrap around headgear

She has tried earplugs + earmuffs, no joy

Also, most people will find that you get used to a constant noise. She's
tried music and white noise (one of those "subliminal message" ***
tapes with the waves and the seagulls") to try and block it out

Unfortunately that wasn't a complete success because the only tape
she could find was a New Agey one with a choir and other
distractions. I could make a white noise CD or mp3 though, that
hadn't occurred to me until now

> How far away from the antenna must she get to lose the audio ?

Good question. Don't know. Poor answer

Having another chat with her tomorrow

*** not the "You will hear an irritating and inescapable tone" one ;-)

2006\09\06@070231 by Gus S Calabrese

face picon face
^ If ear protection does not work, it must be in her head.
Explain how that cannot be so.  High pitched audio is
blocked by ear protection.
AGSC ^

On 2006-Sep 06, at 04:47hrs AM, Jinx wrote:

> ^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
> of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear
> plugs and some wrap around headgear

She has tried earplugs + earmuffs, no joy

Also, most people will find that you get used to a constant noise. She's
tried music and white noise (one of those "subliminal message" ***
tapes with the waves and the seagulls") to try and block it out

Unfortunately that wasn't a complete success because the only tape
she could find was a New Agey one with a choir and other
distractions. I could make a white noise CD or mp3 though, that
hadn't occurred to me until now

> How far away from the antenna must she get to lose the audio ?

Good question. Don't know. Poor answer

Having another chat with her tomorrow

*** not the "You will hear an irritating and inescapable tone" one ;-)

-

2006\09\06@073005 by Jinx

face picon face
> ^ If ear protection does not work, it must be in her head.
> Explain how that cannot be so.  High pitched audio is
> blocked by ear protection.

Yes, exactly, I've explained to her that treble noise is quite
easily attenuated, so that seems to have been at least partly
ruled out, although she is adamant she can hear "something".
I'm just as curious and eager as she is to get to the bottom
of it because it's causing her some distress

2006\09\06@073131 by Lee Jones

flavicon
face
> Are you sure the sound is continuous
>
> If it's an occasional chirp, try looking for a smoke alarm
> with a low battery

About six months ago, my son found a long standing "fan noise".
For quite a while, I had heard a faint "cooling fan going bad"
noise coming from a collection of disk drives.  It was loudest
in the doorway but I was never able to track it to a specific
fan.  I thought I'd find it when it got worse.

Turns out my wife's exercise bicycle (between doorway & disks)
has an LCD module.  It makes a really faint bad fan noise -- for
a long time -- if the batteries are at mid-power levels.  Module
appears fine & works normally.  When the batteries do finally
start to fail, the module makes a normal "dead battery" loud
chirpy noise that's easy to find.

When we took the batteries out of the bike's LCD module, I found
that the faint bad fan noise was gone.

As someone else said, sometimes it just take persistence (& luck).

                                               Lee Jones

2006\09\06@074051 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
Jinx <joecolquittspamspam_OUTclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> ^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
>> of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear
>> plugs and some wrap around headgear
>
> She has tried earplugs + earmuffs, no joy
>

Hypertension?
May be her blood pressure is fooling she.
Many people get confused about high-pitched sounds.
They came from the hearing system itself and paranoia makes the sound come
from the tower. Tell her to try to sleep in a very quiet and far away place,
for a few days.


(physician-audiometry-therapy)

Dennis




2006\09\06@081741 by Jinx

face picon face

> Hypertension?
> May be her blood pressure is fooling she.
> Many people get confused about high-pitched sounds

I'm reluctant to suggest again to her that it's "all in the mind"
or has an indirect physical cause. For one thing I don't want
to jeopardise the friendship and a possible future business
partnership by asking something that's already been answered.
The other thing too is that I don't want my face splattered with
an indignant "I told you so" if it does prove to be a technical
cause

2006\09\06@082717 by Ling SM

picon face
>>>^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
>>>of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear
>>>plugs and some wrap around headgear
>>
>>She has tried earplugs + earmuffs, no joy
>>
>
>
> Hypertension?
> May be her blood pressure is fooling she.
> Many people get confused about high-pitched sounds.
> They came from the hearing system itself and paranoia makes the sound come
> from the tower. Tell her to try to sleep in a very quiet and far away place,
> for a few days.
>
If that is so, she can try to see Chinese physician.  There are several
type to massages to treat different type of ringings in the ear.

Ling SM

2006\09\06@085224 by John Ferrell

face picon face
Google "Taos Hum". It might be related.

The hypothesis that I have reached is that the noise does not exist at its
perceived frequency. Rather, it is similar to "intermodulation" in a radio
receiver... the product of mixing two or more signals.

It is very real to those who hear it but totally undetectable to those who
cannot.

There is a local condition here that some find annoying and others cannot
detect it. It is neither constant or the same intensity in the affected
area. I cannot hear it but it has been described as similar to the sound
made by the Star Wars Light Sabers.

Since we have been in the low sunspot activity, I have not been made aware
of the condition. Of course one must consider that inquiring about such
things does raise a few eyebrows.

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"My Competition is not my enemy"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2006\09\06@091825 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
Jinx <@spam@joecolquittKILLspamspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> Hypertension?
>> May be her blood pressure is fooling she.
>> Many people get confused about high-pitched sounds
>
> I'm reluctant to suggest again to her that it's "all in the mind"
> or has an indirect physical cause. For one thing I don't want
> to jeopardise the friendship and a possible future business
> partnership by asking something that's already been answered.
> The other thing too is that I don't want my face splattered with
> an indignant "I told you so" if it does prove to be a technical
> cause

Work the problem.
It is more simple to discard by simple tests her hearing system and blood
pressure failures than make 433Mhz notch filter to be applied in her molars
or frontal lobe.
Besides, you can be the one who makes the Ling SM massages. :)

More serious:
She is the only good "receptor" you have.
Block the receptor.
Make a Faraday jail if it is RF. Ground her house.
Make a reject audio frequencies helmet.
Quantifies all.





2006\09\06@094426 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
Very serious suggestion - has tinnitus been eliminated?
Very real.
Can be very disturbing. Level can vary markedly.
Worst case examples have driven people to suicide but this is very
rare.

My wife has it constantly. I get it on occasions - not usually very
badly. In my case I suspect a mild infection may be a trigger.
If treated at initial onset in some cases it can be prevented from
becoming permanent. Once well established you have it for life.


       Russell

2006\09\06@094538 by William Couture

face picon face
On 9/6/06, Dennis Crawley <KILLspamdennis.crawleyKILLspamspamusa.net> wrote:
> Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> >> ^If it is high pitched then it can be attenuated by a good set
> >> of ear protection.  Preferably a combination of expanding ear
> >> plugs and some wrap around headgear
> >
> > She has tried earplugs + earmuffs, no joy
> >
>
> Hypertension?
> May be her blood pressure is fooling she.
> Many people get confused about high-pitched sounds.
> They came from the hearing system itself and paranoia makes the sound come
> from the tower. Tell her to try to sleep in a very quiet and far away place,
> for a few days.

Caffine, such as in chocolate and coffee, can also cause ringing in the ears.

Bill
--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2006\09\06@095756 by Marcel Duchamp

picon face
Jinx wrote:
>
> Any thoughts ? Any similar experiences ?
>

Post some photos of her here, all the better for us to examine the
situation more closely.

2006\09\06@101539 by Robert Rolf

picon face
How about K.I.S.S.?
Earplugs or industrial noise suppression ear muffs at night.
Cheap to try and see if the sound is external to her head.
e.g. RF vs acoustic.


Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2006\09\06@102303 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> My wife has it constantly. I get it on occasions - not usually very
> badly. In my case I suspect a mild infection may be a trigger.
> If treated at initial onset in some cases it can be prevented from
> becoming permanent. Once well established you have it for life.



Yup.. I've got that.  A high pitched hissy noise that's with me 24/7.

I also get (and have since I can remember) individual high pitched noises
that will last for maybe 15 seconds, starting fairly loud, then tapering to
nothing.

2006\09\06@103437 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Russell,

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:19:08 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:

> There have been cases which seem to be legitimate of people
> demodulating RF in their bodies.

And it could be resonating in her skull - in which case nobody else will hear it unless they are in head-to-head contact.

> It is commonly reported that incoming meteorites are sometimes "heard"
> by some people. (Is that indefinite enough :-) ). If this is not a
> psychological generation of apparent audio by visual stimulus then it
> *must* be caused by perception of RF signals as the sound path from
> the events in the very high atmosphere, if there was one, would take
> vastly longer than the viewing time.

I have heard this myself - a sort-of "Whoosh" noise as a meteor passes over.  A bit like the noise a firework rocket makes as it ascends, but the
sound doesn't seem to travel across the sky with the meteor, and there's no doppler effect - it's just "there", for about half a second.  It doesn't
always happen, but it certainly *does* happen!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\06@104741 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Jinx,

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:30:00 +1200, Jinx wrote:

> > ^ If ear protection does not work, it must be in her head.
> > Explain how that cannot be so.  High pitched audio is
> > blocked by ear protection.
>
> Yes, exactly, I've explained to her that treble noise is quite
> easily attenuated, so that seems to have been at least partly
> ruled out, although she is adamant she can hear "something".
> I'm just as curious and eager as she is to get to the bottom
> of it because it's causing her some distress

Are you/she certain it's not tinnitus?  Does it stop when she's away from home?  If yes/yes, then it must be a resonance in her head.  Break out the
tinfoil hat!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\06@110040 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> Very serious suggestion - has tinnitus been eliminated?
> Very real.
> Can be very disturbing. Level can vary markedly.
> Worst case examples have driven people to suicide but this is very
> rare.
>
> My wife has it constantly. I get it on occasions - not usually very
> badly. In my case I suspect a mild infection may be a trigger.
> If treated at initial onset in some cases it can be prevented from
> becoming permanent. Once well established you have it for life.
>
>
>         Russell
>
>  
We have mountains around here (so AZ) that jut into the sky at 7000',
and are frequently the
targets of climbers. A few have said that up there, in the stillness of
the top, that some hear a
constant humming sound, similar to the TAOS HUM (gargoyle it for info).

My ears are fading with age and a high level of meanness, so I can't
hear anything. Not even my
wife.

--Bob

2006\09\06@111236 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jinx wrote:

>> How far away from the antenna must she get to lose the audio ?
>
> Good question. Don't know. Poor answer

Another question... Only inside the house, or also around the house?
Blindfold her or have her close the eyes to make her focus on the ears
(blindfolding is better) and walk her around, trying to get some idea of
when it gets stronger and when it gets weaker.

Maybe a good microphone and an audio spectrum analyzer help?

Gerhard

2006\09\06@114240 by Ling SM

picon face
>>My wife has it constantly. I get it on occasions - not usually very
>>badly. In my case I suspect a mild infection may be a trigger.
>>If treated at initial onset in some cases it can be prevented from
>>becoming permanent. Once well established you have it for life.
>
>
>
>
> Yup.. I've got that.  A high pitched hissy noise that's with me 24/7.
>
> I also get (and have since I can remember) individual high pitched noises
> that will last for maybe 15 seconds, starting fairly loud, then tapering to
> nothing.

According to a medical show on Chinese medicine here that was run 2 -3
year back, most of the causes of the ringing in the ear are not in the
head nor in the ear.  Noise in the ear is the result as the ear is an
organ sensitive enough to pickup the imbalance (EE term = oscillation).
 They originate from weak organ - kidney and region around there.  They
can be cured or improved through routine massages and heat treatment on
the body.

I am no Chinese physician, so don't take my words seriously.

Ling SM

2006\09\06@120440 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> We have mountains around here (so AZ) that jut into the sky at
> 7000',
> and are frequently the
> targets of climbers. A few have said that up there, in the stillness
> of
> the top, that some hear a
> constant humming sound, similar to the TAOS HUM (gargoyle it for
> info).


Taos Hum home page (of course)
Vast amounts of info plus links to related (and unrelated) sites

       http://amasci.com/hum/hum1.html

Good commentary
Gets a bit 'waffly' but covers the subject

       http://www.crystalinks.com/taoshum.html

Brief but useful

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taos_Hum

Ho Hum !!!

       http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=taos+hum&meta=



I've met the super double sized with fries version of this.
Take two diesel locomotives
At 5am ish on a winter morning place both in an engine shed and start
their motors.
Set governors of each to exactly the same engine revs.
Natural differences will cause a beat frequency between the two
engines.
Engine shed will sum air pressure waves and produce a high amplitude
somewhat subsonic signal.
Whump a Whump a Whump a .....
You just TRY and sleep through that when you live perhaps 100 yards
away :-)
We learned to after a while.


       Russell








2006\09\06@121956 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Set governors of each to exactly the same engine revs.
>Natural differences will cause a beat frequency between
>the two engines.
>Engine shed will sum air pressure waves and produce a
>high amplitude somewhat subsonic signal.
>Whump a Whump a Whump a .....

I have experienced something similar during the day with a single engine. It
was idling along as it went past my grandfathers house, but you couldn't
hear it, but you could sure feel the air pressure change. I suspect the
engine was idling with the absolute minimum of fuel combustion to keep it
idling over, and this meant the thing was behaving as an air pump, and not
making any noticeable exhaust noise.

2006\09\06@122927 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


{Quote hidden}

Possibly it was resonance (e.g. between two buildings) and you happened to have you head at one of the peak pressure nodes. It's quite uncomfortable in one room of my house if a car is waiting outside with it engine idling at the wrong speed, the whole room resonates, windows rattle etc.

Regards

Mike


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2006\09\06@123440 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
You might try using a piezo microphone to see if her head is vibrating
in response to some external noise.  Have her bite hard in it and not
move, record through the human hearing range, and then play it back to
her loudly while running it through a software filter to see if you
can pick out the frequency.

If earplugs don't work, and her head isn't vibrating, then I don't see
a way the cilia in the ear are moving, meaning that there's no audio
component, even though she percieves it as an audio annoyance.

Since it's localized to the tower, then I'd suuggest having her spend
a week at a friend's house away from the tower and see if it occurs at
other locations/times.  If not, then probably the best option is to
move - it's going to take longer and be more aggravating to get the
tower people to change than it's worth.

If she does have the problem at other times/places, then it becomes
interestingly more complex.

-Adam

On 9/6/06, Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\06@123724 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
When I say spend a week away, I mean to completely and utterly avoid
the tower and area during this time.  Just like medicine it takes
awhile for the body to recover from a long term annoyance.  It may be
that after a short time away it'll disappear, then when she returns
it'll take a few days to reappear, which could indicate other
environmental factors (chemicals, fumes, etc.

Treat it as a holiday.

-Adam

On 9/6/06, M. Adam Davis <stienmanEraseMEspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\09\06@224740 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 9/6/06, Russell McMahon <RemoveMEapptechEraseMEspamEraseMEparadise.net.nz> wrote:
> I can lend you a spectrum analyser of sorts if you get that far.

"Of sorts"? Sounds intriguing coming from you Russell...do tell!

:)

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\09\07@035712 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> I can lend you a spectrum analyser of sorts if you get that far.

> "Of sorts"? Sounds intriguing coming from you Russell...do tell!

Based on a kitset. (DSE based on EA I think)
"Some years" old.
Uses a TV tuner as RF head.
Works reasonably well.


       RM

2006\09\07@044258 by Jinx

face picon face
My friend Gina thanks you all very much and sincerely and
hopes you have long and happy lives. She assures you she
does not live with 30 cats, some dead, does not spend hours
cackling in the rocking chair she hasn't got and is not a tin-can-
hoarding, newspaper-collecting loony

To answer some questions -

Low intake of caffeine (generally health conscious)
Does not self-medicate
Has no pins in bones or a metal plate in the noggin
Is sure there's nothing wrong with her hearing, but has taken
this as an opportunity to have a test and also an overall
health check

The tower has been up for 5 years (corroded bolt now
seems more likely, even if not the cause), and started life as
a Vodaphone cell site. A few weeks ago, BCL (SkyTV)
dishes were added and she says she noticed the tone one
month ago. One night it wasn't there, the next night it very
obviously was

She's now paying more attention to where the tone is. When
she takes the dog for a walk down to the beach (she's on the
outskirts of Brawns Bay, Alan, at the fringe of suburbia), the
tone disappears when she goes over a ridge (ie out of sight of
the tower) and reappears on the way back home

It does seem to be present all around the house, inside and
out. Volume seems not to change with listening position

I've still to do some work with her, eg testing other towers,
trying to get some sort of recording and so on

If/when we ever find out what it is, y'all be the first to know

2006\09\07@044441 by Jinx

face picon face

> Post some photos of her here, all the better for us to examine the
> situation more closely.

<stern voice, disapproving look, wagging finger>

Oh, Marcel, so inapproriate

</>

pssst, I'll do what I can

hey, pssst, you didn't get them from me and you ain't seen me, right ?

2006\09\07@045559 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>hey, pssst, you didn't get them from me and you ain't seen me, right ?

Well, we can only not see you if you aren't in the pictures ... ;)))

2006\09\07@050333 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>She's now paying more attention to where the tone is. When
>she takes the dog for a walk down to the beach (she's on the
>outskirts of Brawns Bay, Alan, at the fringe of suburbia),

Do you mean Browns Bay, on the North Shore ?

{Quote hidden}

Well, at least she is apparently attempting to be scientifically observant
about the problem. It does sound like some form of interaction between the
recently added microwave dishes and possibly some dental work. Maybe a check
for cavities is in order ;)))))

But it does also suggest something like an experiment one of the TV stations
did here with a mobile cellphone mast.

They had a bunch of people go to a weekend retreat type place, well away
from any cell phone masts, and had a mobile base station come and park
outside. Even with the base station turned off some of them reported
"effects" from it. The base station was turned on and off at random
intervals during the weekend, and an attempt made at correlation of
observations of effects reported by the subjects. At the end of it there was
no correlation.

2006\09\07@050514 by Jinx

face picon face

> >hey, pssst, you didn't get them from me and you ain't seen me, right ?
>
> Well, we can only not see you if you aren't in the pictures ... ;)))

Chances are I'll be there.....doing bunny ears behind her

2006\09\07@050857 by Jinx

face picon face
> she's on the outskirts of Brawns Bay

Ooopsie, typo, Browns Bay. Brawns Bay would be for All
Blacks and persons of a concrete drive laying persuasion


2006\09\07@063713 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
part 1 930 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittspam_OUTspamKILLspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> She's now paying more attention to where the tone is. When
> she takes the dog for a walk down to the beach (she's on the
> outskirts of Brawns Bay, Alan, at the fringe of suburbia), the
> tone disappears when she goes over a ridge (ie out of sight of
> the tower) and reappears on the way back home

You can make an Ultrasound converter. I can't find the diagram. NE602 work
substracting the PLL frequency to the sound frequency. It deliver a sound in
500 to 5000 Hz range. eg setting the PLL in 20KHz you get 20.5 to 25.5KHz in
a range 500Hz to 5KHz.
Perhaps it helps her to triangle the source, and another ultrasounds sources
like gas leaks, water pipes, et cetera. It has a good directivity.
I don't have the complete diagram but I believe you can figured out.

Regards,
Dennis.
ps: You can do the chineese massages, anyway.




part 2 3858 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2006\09\07@080859 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jinx wrote:

> trying to get some sort of recording and so on

IIRC you are quite experienced with epoxy. Maybe you can make one of these
parabola reflectors for a microphone... Might help locate it, if it is an
external audio source. Don't know how much work that is, though.

Or you could use an audio sine generator and try to get it to create
interference with the sound she hears. That's probably the quickest way to
get an idea of the frequency. This may help knowing what to look for.

Gerhard

2006\09\07@081010 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> She's now paying more attention to where the tone is. When
> she takes the dog for a walk down to the beach (she's on the
> outskirts of Brawns Bay, Alan, at the fringe of suburbia), the
> tone disappears when she goes over a ridge (ie out of sight of
> the tower) and reappears on the way back home
>
> It does seem to be present all around the house, inside and
> out. Volume seems not to change with listening position


Serious suggestion:    Try enclosing in a ferrous metal screen with no
large slots or holes. This could be eg a refrigerator (going or not)
BUT she may take exception to that but various "tin" trunks etc may
do. It MUST be iron/steel and not a non ferrous material. The test
need last only seconds to see if it makes a difference.


       Russell


2006\09\07@081011 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> The base station was turned on and off at random
> intervals during the weekend, and an attempt made at correlation of
> observations of effects reported by the subjects. At the end of it
> there was
> no correlation.

At lower levels you need to wait about 20 years and then examine their
children :-) :-(.
May not always be quite as silly as it sounds alas.


       Russell


2006\09\07@083848 by Jinx

face picon face

> Do you mean Browns Bay, on the North Shore ?

I had a friend over tonight who's Nokia field tech, and he
pointed me to this site

http://spectrumonline.med.govt.nz/licence-search.html

Select Auckland for the district and Pine Hill for the transmitter
location to bring up what's on the tower in question. I remember
now that Woosh was the last service added, just before the
trouble started

At the Radio Spectrum Management site, there's this link

http://www.rsm.govt.nz/rfi/index.html

which I'll pass on, and maybe she can get an RSM engineer
to come out and test her home

2006\09\07@085051 by Jinx

face picon face
> Serious suggestion:    Try enclosing in a ferrous metal screen
> with no large slots or holes. This could be eg a refrigerator
> (going or not) BUT she may take exception to that but various
> "tin" trunks etc may do. It MUST be iron/steel and not a non
> ferrous material. The test  need last only seconds to see if it
> makes a difference.

You may have missed my comment last night that I'd discussed
with her borrowing a friend's panel van and foiling the windows
and grounding the whole lot. One problem was connecting foil
to the van body. I too thought of a tin trunk or fridge-like box,
but the van seemed the most available and accessible to her. I'm
going to call her first thing in the morning to tell her about the
RSM site (she's present e-mailless) and will ask if she's come up
with anything Faraday cage-wise

2006\09\07@094004 by Jinx

face picon face
> You can make an Ultrasound converter

Funny you mention that Dennis. When I thought the tone
was much higher than perhaps it really is, I picked up a
recent copy of Silicon Chip and described to her an
Ultrasonic Convertor project to shift down the sound of
bats. Similar to yours but uses an MC1496 mixer

2006\09\07@101246 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Dennis,

On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:36:22 -0300, Dennis Crawley wrote:

> You can make an Ultrasound converter. I can't find the diagram. NE602 work
> substracting the PLL frequency to the sound frequency. It deliver a sound in
> 500 to 5000 Hz range. eg setting the PLL in 20KHz you get 20.5 to 25.5KHz in
> a range 500Hz to 5KHz.

Ah, good thinking:  a Bat Detector!  I have one that I'm sure would work, if there wasn't a planet between it and the problem area.  

Jinx: Do you have a Bat Detector to hand, or someone who could lend you one?

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\07@101934 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Jinx,

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:31:46 +1200, Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Fascinating facility, the ability to see who's doing what on a tower - it would be useful over here, but I can't see them doing that.

I love CANWEST's address:  PRIVATE BAG 92624  Is that what we call a P.O.Box?

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\07@103632 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I love CANWEST's address:  PRIVATE BAG 92624  Is that what we call a
P.O.Box?

No, a private bag is the next step up from a Private box.

To get the mail from a private box, you have to go to the PO where the box
is located.

A Private Bag is a mail bag with your PB no. in the mail room, and all your
mail gets put in it, and then that bag is delivered direct to your premises.
It is more like a personal postman when you have large volumes of mail.

2006\09\07@113606 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> Serious suggestion:    Try enclosing in a ferrous metal screen

>> It MUST be iron/steel and not a non ferrous material.

> You may have missed my comment last night that I'd discussed
> with her borrowing a friend's panel van and foiling the windows
> and grounding the whole lot.

FOIL will not do, as per my above comment, unless it's steel foil,
which we (usually) have not got.

And, grounding is unlikely to be necessary or useful as long as you
get full ferrous enclosure. Grounding would help electrostatic
coupling, which this probably isn't.

A van etc is not a good choice as you can easily introduce long thin
slits which RF just loves to creep through. There are enough solidly
steel fully enclosed things in the world that seeking one out is
liable to be worthwhile. An old tin trunk, as used of yore for moving
house, would suffice. A cabinet type clothes drier (once common, now
seldom seen) would be ideal. Just watch the door closures, although
these are usually well overlapped.

As a bonus, if the cabinet drier worked, although I doubt that it
would, she could use one as an escape haven or even bed !

The Salvation army have an extremely good Op Shop just down from you
(as I imagine you know)(among the best I've met :-) )(pre-selected
dumpster diving at only slightly higher price)  and it's just the sort
of place to have a cabinet drier or a tin trunk.

Worth a try if a solid steel cabinet etc cannot be easily obtained is
'chicken wire' or similar. Fine mesh best. Making a continuous cage
with well scrunched together joins would not be overly hard or
expensive. I may have some I could lend you if you have none.

I suspect that, sadly, none of these solutions are going to work and
that she is more likely to be dealing with a psychosomatic problem.
I'd be pleased if it was not so and that there turns out to be a
bricks ad mortar (or RF and fillings) solution as the alternative can
be most intractable. These can be exceedingly real - but the product
of the wonderful and arcane workings of our brains. Even the sanest of
people can have the strangest problems with selected aspects of their
brain functions. Coming to terms with such things when you are
otherwise 103% normal can be a challenge.




       Russell

2006\09\07@164820 by Richard Prosser

picon face
An no-one's suggested she sleep in a lead-lined coffin yet?

RP

On 08/09/06, Russell McMahon <RemoveMEapptechTakeThisOuTspamspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\07@180403 by Jinx

face picon face
> > spectrumonline.med.govt.nz/licence-search.html

> Fascinating facility, the ability to see who's doing what on
> a tower

My Nokia friend tells me that the results might indicate only the
registered transmissions. There could be unregistered or unlicensed
transmitters on the tower too, or perhaps even reserved spots
with no transmitter yet

And yes, it is a fascinating peek into things that are all around us

2006\09\07@181528 by David VanHorn

picon face
I am very skeptical of RF from such a site causing any sort of observable
biological activity.

Why is it that people at our local TV transmitter (750kW) don't have any
noticable effects?  Our local AM broadcaster at 10kW?  My HT at 5W with the
antenna inches from my head?

Far FAR more likely that something else entirely is going on.

2006\09\07@192838 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
Howard Winter <EraseMEHDRWspamspamspamBeGoneH2Org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I've never heard!.
But since you've told us something about it I found this link
http://bertrik.sikken.nl/bat/index.html
and, well, they are talking about almost the same.
I'm very interested in how this thing is going to end. :)

Dennis Crawley
Buenos Aires,
Argentina



2006\09\07@194900 by Gus S Calabrese

face picon face
^ I am ( seereously ) suggesting that you shield her from possible
X-men effects ( Magneto ) by wrapping her completely  in chains.  I  
don't think
the chains will be completely effective if she is wearing any clothes.
Please report the results and send photos.
AGSC ^
On 2006-Sep 07, at 16:15hrs PM, David VanHorn wrote:

I am very skeptical of RF from such a site causing any sort of  
observable
biological activity.

Why is it that people at our local TV transmitter (750kW) don't have any
noticable effects?  Our local AM broadcaster at 10kW?  My HT at 5W  
with the
antenna inches from my head?

Far FAR more likely that something else entirely is going on.

2006\09\07@214058 by Jinx

face picon face
> ^ I am ( seereously ) suggesting that you shield her from
> possible X-men effects ( Magneto ) by wrapping her
> completely  in chains.  I  don't think the chains will be
> completely effective if she is wearing any clothes

And that opinion is based on........ ;-) Hehe, you grub

> Please report the results and send photos.

Now, see, they're gonna cost ya

Apparently she did get some relief and sleep last night by standing
"tin" (ie steel) oven trays around the head end of the bed. She
reports that she could hear the sound above the trays but not nearly
so loud when she put her head down on the pillow. Interesting

When I mentioned that I'd found a CanWest transmitter on the
tower, she added that her TV3 (a CanWest TV station) reception
has deteriorated recently. "Turned to shit" was the phrase used

I've suggested she enquire at RSM and report the signal quality
drop to CanWest. Hopefully between them they can find out if
there's something out of whack on the tower. With all the work
being done on it by other companies, maybe someone's trod on
or knocked something

2006\09\07@222653 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Apparently she did get some relief and sleep last night by standing
> "tin" (ie steel) oven trays around the head end of the bed. She
> reports that she could hear the sound above the trays but not nearly
> so loud when she put her head down on the pillow. Interesting

Do the chicken wire test quickly before somebody fixes something. IF
this works it's a major indicator of real RF issues - or a well
targeted psychosomatic effect. Either way, if it works it works  :-)


       Russell


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