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'[OT] This time, it just might BE aliens!'
2016\10\11@185945 by Van Horn, David

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arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1610/1610.03031.pdf

Interesting

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2016\10\11@211106 by RussellMc

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​
On 12 October 2016 at 10:59, Van Horn, David <
david.vanhornspamKILLspambackcountryaccess.com> wrote:


> https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1610/1610.03031.pdf



Last time it also just might have been LGMs.
But wasn't.
So too, almost certainly, this time.
But it's interesting to see the range of things that they have eliminated,
or tried to and/or think they have.

Their methodology is a few gnat's whiskers off arcane, which is how it
should be.


​            Russell
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2016\10\11@213129 by David VanHorn

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Agreed.  It's not over till it's over but this is interesting.
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2016\10\12@084820 by Justin Richards

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Can I assume that the use of "star" is a general term to describe planets
or do they intend to refer to stars.

On 12 October 2016 at 09:31, David VanHorn <.....microbrixKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed.  It's not over till it's over but this is interesting.
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2016\10\12@094820 by Isaac M. Bavaresco

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Probably they refer to stars with potentially orbiting planets. Today
there is no technology to directly observe exoplanets in sufficient
detail to obtain the data.

The emissions of civilizations around the stars would be seen by us
mixed with the star's spectra.

Isaac



Em 12/10/2016 09:48, Justin Richards escreveu:
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2016\10\12@100510 by alan.b.pearce

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I think it is %deity% playing with the scientists minds ...



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2016\10\12@100839 by RussellMc

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On 13 October 2016 at 00:48, Justin Richards <spamBeGonejustin.richardsspamBeGonespamgmail.com>
wrote:

> Can I assume that the use of "star" is a general term to describe planets
> or do they intend to refer to stars.
>

​Stars are what provide the energy, presumably. Maybe not.
The one mention of planet is:

The ETI hypothesis is strengthened by the fact that the signals are found
in stars having spectral types within a narrow spectral range centered near
the G2 spectral type of the sun. Intuitively, we would expect stars having
a spectral type similar to the sun to be more likely to have planets
capable of having ETI. This is a complex and highly speculative issue (see
Lammer et al. 2009) and we shall not delve on it.


I feel that this is extroadinarily[tm] "thin"

The ETI hypothesis requires that all different ETI transmitters choose to
broadcast with the same time separation of pulses and one may wonder why
they do so. This is a highly 32 speculative issue that may have several
explanations. A possible explanation that makes sense is that all ETI use
the same time separation to make it clear that the pulses all come from ETI.


I'd have thought that some sort or variations inn relative periodicity
would be far more definitive an indication.
eg if the periods were in the ratios of

1:3:5:7:11:13:17:19:23 .... we should not have too much trouble drawing the
"correct" conclusion.


            R




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2016\10\12@101253 by Van Horn, David

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VBG!

-----Original Message-----
From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu [piclist-bouncesEraseMEspam.....mit.edu] On Behalf Of EraseMEalan.b.pearcespamstfc.ac.uk
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 8:05 AM
To: RemoveMEpiclistEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu
Subject: RE: [OT] This time, it just might BE aliens!

I think it is %deity% playing with the scientists minds ...



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2016\10\12@101743 by Van Horn, David

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> Can I assume that the use of "star" is a general term to describe
> planets or do they intend to refer to stars.


I read up on optical SETI last night.   The idea seems to be that you add very narrow pulses of laser light to the spectrum of the star.
Another civilization would have optical telescopes, and would have discovered spectroscopy.  That's not enough though.
Looking at the spectrum by normal means, the signal is buried below the noise.  You also have to do an FFT on the spectrum data, which then reveals this anomalous, very narrow line.
As the papers said, there is no known process in nature which sends such narrow pulses (time and wavelength) at the appropriate power levels.

Of course it may be something like pulsars, which got the designations "LGM1" etc at first.
Either way, "WTF is that?" is the sound of science happening.

It promises to be interesting.

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2016\10\12@103022 by RussellMc

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On 13 October 2016 at 02:17, Van Horn, David <
RemoveMEdavid.vanhornspam_OUTspamKILLspambackcountryaccess.com> wrote:

> As the papers said, there is no known process in nature which sends such
> narrow pulses (time and wavelength) at the appropriate power levels


​I think that should read something like

" ... until now there was no known process in nature which sends such
narrow pulses (time and wavelength) at the appropriate power levels ... ".

Now we know there is one. Just not what it is. Yet.
(Escape clause: LGM are "in nature" :-).)


             R
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2016\10\12@145317 by Jean-Paul Louis

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I agree with David,

A narrow pulse cause is unknown today, but that does not prove ETI.
If those pulses had any kind of varying modulation, that would be a different story.

Waiting for better news,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL


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2016\10\12@152204 by Richard Prosser

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Or is part of a progression to check the state of technology?
You need optical telescopes to see that far, you need FFT to see the
the narrow pulses & bandwidths, you need ???? to see the modulation,
you need ??? to decode it........

RP

On 13 October 2016 at 07:53, Jean-Paul Louis <RemoveMElouijpKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
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2016\10\12@152955 by Jean-Paul Louis

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Richard,

I was not talking about decoding it, as that would need our understanding
of their way of thinking. But detecting fairly rapid variations of
Amplitude, Frequency, Phase or a combination of either.
That would be easy with the FFT spectrum, and does not need to decode,
Just find that there are variable patterns, which would imply messages.

Just another $0.02,

Jean-Paul
N1JPL



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2016\10\12@160945 by Van Horn, David

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Or is part of a progression to check the state of technology?
You need optical telescopes to see that far, you need FFT to see the the narrow pulses & bandwidths, you need ???? to see the modulation, you need ??? to decode it........

RP


If it is an alien signal, then likely we will find clues.  Someone just gave the earth monkeys a "Galactica Online" disk, and we're trying to open the package.
I would guess that we will find a clue to the first layer of the information, and once we decode that, it will tell us how to look deeper, then at some point we will peel the onion enough to start getting data.



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2016\10\12@205944 by Richard Prosser

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Hi Jean-Paul,

I was thinking more about other ways of modulating a signal, rather
than something that would be picked up by an FFT. Going back to
Armstrong etc. the most efficient modulation methods are those closest
to random noise. What if the narrow band signal was a pilot signal for
wideband transmission elsewhere in the spectrum (similar to FM stereo
systems). Something buried in the solar noise would be hard to find
without additional clues. In the era of spark transmitters, who would
have considered frequency skipping transmissions??

I agree about the decoding though, even once demodulated we may
difficulty interpreting the result given what is likely to be
completely different cutural noms and thought patterns.

Although I believe  it's more likely to be some sort of natural phenomina.

RP

On 13 October 2016 at 08:29, Jean-Paul Louis <.....louijpspam_OUTspamgmail.com> wrote:
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2016\10\12@230707 by RussellMc

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On 13 October 2016 at 12:59, Richard Prosser <spamBeGonerhprosser@spam@spamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

​>
What if the narrow band signal was a pilot signal for

> wideband transmission elsewhere in the spectrum (similar to FM stereo
> systems).


​I like that idea.
400 ish unmodulated carriers all the same sounded very unlikely to ​be a
signalling system.
400 ish low power [ [tm] :-) ] synchronising beacons to maintain the matter
transport system in isochronous lock sounds fancier, and scarier and  ... .
'This is just the sync channel'.


  Russell
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