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'[OT] Tales from the coal-face'
2009\03\09@163109 by Jinx

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notalwaysright.com/

Customer on the phone: "I know you aren't tech support, but I have an easy
question."
Call Centre Worker: "OK ..."
Customer: "How do you make the @ symbol... You know, for the email?"
Call Centre Worker: "You hold the shift key and press 2."
Customer: "Won't that just make a capital 2?

2009\03\09@172134 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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> http://notalwaysright.com/
>
> Customer on the phone: "I know you aren't tech support, but I have an easy
> question."
> Call Centre Worker: "OK ..."
> Customer: "How do you make the @ symbol... You know, for the email?"
> Call Centre Worker: "You hold the shift key and press 2."
> Customer: "Won't that just make a capital 2?

Vaguely funny. But not as much so for me, being the owner of a laptop with
an Austrian mindset. It's an HP. I bought it in Vienna. The keyboard has
variou special symbols and an extra shift key to allow various 'speech
marks' and special characters to be added. AND the various characters used
for internet addresses and punctuation (eg ; / \ @ ; : *  ... )have fled to
strange and obscure places not shown by the key annotations. These get
learnt after a while but changing PCs can be fun. Finding eg "@" after a
period of disuse can be a hunt and peck exercise.


          Russell

2009\03\09@173142 by Tamas Rudnai

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I have a US layout at home with the @ on top of 2, but working mostly on UK
layout with the " on top of it. I thing the strangest is still the French
where you do not need to press the shift for punctuation marks but for the
numbers... They even have the AZERTY keboard as far as I remember so it is
impossible to type on it - for me, not for them of course :-)

Tamas


On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Russell McMahon <spam_OUTapptechTakeThisOuTspamparadise.net.nz>wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\09@192106 by Halldór

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Changing keyboard layout is so trivial that I can't see how this can
be an issue.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Tamas Rudnai <.....tamas.rudnaiKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> -

2009\03\09@194157 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Halldór <.....halldor89KILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

> Changing keyboard layout is so trivial that I can't see how this can
> be an issue
>

Well, for those who have problem finding the @ sign and especially for those
who think there is a capital 2 it is a problem ;-)

BTW just tried out, in Hungarian layout the @ is with AltGr+V - In a real
Hungarian keyboard there is the sign on the key I believe, however, if
someone has the layout set but has a US keyboard for example then it is time
consuming to find out and it does make sense to call tech support in my
opinion - capital 2 still does not make any sense :-)

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\09@195607 by Robert Rolf

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Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Halldór <EraseMEhalldor89spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Changing keyboard layout is so trivial that I can't see how this can
>>be an issue
>>
>
>
> Well, for those who have problem finding the @ sign and especially for those
> who think there is a capital 2 it is a problem ;-)

One can just hold down the alt key and type 64 on the keypad to generate
the scan code for "@". ALT+ 3 digits lets you enter codes for the
extended characters.
> Tamas

2009\03\10@051207 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Changing keyboard layout is so trivial that I can't see how this can
>be an issue.
>
>On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Tamas Rudnai <tamas.rudnaispamspam_OUTgmail.com>
>wrote:
>> I have a US layout at home with the @ on top of 2, but working mostly on
>> UK
>> layout with the " on top of it. I thing the strangest is still the French
>> where you do not need to press the shift for punctuation marks but for
>> the
>> numbers... They even have the AZERTY keboard as far as I remember so it
>> is
>> impossible to type on it - for me, not for them of course :-)

Oh it is an issue. We had sent a PC to France as part of a test set up,
asking them to provide a keyboard and monitor. Then we went to use it to log
on - most of the operation of the unit was done by mouse point and click,
but logging on had its own hassles - to change the keyboard layout you first
have to log on, but the keys are in different places. Eventually we logged
on by looking at the key positions on a UK laptop we had with us, and once
logged on it wasn't logged off.

I don't think you realize just how different to the US/UK English layout a
French keyboard is ...

2009\03\10@052644 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alan B. Pearce <@spam@Alan.B.PearceKILLspamspamstfc.ac.uk>wrote:

> I don't think you realize just how different to the US/UK English layout a
> French keyboard is ...
>

Oh, I know that. Usually I have problems with the 0 (zero) as it is changed
to o umlaut in Hungarian layout and the Y/Z as it is swapped... Usually I
try not using them for passwords for this reason (and certainly not accents
as it causes much more trouble).

Anyway, I was wondering why could not it set up a layout code for keyboards?
Like if I plug a UK keyboard into a French computer why is not the keyboard
tells the OS that it is a UK one and should use the appropriate layout? So
one could just plug the keyboard and these kind of problems would have been
eliminated... Even could use more than one keyboard on one computer, one has
a physical and logical layout of UK the other is with French without
disturbing each other if you know what I mean.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\10@083347 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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> I don't think you realize just how different to the US/UK English layout a
> French keyboard is ...

I had a sudden introduction to this when trying to use an internet cafe PC
on my 1st visit to Paris. Extremely hard to use. But not as hard as a PC
that insists on only producing Cjinese characters when you press the
"English" labelled keys.

Altxxx + paste to an editor and then copy and paste to send a message home.
Plus cutting words out of incoming emails :-).




  Russell

2009\03\10@105309 by Jim Franklin

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Now that is a brilliant idea, although I am sure a lot of "software is king"
fanatics will have some disagreement...
It wouldn't be a major task to read what would effectively be the codepage
for a specific keyboard and set the OS language/layout accordingly. -

Obviously this would need some overrideable settings to allow IT people to
play the usual "keyboard configuration swap joke" on unsuspecting victims...

-jim

On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:26:27 +0000, Tamas Rudnai wrote
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alan B. Pearce
<KILLspamAlan.B.PearceKILLspamspamstfc.ac.uk>wrote:
{Quote hidden}

keyboards?
{Quote hidden}

> --

2009\03\10@135845 by Vitaliy

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>> http://notalwaysright.com/
>>
>> Customer on the phone: "I know you aren't tech support, but I have an
>> easy
>> question."
>> Call Centre Worker: "OK ..."
>> Customer: "How do you make the @ symbol... You know, for the email?"
>> Call Centre Worker: "You hold the shift key and press 2."
>> Customer: "Won't that just make a capital 2?
>
> Vaguely funny. But not as much so for me, being the owner of a laptop with
> an Austrian mindset. It's an HP. I bought it in Vienna. The keyboard has
> variou special symbols and an extra shift key to allow various 'speech
> marks' and special characters to be added. AND the various characters used
> for internet addresses and punctuation (eg ; / \ @ ; : *  ... )have fled
> to
> strange and obscure places not shown by the key annotations. These get
> learnt after a while but changing PCs can be fun. Finding eg "@" after a
> period of disuse can be a hunt and peck exercise.

I tried using the "Russian typewriter" layout many years ago, and found
myself stumbling when typing in English. So I switched the layout to one
that is consistent phonetically. So when I type "SAMOVAR", I see "CAMOBAP"
in the word processor.

->A bit of useless trivia: the KOI8-R encoding used a similar mapping
scheme, because when the MSB got dropped for whatever reason, you could
still read the transliterated text in 7-bit ASCII.

I may need to do create a custom layout when I get serious about typing in
Spanish. There's just no rhyme or reason for where the keys are located
(from a US
keyboard user's POV).

Vitaliy

2009\03\10@154701 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Halldór wrote:

> Changing keyboard layout is so trivial that I can't see how this can
> be an issue.

One issue at least is that if you're used to one keyboard and are
working on a different keyboard, you have two obvious choices: use the
layout of the keyboard you're working on, or use the layout of the
keyboard you're used to. Both choices have obvious drawbacks, and it's
not always trivial to avoid them.

(One possibility is to avoid buying notebooks or keyboards with layouts
you don't like... but that's not always possible.)

Gerhard

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