Searching \ for '[OT] TXT allowed in NZ school exams' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=txt+allowed+school
Search entire site for: 'TXT allowed in NZ school exams'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] TXT allowed in NZ school exams'
2006\11\08@151851 by Jinx

face picon face
www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10409902

Gud greef !!

That, and the defeat of the bill to raise the drinking age back to
20, really bodes well for the future doesn't it. Glad I got a proper
education

2006\11\08@163313 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
1 of my favo8 Mark Twain qots is:

"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

Testing for comprehension does not require correct spelling and English
unless one is testing for comprehension of spelling or proper English.

The problem with schools is that they do not embrace new ways of getting the
job done. They are stuck in a rut, spewing the same crap as always, not
adjusting to the real world and not given the funds, support, and motivation
that they need to do the job they should be doing for our kids.

We home school. It's the only way we can afford a decent education for our
kids.

The drinking age is a sore spot with me. If you are old enough to fight for
your country, you should be old enough to drink. No one should have to kill
a man in the morning and not be able to have a stiff shot of whiskey some
following night. The problem is when they drink every night for the rest of
their lives. And that is what counseling, but more than that; not getting in
a war in the first place, is for. Now that the President has had the house
and senate cut out from under him, maybe we can get the impeachment going,
get our kids out of that hell hole and let the Iraqi's get back to their
time honored traditions of killing each other.

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2006\11\08@180211 by Jinx

face picon face
> 1 of my favo8 Mark Twain qots is:

Someone asked to spell that word in full may now say "favourate"

> "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."
>
> Testing for comprehension does not require correct spelling and
> English unless one is testing for comprehension of spelling or proper
> English

So you, as an employer, would be quite happy to call in a translator
to decipher a report ?

The problem with TXT is that there are no rules. Eventually, if
everyone goes their own way and does what they like, what
happens to communication ? How do you explain Pythagoras
or hydraulics in TXT ? And know you were understood ?

> The drinking age is a sore spot with me. If you are old enough to
> fight for your country, you should be old enough to drink

IMHO you can't equate the two. However, although NZ Armed Forces
are involved in most conflicts, it is generally in a support role - medical,
supplies etc - and not as frontline combatants. So my view is one from
the position of not seeing body bags arrive at the airport

Those examples often cited as "we can do this, why can't we drink ?"
are, for want of a better phrase, character building in a positive way.
Voting, driving, marrying, serving in the Armed Forces and pose no
threat to physiological development. Alcohol is a potent poison to a
developing brain, and the 18yo still has several years before reaching
maturity. Behaviour is the problem, not alcohol per se, but teenagers
do what they gotta do

> The problem is when they drink every night for the rest of their lives

Not only that but, for the reason above, there is, and always has been,
a culture of binge drinking. Most people will grow out of that behaviour,
but won't grow out of the damage they did to synapses


2006\11\08@181615 by James Nick Sears

flavicon
face
Interesting.  A bullet is a pretty potent poison to a developing  
brain as well.

-n.

On Nov 8, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Jinx wrote:

> Voting, driving, marrying, serving in the Armed Forces and pose no
> threat to physiological development. Alcohol is a potent poison to a
> developing brain, and the 18yo still has several years before reaching
> maturity. Behaviour is the problem, not alcohol per se, but teenagers
> do what they gotta do

2006\11\08@185219 by Jinx

face picon face
> Interesting.  A bullet is a pretty potent poison to a developing  
> brain as well.

Touche

2006\11\09@074041 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jinx wrote:

>> Testing for comprehension does not require correct spelling and English
>> unless one is testing for comprehension of spelling or proper English
>
> So you, as an employer, would be quite happy to call in a translator
> to decipher a report ?
>
> The problem with TXT is that there are no rules.

There could be rules, couldn't there? There possibly even are some kind of
rules, in the sense that the word must sound the same. Besides, English is,
pronunciation-wise, a language without a lot of rules anyway -- so this, in
a way, fits into the basic scheme :)

> Eventually, if everyone goes their own way and does what they like, what
> happens to communication ?

This is what I always wonder when I have to pronounce English words I have
never spoken. But most native speakers assure me that I will be understood,
no matter what. One should be able to extend this capability to written
language, too :)

> How do you explain Pythagoras or hydraulics in TXT ? And know you were
> understood ?

German is a relatively precise language. But most don't understand neither
Pythagoras nor hydraulics nonetheless -- and usually, if they understand
either, got there through the ample use of drawings. Which, maybe not by
accident, got into large scale use in teaching material in Germany by
following US examples after WWII.

I like a well-written text, no matter about what subject. I appreciate
careful and precise selection of words and language constructs (and suffer
a bit from not being able to do so to the same degree in English or
Portuguese as I can in German). But I guess James has a point, too --
besides, in a typical geometry or hydraulics test, I usually didn't write a
single complete sentence anyway, often not even a single word. Concise (and
correct) sequences of symbolic calculations are a language in its own right
:)

> [...] serving in the Armed Forces pose no threat to physiological
> development.

That probably was written with defensive armed forces in mind of a country
that doesn't get attacked :)

Gerhard

2006\11\09@100834 by James Nick Sears

flavicon
face
There are certainly rules at some level or else there would be no  
information exchanged.  You and I probably don't understand many of  
the rules, and they aren't defined in academic textbooks, but that  
doesn't mean that they don't exist.

-n.

On Nov 9, 2006, at 7:40 AM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>> The problem with TXT is that there are no rules.
>
> There could be rules, couldn't there? There possibly even are some  
> kind of
> rules, in the sense that the word must sound the same. Besides,  
> English is,
> pronunciation-wise, a language without a lot of rules anyway -- so  
> this, in
> a way, fits into the basic scheme :)

2006\11\09@103829 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
James Nick Sears wrote:

>> There could be rules, couldn't there? There possibly even are some kind
>> of rules, in the sense that the word must sound the same. Besides,
>> English is, pronunciation-wise, a language without a lot of rules
>> anyway -- so this, in a way, fits into the basic scheme :)

> There are certainly rules at some level or else there would be no  
> information exchanged.  You and I probably don't understand many of  
> the rules, and they aren't defined in academic textbooks, but that  
> doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Definitely, at least what concerns me about understanding them :)

OTOH, rules of this informal kind exist for the form of writing in question
also -- or else it wouldn't be used and the users wouldn't understand each
other. So that doesn't really serve as an argument in either way.

Gerhard

2006\11\09@110216 by David VanHorn

picon face
> OTOH, rules of this informal kind exist for the form of writing in
> question
> also -- or else it wouldn't be used and the users wouldn't understand each
> other. So that doesn't really serve as an argument in either way.


Might as well use pig latin then.

2006\11\09@111830 by James Nick Sears

flavicon
face
If as many people wrote/read fluent pig latin as wrote/read fluent  
TXT, it wouldn't be a bad choice for communication.  Also don't  
forget that the point of TXT is more abbreviated and efficient  
communication on cramped devices, whereas pig latin is a trivially  
cracked encryption system that adds bandwidth to the communication.

> Might as well use pig latin then.

2006\11\09@111931 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> There are certainly rules at some level or else there would be no
>> information exchanged.  You and I probably don't understand many of
>> the rules, and they aren't defined in academic textbooks, but that
>> doesn't mean that they don't exist.
>
>Definitely, at least what concerns me about understanding them :)
>
>OTOH, rules of this informal kind exist for the form of writing in question
>also -- or else it wouldn't be used and the users wouldn't understand each
>other. So that doesn't really serve as an argument in either way.

Maybe we should have Victor Borge and his Phonetic Punctuation as a
compulsory course in all schools. ;)

2006\11\09@114142 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 11/9/06, James Nick Sears <spam_OUTjnsearsTakeThisOuTspamjamesnsears.com> wrote:
>
> If as many people wrote/read fluent pig latin as wrote/read fluent
> TXT, it wouldn't be a bad choice for communication.  Also don't
> forget that the point of TXT is more abbreviated and efficient
> communication on cramped devices,



"lat3r" is smaller than "later" ?
"d00d" or "dude"

Perhaps I'm out of the loop.

2006\11\09@115626 by James Nick Sears

flavicon
face
that's 1337 h4X04 speak not txt speak.

One common example of actual txt speak: "cul8r" is 62% smaller than  
"see you later".

i don't do much texting really, but it's not that much different than  
the email abbreviations you see on here, just a little less pure  
abbreviation and a little more phonetically creative.  The primary  
point though isn't obfuscation, but abbreviation, unlike both 1337  
speak and pig latin.

When I type FWIW or LOL or RTFM, you all know what I mean.  It's not  
in Webster's (yet) but it works.


On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:41 AM, David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\11\09@115713 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Not really, but U is smaller than YOU, TNX is smaller than THANKS etc.

Tamas


On 09/11/06, David VanHorn <dvanhornspamKILLspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\11\09@120338 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>"lat3r" is smaller than "later" ?

"l8r" is though

2006\11\09@123623 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Maybe we should have Victor Borge and his Phonetic
> Punctuation as a compulsory course in all schools. ;)

Perhaps not that one, but I would be very happy to have a system of words
that are phonetically pronounceable without the massive rote memorization
required for English.

---
James.


2006\11\09@123927 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> "lat3r" is smaller than "later" ?
> "d00d" or "dude"

Neither of those is TXT. They are from crackers who think it important to
obfuscate words in order to appear cool.

L8r is smaller than later
Dood is the same size as dude but makes more sense phonetically.

---
James.


2006\11\09@124556 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face

> When I type FWIW or LOL or RTFM, you all know what I mean.  
> It's not in Webster's (yet) but it works.

In my other spare time, I would love to write a TXT to text to TXT
translator web page. You enter text and it comes back as TXT along with
statistics on the compression achieved. Then for some of the older folks,
there is a page to enter TXT and get back text.

Another page could translate between phonetically correct words and the
"correct" English spellings. E.g. Dude to Dood and back again.

And another point: I would love to see people pronounce the words as they
are spelled. E.g. Wednesday should be pronounced Wed nes day and not Winds
day as it often is. "Of" is uh fff and not uh vvv.

Ok, enough day dreaming, back to work.

---
James.


2006\11\09@131035 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
James,

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:45:39 -0800, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

>...
>  I would love to see people pronounce the words as they
> are spelled. E.g. Wednesday should be pronounced Wed nes day and not Winds
> day as it often is.

Actually when I was a kid there was an accent that did pronounce it "wed'nsday", but it seems to have died out (along with saying "four and twenty"
instead of "twenty-four", making "often" sound like "orphan", etc.) - nowadays almost everyone says Wens day.  Its spelling comes from its origin as
"Wodin's day", and its modern pronunciation from people being lazy and/or abbreviating the sound.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\11\09@132211 by Orin Eman

picon face
On 11/9/06, James Newtons Massmind <EraseMEjamesnewtonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmassmind.org> wrote:

> Another page could translate between phonetically correct words and the
> "correct" English spellings. E.g. Dude to Dood and back again.

Good luck with "there", "their" and "they're"...

> And another point: I would love to see people pronounce the words as they
> are spelled. E.g. Wednesday should be pronounced Wed nes day and not Winds
> day as it often is. "Of" is uh fff and not uh vvv.

Wednesday is a corruption of something like Woden's day to start
with... got pronounced "wensdi" where I come from in England.  Why
force pronunciation to an arbitrary version of the original?

Orin.

2006\11\09@140253 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> [...] I would be very happy to have a system of words that are
> phonetically pronounceable without the massive rote memorization
> required for English.

Try (almost?) any Romance language. In Portuguese, for example, about the
only letter that doesn't have a clear (and simple) pronunciation rule is
'x' -- and it's not that frequent. I think at least Spanish and Italian are
similar in that respect.

Gerhard

2006\11\09@170944 by Carlos Marcano

picon face
On 09/11/06, Gerhard Fiedler <listsspamspam_OUTconnectionbrazil.com> wrote:

> I think at least Spanish and Italian are
> similar in that respect.

But then (in Spanish) we have all those annoying ó á í é ú (accent symbols).

Saludos,

Carlos.

2006\11\09@173601 by Paul Anderson

face picon face
On 11/8/06, Jinx <@spam@joecolquittKILLspamspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
> The problem with TXT is that there are no rules. Eventually, if
> everyone goes their own way and does what they like, what
> happens to communication ? How do you explain Pythagoras
> or hydraulics in TXT ? And know you were understood ?
>
I think, ultimately, it leads us in a giant circle - the dropping of
vowels from english.  There are many ancient languages(numerous forms
of egyptian, hebrew, and sanskrit I beleive) that simply did not
bother to write the vowels.  It seems that english is now moving in a
similar direction.  Spelling is important, and there has to be an
agreed upon convention.  Personally, I have always seen a great deal
of beauty in english, and it's a grievous disappointment to see it
massacred so.

I blame the dropping of latin from school curricula, it has always
provided a firm foundation for understanding english.

>
> Those examples often cited as "we can do this, why can't we drink ?"
> are, for want of a better phrase, character building in a positive way.
> Voting, driving, marrying, serving in the Armed Forces and pose no
> threat to physiological development.
>
I think there are those who would argue with great vehemence that
serving in the armed forces poses a great deal of threat to
physiological development:)


--
Paul Anderson
VE3HOP
KILLspamwackyvorlonKILLspamspamgmail.com
http://www.oldschoolhacker.com

2006\11\09@175555 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
James,

On 11/9/06, James Newtons Massmind <RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspammassmind.org> wrote:

> Another page could translate between phonetically correct words and the
> "correct" English spellings. E.g. Dude to Dood and back again.

Well in fact that one isn't even English, it's (West-coast) American!  :-)))

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\11\09@184646 by Jinx

face picon face
> I think there are those who would argue with great vehemence
> that serving in the armed forces poses a great deal of threat to
> physiological development:)

I accept that if you're unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place
at the wrong time. And being injured is, after all, an occupational
hazard if you're in the Armed Forces

But there is a very positive side to being part of such a team. The
training, the life-long friendships, the discipline etc

2006\11\09@190642 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Well, what is English -- even in Oxford there was a Platt-German a-like
language spoken till 1930-ish. And over there Magdalen College still
pronounced completely different than anywhere else in the world :-)

Tamas


On 09/11/06, Howard Winter <spamBeGoneHDRWspamBeGonespamh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\11\09@191216 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Oh, forgot to mention Cockney :-) Is anybody understand Londoners? :-)
That's one of the reason why I do not watch Eastenders :-)

Tamas


On 10/11/06, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaispamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\11\09@195339 by Jinx

face picon face
> Oh, forgot to mention Cockney :-) Is anybody understand
> Londoners? :-) That's one of the reason why I do not watch
> Eastenders :-)

You're 'avin' a larf aren't ya ? I'd watch more. Actually not a
lot of Cockney in Eastenders. A little, like "Rosy" for tea and
once an old dear did use "Farmers". The busiest person with
the neverending job is Gus the streetcleaner. Sweeping up
dropped consonants all day long

I'd say Cockney is evolution. TXT is devolution

2006\11\10@035209 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> I think at least Spanish and Italian are
> similar in that respect.

But Spanish and French would have to include the hand waving in the input
text ... ;)

2006\11\10@035520 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> Oh, forgot to mention Cockney :-) Is anybody understand
> Londoners? :-) That's one of the reason why I do not watch
> Eastenders :-)

Oh, don't worry - the Indian Call Centre workers watch episodes of this to
brush up on the English ....

2006\11\10@035551 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jinx wrote:

> But there is a very positive side to being part of such a team. The
> training, the life-long friendships, the discipline etc

No problem with the first two, but I think you won't have trouble finding
examples where the last one has been problematic.

Gerhard

2006\11\10@070912 by Mike Hord

picon face
> > "lat3r" is smaller than "later" ?
> > "d00d" or "dude"
>
> Neither of those is TXT. They are from crackers who think it important to
> obfuscate words in order to appear cool.
>
> L8r is smaller than later
> Dood is the same size as dude but makes more sense phonetically.

FWIW, d00d (with zeroes) is a good deal faster to text than dude,
because d and zero are the first character on their respective keypad.
Four presses as opposed to seven or eight.

I:m a luddite- I text in full spelling. ;-)

Ben Franklin said the deal about spelling, too- *I don:t trust a man
with so little imagination as to spell a word only one way*

Mike H.

PS- any punctuation errors are a result of this crazy japanese
keyboard, not some weird comment on the subject matter.  The
punctuation keys are all over the map, the spacebar is 1/3 size and
the key where I normally reach for space turns my text into hira-gana.
I can:t find the language control panel because the current windows
mode is ALSO hira-gana.  Sigh.

2006\11\11@190845 by Mario Mendes

flavicon
face
Portuguese, spanish and Italian being languages that came out of latin,
hence the similarities.

-----Original Message-----
From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
Gerhard Fiedler
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 2:02 PM
To: RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspamspammit.edu
Subject: Re: [OT] TXT allowed in NZ school exams


James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> [...] I would be very happy to have a system of words that are
> phonetically pronounceable without the massive rote memorization
> required for English.

Try (almost?) any Romance language. In Portuguese, for example, about the
only letter that doesn't have a clear (and simple) pronunciation rule is 'x'
-- and it's not that frequent. I think at least Spanish and Italian are
similar in that respect.

Gerhard

2006\11\12@083657 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Mario Mendes wrote:

>> Try (almost?) any Romance language. In Portuguese, for example, about
>> the only letter that doesn't have a clear (and simple) pronunciation
>> rule is 'x' -- and it's not that frequent. I think at least Spanish and
>> Italian are similar in that respect.

> Portuguese, spanish and Italian being languages that came out of latin,
> hence the similarities.

Yes, that's what "Romance language" means. I always thought it was "Roman
language", but it seems I was wrong. It may or may not be that this is
related to "language of romance" :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages

There are others I'm not familiar with (Romanian, Catalan) and there is
French, of which I think it's not that simple in pronunciation (probably
due to the stronger influence from the northern European languages).

Gerhard

2006\11\13@104639 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Tamas,

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:12:15 +0000, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> Oh, forgot to mention Cockney :-) Is anybody understand Londoners? :-)

Cockney != Londoner  :-)  Strictly speaking a Cockney is someone born within the sound of Bow Bells (in the East End of London), but many people
speak with an accent that's difficult for people who aren't used to it to understand.  Rhyming slang has travelled far from its Cockney origins, and is
used by people who have never even been to London!  It was originally developed to enable crooks to speak to each other without being overheard
by outsiders, but nowadays people use it either as shorthand, or as a way to make conversation more colourful.  The reason it's difficult to
understand is that you take a phrase whose last word rhymes with the word you mean, then remove the rhyming word (so "mate" = "Dutch plate", so
saying "me ol' dutch" doesn't give any clues).  If you hear one you don't know, you need to cast around for possible rhymes that are relevant.  Or you
could just ignore it...  :-)

> That's one of the reason why I do not watch Eastenders :-)

There are *so many* reasons for not watching it!

Cheers me ol' china,  (there's more than one type of plate :-)


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2006 , 2007 only
- Today
- New search...