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'[OT] THREAD CLOSED: Official Comment and Pronounce'
2011\03\02@085808 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 07:28 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Why not?  Not bothering to find out how things are done and formulating a
> post properly is strongly disrespectful and therefore rude.  Everyone seems
> focused on whether or not we're being rude to newbies, but conveniently
> forgetting the fact that any exchange like that start with them being rude
> first.

Olin, I saw NOTHING rude in the OPs post, I saw someone obviously
unfamiliar with English, trying to get help from a bunch of people. What
I then saw was YOU attacking this person (a comment like "If you've got
a problem with something so basic, then a PIC temperature controller is
way over your head."). This is unacceptable. You are NOT supporting this
persons efforts, you are chastising them for asking for help. This is
NOT acceptable.

> That all said, despite the fact that the OP that started this incident was
> very rude from the start (not even bother to start sentences with a capital
> letter or end with a period, texting, refusing to answer simple direct
> questions),
OK Olin, this is enough. I don't believe it is reasonable to
automatically assume someone who "doesn't start sentences with a capital
letter or end with a period" is being RUDE. This is completely
unrealistic in a world where not everyone is an english major. "refusing
to answer simple direct questions"? Perhaps the person doesn't
UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE PERFECTLY?

This discussion is now done. You are NOT contributing anything
worthwhile to this thread. This thread is closed. If you continue on
this vein you will be put on moderation.

Thanks, TTYL

2011\03\02@095946 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> What
> I then saw was YOU attacking this person (a comment like "If you've got
> a problem with something so basic, then a PIC temperature controller is
> way over your head."). This is unacceptable.

Why on earth is such a comment unacceptable when it is basically true, and could potentially steer the OP towards a course that has more chance of success? (Like the two light bulbs, a relais, and a temperture sensor - who exactly suggested this??).

--
Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2011\03\02@103054 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 02/03/2011 14:59, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> What
>> I then saw was YOU attacking this person (a comment like "If you've got
>> a problem with something so basic, then a PIC temperature controller is
>> way over your head."). This is unacceptable.
> Why on earth is such a comment unacceptable when it is basically true,
> and could potentially steer the OP towards a course that has more chance
> of success? (Like the two light bulbs, a relais, and a temperture sensor
> - who exactly suggested this??).
>
Technically, almost always, Olin's replies on Technical issues are correct, informative, very educational and useful.

If that was all he posted he would be the best person on the list.

2011\03\02@113039 by Sergey Dryga

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face
Wouter van Ooijen <wouter <at> voti.nl> writes:

>
> > What
> > I then saw was YOU attacking this person (a comment like "If you've got
> > a problem with something so basic, then a PIC temperature controller is
> > way over your head."). This is unacceptable.
>
> Why on earth is such a comment unacceptable when it is basically true,
> and could potentially steer the OP towards a course that has more chance
> of success? (Like the two light bulbs, a relais, and a temperture sensor
> - who exactly suggested this??).
>
This comment is not acceptable because it actively discourages a person from
learning.  I often see this in young scientists in my lab, where they learn
through experimentation and making errors and troubleshooting.  Then, after
going through mistakes, troubleshooting, looking for answers in
books/internet/PICList etc., one truly "gets it" and becomes an expert.  Of
course there are several levels of experts (e.g. professional EE expert is way
different from hobby expert, if not in technical knowledge then in approach to
solving problems).

I can also relate a personal experience with that.  If I had just followed
advice above and did not start tinkering with PICs some 15 yr ago I would still
be doing relays and mercury switches.  What's fun in that?
I think one of the problems why people get all wound up about the way Olin
responds to newbies is that there are 2 sets of expectations:
1. In Olins's view (expressed by him more then once, if not in the same exact
words) everybody who is posting to the list should be (i) an electronics expert
with over 20 yr of experience, and have (ii) perfect English, (iii) complete
understanding of all PICList rules as interpreted by Olin, and (iv) just be
generally perfect.  By this standard even Olin himself is not perfect (e.g.
spelling could be better, and definitely misspellings are not excusable for such
a veteran PICLister who bashes other people about proper english?)

2. In admin's view people are not perfect. There should be an understanding that
people who join PICList have varying expertise and varying goals, some are
freshly minted EE, some just hobbyists trying to learn this how to make their
first robot/temp controller/LED blinky.  
The point I am trying to make: get people some slack.  Everybody has different
backgrounds.  If a person is rude in your opinion, ignore him/her and let admins
do their job and reprimand/correct that person.

With respect,

Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

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