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'[OT] Space fans'
2002\12\29@164637 by Dennis Crawley

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Check http://www.keo.org

I don't know if this is a real project or a kind of hoax to get
information... but I'd like to read that disk...

"End of year 2005, the satellite KEO will be launched into space. Some
50,000 years later it will return to Earth, intact, to offer our faraway,
future,distant great grandchildren, a collection of our messages destined
for them."


Dennis Crawley
Argentina

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2002\12\29@171951 by adam

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Yeah it really does sound like an awesome project.  IIRC one of the
early Voyager missions had an optical disk with sounds such as a baby
crying and water running on it (not sure about format, etc.).

It says in the FAQ that all comments will be released anonymously
(although they do say that you will be able to search by geographic
region and such).  What I really want to see are the symbolic
instructions to build a DVD player ('Contact,' anyone?)!

Adam Smith

> {Original Message removed}

2002\12\29@173251 by Jim Korman

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Dennis Crawley wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Cool. Its nice to have dreams.
Not to be a cynic but...Assuming that humankind keeps space travel
for even the next few thousand years, how long before someone
pulls that satellite out of orbit as a navigation hazard?

Jim

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2002\12\29@173912 by adam

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Good point.  I initially assumed that they were launching it our on a
return path back to earth (like an orbit around the solar system), but I
guess that costs would be prohibitive.

If they pulled it out of orbit they would, more than likely, find
another way to return it to Earth at the appropriate time (for example
maybe costs wouldn't be as prohibitive as they are now and they would be
able to launch it).

I guess I'm remaining optimistic.  As pointed out in the FAQ, though,
the main goal of the project is to bring together humanity now, with the
(fingers crossed) added benefit of doing the same 50k years down the
road.

Adam Smith

> Cool. Its nice to have dreams.
> Not to be a cynic but...Assuming that humankind keeps space travel
> for even the next few thousand years, how long before someone
> pulls that satellite out of orbit as a navigation hazard?
>
> Jim

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2002\12\30@065151 by Andy Kunz

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I imagine they will use an orbit similar to the one of the Saturn booster
that was recaptured by Earth recently.

I'm sure finding this satellite in the future would be tantamount to a
Rosetta Stone.  50K years is longer than the age of the universe.

Andy

At 04:38 PM 12/29/02 -0600, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\12\30@112946 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:51 AM 12/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I imagine they will use an orbit similar to the one of the Saturn booster
>that was recaptured by Earth recently.
>
>I'm sure finding this satellite in the future would be tantamount to a
>Rosetta Stone.  50K years is longer than the age of the universe.
>
>Andy

I think you are off by more than a few orders of magnitude there, the age of
the universe is more like 12.5 billion years, according to science. Peking
man is hundreds of thousands of years old.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2002\12\30@164740 by Andy Kunz

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>I think you are off by more than a few orders of magnitude there, the age of
>the universe is more like 12.5 billion years, according to science. Peking
>man is hundreds of thousands of years old.

I don't buy that.

Good thing this is an OT thread.

Andy

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2002\12\30@165818 by Grant Beattie

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----- Original Message -----
> >I think you are off by more than a few orders of magnitude there, the age
of
> >the universe is more like 12.5 billion years, according to science.
Peking
> >man is hundreds of thousands of years old.
>
> I don't buy that.
>
> Good thing this is an OT thread.
>
> Andy


What do you buy?  Maybe this information will help:

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#creacrit
or
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/age.html

GB

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'[OT] Space fans'
2003\01\02@070025 by Russell McMahon
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> >I imagine they will use an orbit similar to the one of the Saturn booster
> >that was recaptured by Earth recently.
> >I'm sure finding this satellite in the future would be tantamount to a
> >Rosetta Stone.  50K years is longer than the age of the universe.

> I think you are off by more than a few orders of magnitude there, the age
of
> the universe is more like 12.5 billion years, according to science. Peking
> man is hundreds of thousands of years old.

Even if you disregard the religious overtones of this discussion (which may
not be wise :-) ) you should tread carefully when establishing what
"Science" REALLY tells you. Science, as the art of gaining information by
observation, theorising, modelling, testing and iterating indefinitely, can
be very useful. Science as a bastion against needing to explain the
inexplicable, is too often just religion for scientists.

In the last century of so, the latest "known" age of the universe, from our
frame of reference, oscillates between about 10 and 20 billion years as
various theories come and go. Old galaxies older than the age of the
universe (should you believe current received knowledge) have occasionally
been discovered and subsequently fitted into the revised models. Most
inconvenient. Measurements have been made which suggest that light has
travelled at different speeds depending on its age (jury still out).
Implications for the  age of the universe are very significant.

Ignoring that, if you change your frame of reference the 15 +/- 5 million
year figure can be quite different. Something slightly less than a week (as
we measure time) is possible from some frames of reference. Why would you
choose our one for a definitive description? Why are others less valid than
ours?

Objects which travel AT the speed of light have no time experience, no
dimensionality and either infinite mass and energy if they have rest mass or
zero rest mass if they do not have infinite energy at light speed. Photons,
of which everything else can be made (it seems) if you do the right thing at
the right time, have zero rest mass and ALWAYS travel at the speed of light.
They therefore NEVER experience time, have no dimensions of length and are
ALL essentially motionless in the same place always as far as they are
"concerned". Ask any photon and it will tell you that the universe may be
transited instantaneously and has no size and is timeless (but that they
have trouble doing it as there is no space or time available for them to do
it in.)

Ignoring all this. do note that many of the dating methods that are used are
circular in nature (this must be this old because it occurs here, and things
occurring here are always xxx old) or make assumptions which may seem more
or less sound but which are unproveable. Samples from recently living
creatures have been dated at thousands of years old. There are any number of
examples of carbon dating which show that, while it may be useful, it can be
dangerously in error and produce utterly nonsense results. Other "reliable &
foundational" methods often require a priori information to help them out
and in their absence can produce amusing results. Lava laid down in recent
eruptions here has been dated at millions of years old.

And more ..............

By all means lets use "Science" to inform our lives but be very ware of the
straight jackets we can end up in if we take as holy writ that which neither
claims such status for itself or deserves it. The history of plate tectonics
is an excellent example of received scientific "fact" being in fact just
"religion for scientists" whose thoroughly wrong ideas took decades to
eradicate.



               Russell McMahon

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2003\01\02@112052 by Sean H. Breheny

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Excellent post, Russell!

Sean

At 12:57 AM 1/3/2003 +1300, you wrote:

>Even if you disregard the religious overtones of this discussion (which may
>not be wise :-) ) you should tread carefully when establishing what
>"Science" REALLY tells you. Science, as the art of gaining information by
>observation, theorising, modelling, testing and iterating indefinitely, can
>be very useful. Science as a bastion against needing to explain the
>inexplicable, is too often just religion for scientists.
[snip]

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