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'[OT] Shipping outside the US'
2006\01\14@110153 by olin piclist

face picon face
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> The main points, as far as I've
> found out are :
>
> 1. I explain that I *only* pay using founds on my PayPal
>    acount. Never "CC-founded", that I know that most
>    US based sellers conciders as a potential (intl.) problem.
>
> 2. I ask them to check my excellent 100% positive 3 year
>    old eBay feedback. :-)
>
> 3. I clearly state that I take the full risk of loosing
>    something in the mail. I've so far not lost anything,
>    either using airmail or surface mail.

Another reluctance may be that it's much more a pain in the butt to send
something outside the country than domestic.  For domestic priority mail I
can use the click and ship feature of the USPS web site.  That means I can
print a shipping label and pay for postage on line, then just dump the
package at the post office without standing in line.  Click and ship never
seems to work right for international shipments.  I have to go to the post
office, stand in line, fill out both addresses by hand 3 times, customs
information, etc.  Some folks may have concluded it's just not worth it, or
would have to charge too much shipping if they include their full cost,
including time and hassle at the post office.

Unfortunately I don't know of a good answer.  I now print both addresses
three times on small labels in the office which I can just stick to the
forms at the post office, but it took me a while to think of that and get
used to doing it.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\14@134923 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Olin wrote:
> Another reluctance may be that it's much more a pain in the butt to send
> something outside the country than domestic.  For domestic priority mail I
> can use the click and ship feature of the USPS web site.

You may want to try USPS Shipping Assistant. IMHO, it's more user-friendly
than their web-based version, and has some extra useful features.

> That means I can
> print a shipping label and pay for postage on line, then just dump the
> package at the post office without standing in line.  Click and ship never
> seems to work right for international shipments.

We've been using Click-and-Ship for over four years now, it definitely beats
filling out the forms by hand.

> I have to go to the post
> office, stand in line, fill out both addresses by hand 3 times, customs
> information, etc.  Some folks may have concluded it's just not worth it,
> or
> would have to charge too much shipping if they include their full cost,
> including time and hassle at the post office.

You can always hire someone to drop the packages at the post office for you.
:-) Of course, you would have to be sending a lot of international packages
in order to justify that. It works for us because roughly half of our orders
come from outside the US.

<RANT>
<DISCLAIMER>
The following rant has been modified from its original version. It has been
formatted to fit your screen and edited to run in the time allotted and for
content.
</DISCLAIMER>
I think it's time for the government to privatize USPS. Their whole
philosophy seems to be anti-small business, it is wasteful and suppresses
innovation.

For example, our local PO used to have a window just for business customers.
That lasted for about two weeks, then the policy was reversed, supposedly
because it was unfair to 'regular' customers.
</RANT>

> Unfortunately I don't know of a good answer.  I now print both addresses
> three times on small labels in the office which I can just stick to the
> forms at the post office, but it took me a while to think of that and get
> used to doing it.

Try the website again, maybe you'll like it. The latest version incorporates
the Customs form into the shipping label.

HINT: In order to use both USPS Shipping Assistant and Click-n-Ship, follow
this procedure:

1. Completely uninstall any Adobe Acrobat products you have on your system.
Clean the registry, too.
2. Install Acrobat Reader 7.0.
3. Install Acrobat Reader 5.0

The order in which the steps are performed is essential. If you install 7.0
over 5.0, USPS SA refuses to work. If you don't install 7.0 over 5.0, you
can't use the website.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\01\14@143558 by olin piclist

face picon face
Vitaliy wrote:
> You can always hire someone to drop the packages at the post office
> for you. :-)

Good idea, I'll get the mail room lackey to do it.  Oh, wait, that's me.

> Try the website again, maybe you'll like it. The latest version
> incorporates the Customs form into the shipping label.

I didn't realize that Shipping Assistant was different from Click and Ship.
Geesh, they really don't make that clear.  I'll have to look at it again in
more detail.

> The order in which the steps are performed is essential. If you
> install 7.0 over 5.0, USPS SA refuses to work. If you don't install
> 7.0 over 5.0, you can't use the website.

Yucc.  You have to use the *old* version!!!?  I had a problem with Click and
Ship and fixed it by uninstalling and re-installing Acrobat Reader.  I also
have full Acrobat installed, although I don't know if it makes difference.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\14@150255 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Another reluctance may be that it's much more a pain in the
> butt to send something outside the country than domestic.

I am truely amazed how difficult this is for US residents. Can't you
just drop a letter to overeseas in a mailbox? In my country a mailbox
will accept 'letters' up to 30 mm, so the majority of my packages can be
posted this way. Even when I have a package that does not fit I can put
on the stamps and drop it off at the postoffice, without standing in
line. There are some exceptions, like postman-payed, conformation of
receipt, etc, but I can do almost all packages I sent (~2000 last year)
without standing in line. I can even order new stamps over internet :)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\14@192745 by VULCAN20

picon face
Ever since the 911 terrorist attack and other mysterious white powder
incidents it is required that any package over 1 pound has to be given
to a desk clerk. so they know who is sending the package.  I was told
that some post office counters have surveillance cameras. this records
who mailed what.  When we use Clic-n-ship the mail clerks recognize us
and we just set it on the counter and leave.  But if  they do not
recognize you you have to wait in line and hand them the package.

John

Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2006\01\14@202718 by R. I. Nelson

picon face
part 0 44 bytes
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If you have a mail carrier deliver to your place, use clic n ship and
priority mail.  the Post Office will pick up the the packages free.  
Thats what the local post office tells me here.  The even have a place
on the clic n ship site to request a pick.  But if you have them pick up
at a different time  then normal delivery they charge you a rather large
fee.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

{Quote hidden}


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adr:;;P.O. BOX 373;RIPON;WI;54971;USA
email;internet:spam_OUTrindesignsTakeThisOuTspamcharter.net
tel;work:1-(920)-229-7152
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       AUTOCAD work ver2002
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2006\01\15@031157 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Ever since the 911 terrorist attack and other mysterious white powder
> incidents it is required that any package over 1 pound has to
> be given to a desk clerk.

Google says 1 pound =  453g. I don't think a single progger (what Olin
would typically send) will be over that limit. 95% of what I send (in
package count, not in value) is below that weight.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\15@043657 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Olin wrote:
> Good idea, I'll get the mail room lackey to do it.  Oh, wait, that's me.

:-)

Our company is small, but we ship enough international packages to justify
the cost of paying someone to wait in line at the post office. If most of
our orders were domestic, it would probably make more sense to use UPS or
FedEx.

>> Try the website again, maybe you'll like it. The latest version
>> incorporates the Customs form into the shipping label.
>
> I didn't realize that Shipping Assistant was different from Click and
> Ship.
> Geesh, they really don't make that clear.  I'll have to look at it again
> in
> more detail.

That's USPS for you.

>> The order in which the steps are performed is essential. If you
>> install 7.0 over 5.0, USPS SA refuses to work. If you don't install
>> 7.0 over 5.0, you can't use the website.
>
> Yucc.  You have to use the *old* version!!!?  I had a problem with Click
> and
> Ship and fixed it by uninstalling and re-installing Acrobat Reader.  I
> also
> have full Acrobat installed, although I don't know if it makes difference.

I'm sorry, the last sentence in my reply should have read:

"If you don't install 7.0, you can't use the website."

At work, we first install Acrobat Reader 7.0, then install Acrobat 5.0 (full
version) over it.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\01\15@143024 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> Another reluctance may be that it's much more a pain in the
>> butt to send something outside the country than domestic.
>
> I am truely amazed how difficult this is for US residents. Can't you
> just drop a letter to overeseas in a mailbox?

I think Olin wants proof of mailing. You can't get that when dropping in a
mailbox, can you?

Gerhard

2006\01\15@145236 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I think Olin wants proof of mailing. You can't get that when
> dropping in a mailbox, can you?

No, but his complaint was that mailing overseas is so much more work
than mailing domestic. If he wanst proof, why for non-domestic only?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\15@160852 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> > Another reluctance may be that it's much more a pain in the butt to
> > send something outside the country than domestic.
>
> I am truely amazed how difficult this is for US residents.
> Can't you just drop a letter to overeseas in a mailbox? In my
> country a mailbox will accept 'letters' up to 30 mm, so the
> majority of my packages can be posted this way. Even when I
> have a package that does not fit I can put on the stamps and
> drop it off at the postoffice, without standing in line.
> There are some exceptions, like postman-payed, conformation
> of receipt, etc, but I can do almost all packages I sent
> (~2000 last year) without standing in line. I can even order
> new stamps over internet :)

I wasn't going to reply on this thread but, I just can't keep shut about
this.

YES! The USPS /SUCKS/ when it comes to shipping outside the USA. PayPal has
now made it /somewhat/ easy to ship things by printing the triplicate copies
of the customs forms for you along with the postage / address / etc...

However, that only works for global air, priority or express service. In a
perfect world, that would be just fine, but this isn't. I can't being to
tell you the number of shipments that have been "lost" either at the
receiving end or in customs. I firmly believe that the customs services of
some countries are crooked as a dogs hind leg. Or they are being used as an
excuse to rip me of, but I don't believe that so many different buyers could
be crooked; it's the customs service or local postal people.

The only way I have found to reliably get a package to a person outside the
USA is to send it via registered mail. That way, the customs agent at the
other end has to sign for the package from the US postal service and if it
is lost, the resulting investigation has a target for the finger to point
at, so to speak. I've NEVER had a registered mail package "lost" or
contested in any way.

The problem with registered is that the US postal service takes it so
seriously that they require I hand it to them. I can't just drop it in the
mail. So there I am, standing in line...

What I need is a shipping system where a specific person on the other end
has to sign for it when it leaves the USA, but where I can just drop off the
package here.

I've tried the PayPal / Global Priority mail system recently for low dollar
value shipments and sure enough, I have a "lost" package to a guy in Brazil.
And he is emailing every day, wanting to know where his stuff is... I'm
going to refund him and loose the item rather than resend it, which will not
make him happy, but I just can't send good product after bad, and PayPal
will be satisfied.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam@spam@piclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\01\15@163545 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> The only way I have found to reliably get a package to a
> person outside the USA is to send it via registered mail.

What are youre loss figures? I think I lose about 1:500, and I see no
releation bwteen losses and destination. But the vast majority of my
shipments is domestic, and most of the rest is Europe and USA. Funny
though (not realy funny) is that I lost 1 *tracked* *domestic* shipment.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\15@205924 by mercies

face
flavicon
face
part 1 4042 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=TIS-620 (unknown type 8bit not decoded)

Interesting ... I receive packages (USPS) quite often from the states and unless
there has been a declared value of $100 or more they don't even have the customs
tag attached!  On this end they go directly into my postal box.  Packages from
companies do have the formalities, such as when I have ordered pic development
boards.  However, I have to make it very clear that I will refuse any courier
shipments such as UPS and FedX.  Those carriers will cost me as much as $150 for
customs to open up even a zero-tax invoice.  Shipments from USPS rarely even go
to customs, but when they do the tax, if any is precalculated, taxes are
reasonable and no extra fees.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

Quoting "James Newton, Host" <jamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com>:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\01\16@072757 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> Google says 1 pound =  453g. I don't think a single progger (what Olin
> would typically send) will be over that limit. 95% of what I send (in
> package count, not in value) is below that weight.

A standard ProProg package is 1 pound 2 ounces.  Most of the weight comes
from the wall wart and the serial cable.  The board and packaging are rather
light.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\16@073055 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> The only way I have found to reliably get a package to a
>> person outside the USA is to send it via registered mail.
>
> What are youre loss figures? I think I lose about 1:500, and I see no
> releation bwteen losses and destination.

Not sure about other destinations, but my personal figure for
non-registered packages to Brazil is poor. (About 1:10, but not with any
statistical confidence to speak of :)

And I agree with James in that (in this case Brazilian) customs seems to be
the trouble spot.

One thing the USPS (and similar agencies in other countries) could start
doing is to provide the possibility to drop a package with a certain
printed barcode (from a web interface or so) that then gets tracked. Of
course you don't have a proof of mailing /before/ the first tracking point,
but if that first tracking point is when the package gets first seen by the
postal service, this may be acceptable. And after that first tracking
point, all is just as tracked and proven as if it was handed over
personally -- especially the problematic way through any customs agency.

Gerhard

2006\01\16@074358 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:28:47 -0500, you wrote:

>Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> Google says 1 pound =  453g. I don't think a single progger (what Olin
>> would typically send) will be over that limit. 95% of what I send (in
>> package count, not in value) is below that weight.
>
>A standard ProProg package is 1 pound 2 ounces.  Most of the weight comes
>from the wall wart and the serial cable.  The board and packaging are rather
>light.
>

For overseas users it probably makes more sense to let them source a wall-wart locally as the plug
type and voltage will often be different.

2006\01\16@075358 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> No, but his complaint was that mailing overseas is so much more work
> than mailing domestic. If he wanst proof, why for non-domestic only?

I want it for both.  Click and Ship gives it to me easily for domestic.
Delivery confirmation is added for no cost if you use Click and Ship, and
signature confirmation is only a little extra.  Getting the equivalent for
international shipments requires sending it certified.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\16@075535 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> One thing the USPS (and similar agencies in other countries)
> could start
> doing is to provide the possibility to drop a package with a certain
> printed barcode (from a web interface or so) that then gets
> tracked. Of
> course you don't have a proof of mailing /before/ the first
> tracking point,
> but if that first tracking point is when the package gets
> first seen by the
> postal service, this may be acceptable. And after that first tracking
> point, all is just as tracked and proven as if it was handed over
> personally -- especially the problematic way through any
> customs agency.

For docemstic packages up to I buy sticker-stamps at the post office.
These are two-part, and include a barcode on each part. The part for the
package is affixed, and at the postoffice I just trop it on the desk (no
waiting inline). The postoffice scans the barcode and provides tracking
information on a website. The other part is for me, I copy the address
to it and stuff it away for my adminisatrtion. If I wanted to avoid this
I could print an extra copy of the address, or use a barcode scanner. In
that case I could even email the barcode to the customer.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\16@075535 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> > Google says 1 pound =  453g. I don't think a single progger
> (what Olin
> > would typically send) will be over that limit. 95% of what
> I send (in
> > package count, not in value) is below that weight.
>
> A standard ProProg package is 1 pound 2 ounces.  Most of the
> weight comes
> from the wall wart and the serial cable.  The board and
> packaging are rather
> light.

But when sending overseas I assume you don't send the wallwart? It would
be of no use in a 230V country.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\16@080430 by olin piclist

face picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> What I need is a shipping system where a specific person on the other
> end has to sign for it when it leaves the USA, but where I can just
> drop off the package here.

Yes, exactly!  Now if we could only make you the postmaster general...

> I've tried the PayPal / Global Priority mail system recently for low
> dollar value shipments and sure enough, I have a "lost" package to a
> guy in Brazil.

South America seems to be even worse than Africa.  Apparently everyone from
the lowest worker to the highest inspector is on the take down there.
Government of the army, by the army, and for the persuit of profit.

You can't trust the mail in any country where the leader is addressed
"Generalissimo".  Apparently that's even worse than "Your highness" and
"Comrade".


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\16@082156 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I want it for both.  Click and Ship gives it to me easily for
> domestic.

OK, I see. I don't use confirmation or tracking on the 'basic' packages
I sent. It would add too much to the cost, and the loss rate is
acceptable (up to now).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\16@083052 by olin piclist

face picon face
Mike Harrison wrote:
> For overseas users it probably makes more sense to let them source a
> wall-wart locally as the plug type and voltage will often be different.

Probably true, but then I'd have to have different product options matrixed
for different shipping destinations.  I do this for the EasyProg, but it's
not worth it for the ProProg.  I sell that for $300 and get the wall wart
for around $1.25.  It's cheaper to always include it than to figure out when
not to.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\16@085826 by Mark Jordan

flavicon
face
On 16 Jan 2006 at 8:05, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> You can't trust the mail in any country where the leader is addressed
> "Generalissimo".  Apparently that's even worse than "Your highness" and
> "Comrade".
>

       Include "lula" on your list...  ;-\

       Mark Jordan


2006\01\16@115623 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> I've tried the PayPal / Global Priority mail system recently for low
> dollar
> value shipments and sure enough, I have a "lost" package to a guy in
> Brazil.
> And he is emailing every day, wanting to know where his stuff is... I'm
> going to refund him and loose the item rather than resend it, which will
> not
> make him happy, but I just can't send good product after bad, and PayPal
> will be satisfied.

When this happens, I usually tell the customer that we will resend the item,
as long as he/she pays for Global Express. This makes the most sense -- you
don't lose as much money, and you keep the customer happy.

We lost a few Airmail and Global Priority packages, but we've never actually
lost a Global Express package. Sometimes it takes three months to get back a
package marked "no such address", but it does come back eventually.

> What are youre loss figures? I think I lose about 1:500, and I see no
> releation bwteen losses and destination.

Ours is about 1:1000, and half of our orders are international (mostly from
Europe).

As far as relationship b/w loss rate and destination: we've never lost a
package in the UK, however we lost several in Hungary, and a few in Latin
America. The number of orders from UK is far greater than the number of
orders from Hungary.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\01\16@122303 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> > What are youre loss figures? I think I lose about 1:500,
> and I see no
> > releation bwteen losses and destination.
>
> Ours is about 1:1000, and half of our orders are
> international (mostly from Europe).

That is roughly the same figure.

> As far as relationship b/w loss rate and destination: we've
> never lost a
> package in the UK, however we lost several in Hungary, and a
> few in Latin
> America. The number of orders from UK is far greater than the
> number of orders from Hungary.

Curious things do happen. One customer complained that he did not
receive anything, so I sent it again and he got it. 3 months later ge
received the original package and returned it to me.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\16@142221 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
Olin wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Shipping outside the US' on Mon, Jan 16 at 12:38:
> I sell that for $300 and get the wall wart for around $1.25.  It's
> cheaper to always include it than to figure out when not to.

On a related note, I sold a cordless drill with a bad battery on eBay
a month or so ago.  In the auction, I mentioned that I wasn't going to
include the bad battery due to the shipping cost increase.  When I
went to ship it, I noticed that the shipping fee was about 5 cents
below that of the flat-rate box, so I went ahead and threw the battery
in the box and paid the extra 5 cents, figuring that they might forget
the model number of the battery otherwise, and the flat-rate box was a
better fit anyway.  She left me bad feedback and filed a complaint
with PayPal accusing me of excessively charging for shipping (and for
a "item not as advertised" because the drill - with the advertised bad
battery - didn't work, but that's not relevant here).

That's just the first thing I thought of when I saw "throw it in
either way"...

--Danny, who should be getting back to work

2006\01\16@144541 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> South America seems to be even worse than Africa.  Apparently everyone
> from the lowest worker to the highest inspector is on the take down
> there.

While this may be true (and in any case is difficult to contest :) ...

> Government of the army, by the army, and for the persuit of profit.
>
> You can't trust the mail in any country where the leader is addressed
> "Generalissimo".  

... I'm not sure where this comes from. It's been a while now for most
countries... Where have you been? :)

And in any case, for whatever bad the military dictatorships here did, it
doesn't seem that corruption or inefficient administration started with
them, or ended with them.

Gerhard

2006\01\16@173429 by Peter

picon face


On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> Google says 1 pound =  453g. I don't think a single progger (what Olin
>> would typically send) will be over that limit. 95% of what I send (in
>> package count, not in value) is below that weight.
>
> A standard ProProg package is 1 pound 2 ounces.  Most of the weight comes
> from the wall wart and the serial cable.  The board and packaging are rather
> light.

Why do you ship a wall wart ?

Peter

2006\01\16@174545 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 00:34 +0200, Peter wrote:
> > A standard ProProg package is 1 pound 2 ounces.  Most of the weight comes
> > from the wall wart and the serial cable.  The board and packaging are rather
> > light.
>
> Why do you ship a wall wart ?

Probably because buying something, getting it home and discovering that
"wall wart is not included" is even worse then "batteries are not
included".

Personally, if I were to spend that kind of money on something, and NOT
be able to just "plug it in", I'd be rather ticked off.

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\01\17@134730 by Peter

picon face


On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Herbert Graf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

There is brisk business going on with adapters and foreign voltage
plugs. Most of the brisk business consists in repair requests for wall
warts and worse, *after* the foreign adapter set was tried out and let
the smoke out.

Peter

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