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'[OT] Sales weirdness question'
1998\12\14@004206 by Mark Willis

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Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.

 Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
of that behavior - "We know how much it costs, but will not tell you, ha
ha ha ha!" (Darn near, so I'm exaggerating - shoot me! <G>).
Competitors can find out easily enough through asking;  the people this
(IMHO Stupid!) behavior hurts most are the companies that practice it (I
quite often just effectively boycott them, as a waste of my time.)

 Does this (IMHO Quite Obnoxious!) behavior bother as many other folks
as it does me?

 I'll give you a worst case example of why it bothers me - in addition
to being obnoxious - I called one company to ask for a price on one
piece of software, as asking was the only way I could find a price.
Turned out their price was about 2-3 times the competitions' price, so
the boss at the company I was helping bought their competitors' product.

 Every week from then on, "Kelley" from that company would call me, at
work (or at home if I was telecommuting at the time,) and ask me if I
was ready to purchase their product yet.  I told her, each time, NO, my
boss would call her when & if we were ready to purchase.  This crazy
woman kept calling me <G>  It's hard for software work to get done when
on the phone telling someone to quit calling me!

 Now, multiply this by 30 companies you call in a month average on some
quick contracts, and you have a GOOD reason why I so often let my
voicemail get the phone - so I can get things done here...

 (I'm not saying that I'll hold a company to an EXACT price they show
on the web, but if you might want to buy something I made, wouldn't it
make a big difference to you whether a $20 part was priced at $19.95, or
at $57.95, on December 1st of this year?  A ballpark number is
beautiful, so long as it's labelled as such.  You'd know to deal with
the $19.95 ballpark company, unless you had a *good* reason to do
otherwise, all other things being equal.  And maybe the prices would've
changed to $21.50 and $43.95, by the 20th - No biggie <G>)

 Does anyone comprehend this noxious behavior?  I know salesfolks like
"sales leads" but I'd think they would understand that someone who says
they're just putting an estimate for a possible contract, isn't someone
who needs pressure to buy - more like actual facts & a quick price &
then left the heck alone so they still want to deal with you by the time
the contract actually happens, if ever!  <G>

 Mark, spam_OUTmwillisTakeThisOuTspamnwlink.com

1998\12\14@010903 by James Cameron

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Mark Willis wrote:
> Does anyone comprehend this noxious behavior?

If we did we would not be here.

Some companies use the trick to give different prices to different
customers.

Some fear that a price on a web page becomes outdated too quickly, and
may be interpreted as a quote rather than an invitation to treat.

Some just could not be bothered with the effort involved in updating a
web page ... people who don't know how often have to buy time from
consultants who end up editing the text with a plain text editor.

Take action;

       - "I didn't ask for a prices from your company because I was
          able to get your prices from someone else"

       - "... because your competitor had their prices on their web
          page"

--
James Cameron                                      (.....cameronKILLspamspam@spam@stl.dec.com)

OpenVMS, Linux, Firewalls, Software Engineering, CGI, HTTP, X, C, FORTH,
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"Specialisation is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein.

1998\12\14@010912 by Tjaart van der Walt

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Mark Willis wrote:
>
> Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.
>
>   Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
> for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
> of that behavior - "We know how much it costs, but will not tell you, ha
> ha ha ha!" (Darn near, so I'm exaggerating - shoot me! <G>).
> Competitors can find out easily enough through asking;  the people this
> (IMHO Stupid!) behavior hurts most are the companies that practice it (I
> quite often just effectively boycott them, as a waste of my time.)
>
>   Does this (IMHO Quite Obnoxious!) behavior bother as many other folks
> as it does me?

I guess I am also guilty of this 'obnoxious' behaviour.
The truth is, not only don't I know what our products sell
for, but I actually don't care. I have a fair idea
(ballpark), but rather than getting anyone's hopes up (or
down) I always direct them to the person who calculated
the price to start with. No two customers are the same,
and every one want an extra this, or without that.

I think you are just pissed with this woman phoning you.
I am usually very rude to high pressure sales people myself.
If it doesn't put them off, them at least I can let off a
bit of steam.

--
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1998\12\14@014940 by Glenville T. Sawyer

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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Willis <EraseMEmwillisspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTNWLINK.COM>
To: PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 16:12
Subject: [OT] Sales weirdness question


Mark Willis wrote IN PART ...


>Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.
>  Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
>for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
>of that behavior - "We know how much it costs, but will not tell you, ha
>ha ha ha!" (Darn near, so I'm exaggerating - shoot me! <G>).
>Competitors can find out easily enough through asking;  the people this
>(IMHO Stupid!) behavior hurts most are the companies that practice it (I
>quite often just effectively boycott them, as a waste of my time.)


  In the case of software Mark, I agree with you, in the Raw Component
field
I must admit that life is a little harder, if a manufacturer put a price up
on the web of (say)
$15.00 per unit, then they should include a disclaimer " Contact our Sales
Staff
for Volume / Quantity pricing", the other "out" is that SOME products are
indeed market driven
and affected by fluctuations in international money market trends, although
I STILL
FAIL to ACCEPT that IF a product is already held IN STOCK, then the pricing
should
be retained, where an awfull LOT of companies change their pricing to
reflect what the
NEXT SHIPMENT sales price will be.

Just a thought !



P.S I also hate the time wasting involved in "ready to purchase" phone
calls
- often I will tell the caller that the "decision maker" of the company had
decided
upon a competitors product, and outline the fact that the competitor did not
make the employees feel under pressure, SOMETIMES "they" get the hint !


Regards,
                 Glenville T. Sawyer

South Australia.

1998\12\14@031525 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
   for all pricing queries" is a good idea?

This equates to "let's make a deal."  If you're the kind of customer they
really like, then they'll talk interesting terms, but meanwhile they don't
want to scare anyone away based on small quantity prices.  Occasionally you
see "less than $0.50 in quantities of 500000", which is equally meaningless;
does that mean you have to buy 500k at one time?  Over one year?  Over the
life of your product?  Is that AFTER the new fab gets built, or is
there already capacity to provide that flow rate of parts...

Yeah, it's annoying.  Expensive for the company, too.  Lack of ANY pricing
info on a website recently caused me to request catalog/etc, costing them
several dollars to print/send/followup on.  Then I discovered that the parts
were a decimal ORDER OF MAGNITUDE too expensive to be interesting.

(and this is one reason why I bought a Saturn last time I needed a new car.)


   [obnoxious salespeople.]

Yeah.  Well, some (most) are paid on commission, ya know.  It's entertaining
that I now have to fend off salescritters with comments "I am not in a
position at cisco that would make a buy decision on this product.  I'm just
interested in the technology..."  :-)


   I'm not saying that I'll hold a company to an EXACT price they show on
   the web, but if you might want to buy something I made, wouldn't it
   make a big difference to you whether a $20 part was priced at $19.95,
   or at $57.95, on December 1st of this year?

Price ranges of 3 to 1 or more depending on quantity aren't uncommon, as
you can discover from those vendors that do have detailed pricing info.  I
suspect the web is great stuff for manufacturers, and pretty scary for
salescritters!

BillW

1998\12\14@041628 by g.daniel.invent.design

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Mark Willis wrote:
>
> Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.
>
>   Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
> for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
> of that behavior - "We know how much it costs, but will not tell you, ha
> ha ha ha!"

1) they have sales people and want to "get real friendly"

2) they don't want to publicise their prices as this can be used against
them by the competition.

3) they want to see your face when they give some tentative figures to
re-target a sales "close".

regards,
Graham Daniel.

1998\12\14@044537 by Osama ALASSIRY

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At 05:57 14/12/98 , you wrote:
>Mark Willis wrote:
>> Does anyone comprehend this noxious behavior?
>
>If we did we would not be here.
>
>Some companies use the trick to give different prices to different
>customers.

happened to me once, ...

a company gave a price of US$999.95 + shipping when a friend inquired by
using his "@qatar.net.qa" email, and he said he was from Qatar. when I
emailed them later using my "@alassiry.com" email, the price was $149.95 +
shipping

;)

_____________________________________________________
Osama ALASSIRY  KILLspamosamaKILLspamspamqatar.net.qa RemoveMEosamaTakeThisOuTspamalassiry.com
                             http://www.alassiry.com

1998\12\14@062735 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

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On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 09:41:03PM -0800, Mark Willis wrote:
>
>   Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
> for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance

Speaking on behalf of a company that _does_ publish prices on our Web page
(but generally does not in press advertising) I can perhaps shed some light
on the reasons why some companies are reluctant to publish prices.

Firstly, from my own experience, those companies who will only reveal prices
if you contact them directly are usually concerned the price will put off
prospective purchasers - i.e. the company itself thinks their prices are too
high. These are usually the same companies that employ sales staff to do
cold calling, and will follow up an unresponsive prospect repeatedly. Their
sales model demands high prices.

Not putting prices in press advertising is common, and usually because a printed
ad can hang around a long time, and become outdated. There's no such justificati
on
for not putting prices on a web site. It can be updated instantly (well, nearly)
if prices change.

There are some companies who will quote a price depending on what they
think the particular customer will pay. This is justifiable if what they
are selling is tailored to the customer (e.g. consulting) but not, IMHO, when
it's an off-the-shelf product. To be fair, I have only rarely encountered this
tactic.

In general, trying to conceal information from your customers is a Bad Idea - it
doesn't work and it can only create ill-will.


--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs               |            HI-TECH Software
Email: spamBeGoneclydespamBeGonespamhtsoft.com          |          Phone            Fax
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PGP:   finger TakeThisOuTclydeEraseMEspamspam_OUThtsoft.com   | AUS: +61 7 3355 8333 +61 7 3355 8334
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1998\12\14@064558 by keithh

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They do this so they can do face-to-face haggling.

I'm currently shopping around for VF displays,
and what I will use depends on how much it costs.

So it ticks me off that I have to phone up for
the price of every damn part they have.

Mainly they say it's so their competitors can't
monitor their prices, but this is easily done by
pretending to be a potential customer.

I reckon they're all descended from shifty-eyed
camel dealers, via used-car salesmen...

1998\12\14@070830 by Ken Johnson

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I went into an electrical white-goods shop once that used to advertise
heavily on radio how good their prices and service was- there wasn't a price
on ANY item in the (large) store. All the sales people carried round a large
(132 column paper) listing of prices. The only way to get a price was to ask
a saleperson- needless to say our stay in the shop was brief and there was
never a return trip! If they can't declare their prices openly for me to
browse without a sales person "hovering", they just don't get me as a
customer.

Cheers, Ken, RemoveMEvk7krjspamTakeThisOuTsouthcom.com.au


>Mark Willis wrote:
>>
>> Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.
>>
>>   Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
>> for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
>> of that behavior -

1998\12\14@090527 by Reginald Neale

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>  (I'm not saying that I'll hold a company to an EXACT price they show
>on the web, but if you might want to buy something I made, wouldn't it
>make a big difference to you whether a $20 part was priced at $19.95, or
>at $57.95, on December 1st of this year?  A ballpark number is
>beautiful, so long as it's labelled as such.  You'd know to deal with
>the $19.95 ballpark company, unless you had a *good* reason to do
>otherwise, all other things being equal.  And maybe the prices would've
>changed to $21.50 and $43.95, by the 20th - No biggie <G>)

Yea Mark. One of my pet peeves also. Very often you just want to calculate
whether a particular design direction is worth following, and it mostly
depends on whether the price of a certain part is 50 cents or 5 dollars. If
the mfr is unwilling to give straight answers about pricing, forget it.
Being cozy with pricing info just implies they'll gouge you as deep as they
think they can get away with.

Reg Neale

1998\12\14@115004 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
The bottom line of the two kinds of company policies (fixed price and
negotiated <- notice how it's called acc. to my books) is the following:

- A large company that operates on a prospected market and sells volume
can afford and usually does use a fixed price (with some elasticity built
in - i.e. quantity discounts).

- A small company that operates on an unknown low volume market and does
not sell volume, usually sells by negotiated price. The bonus is 'more
flexibility'. The price of this flexibility is usually enormous (in $$)
in the end.

Both methods have pros and cons. The 2nd (the one you do not like),
emphasizes a 'personal' contact, more possibilities for later direct
marketing (your Kelley), and requires less PR, advertising and mail-out
money. It is unusable from the moment when they start selling more than a
few 100's of something, unless they franchise out the representative
network, and build a distribution tree. imho this kind of marketing is
going to die with Internet commerce catching on. Customers have too many
options with fixed price companies, to even bother with an email enquiry
to a 'negotiating' web site. As you have discovered, Mark, negotiating
means person-to-person contact, and seeking it if it is absent (Kelley).
The people who do this, are on sales/franchise bonuses and they won't let
go. Why don't you tell her what happened ? BTW you could have haggled
imho ;)

The 1st is the way to go for impersonal over the shelf products with
reasonable sales volume (i.e. make it and forget it - also applies for
things like electronic kit projects which all fall into about the same
'category', even if you make about 5 a year). It is associated with
respectable initial PR and advertising costs and near zero thereafter.
When a product is no longer selling more PR is invested to revive it or it
is removed from the offer. This is the best way imho, including for online
shopping, and is extremely easy to set up and maintain assuming one uses a
WWW provider with e-commerce support. Most online shops (that do not close
down soon after opening) work like this afaik.

hope this helps (memories from marketing courses),

Peter

1998\12\14@121512 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Ken Johnson wrote:

> I went into an electrical white-goods shop once that used to advertise
> heavily on radio how good their prices and service was- there wasn't a price
> on ANY item in the (large) store. All the sales people carried round a large
> (132 column paper) listing of prices. The only way to get a price was to ask
> a saleperson- needless to say our stay in the shop was brief and there was
> never a return trip! If they can't declare their prices openly for me to
> browse without a sales person "hovering", they just don't get me as a
> customer.

FYI this problem was so bad here (in Israel) until recently, that a law
had to be passed to oblige shop-owners to put a price on each and every
item on display. This goes from groceries to cars etc.

Most catalogs of imported goods have an Israeli edition where the little
dotted line that leads to the price ends in a blank space (they are really
printed like this !). This is now illegal afaik. A good thing imho ;)

Peter

1998\12\14@122552 by Engineering Department

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<Mark Willis observes in part>


>Something I just do not understand the insanity of, here.
>
>  Why do so many companies think that posting "Contact our sales staff
>for all pricing queries" is a good idea?  I detest the power imbalance
>of that behavior - "We know how much it costs, but will not tell you, ha
>ha ha ha!" (Darn near, so I'm exaggerating - shoot me! <G>).
>Competitors can find out easily enough through asking;  the people this
>(IMHO Stupid!) behavior hurts most are the companies that practice it (I
>quite often just effectively boycott them, as a waste of my time.)
>
>  Does this (IMHO Quite Obnoxious!) behavior bother as many other folks
>as it does me?
>


Sign me up on this.  Particularly when it comes to components.  One outfit
quoted US$34 for a specialty IC in 100's.  I bitched because they'd sold me
three for US$22 each when I was prototyping.  The sales person says "Oh OK,
how about $18 each in 100's."   It wasn't an error, the guy was clearly just
wheeling and dealing --Sheesh.

Or how about the guy who wanted to surplus Zilog chips (no idea if they were
rejects or what) from an old manufacturing lot, for more than factory fresh!
He got the idea (correctly) that we would have preferred the older
manufacturing date, but missed the point that we could also change our
design to accommodate the new Zilog's manufacturing defects and never have a
part supply problem.

The component price game is nasty.  I think I know where folks who are too
tawdry to be used car salespersons go...;-)

That's why groups like this are useful to find supply sources and compare
notes.

Cheers,

Win Wiencke
Image Logic Corporation
>

1998\12\14@124231 by goflo

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Agreed - Unfortunately few component manufacturers operate this way.
It's somewhat mysterious to me why unit sales could make enough money
forty years ago to keep the manufacturers interested, but today, with
manufacturing, shipping, and transaction costs at all-time lows, they
(mostly) can't be bothered.
It sure ain't because they're too busy making their stockholders rich!

Regards, Jack

Peter L. Peres wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\12\14@132156 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 gofloEraseMEspam.....pacbell.net wrote:

> It's somewhat mysterious to me why unit sales could make enough money
> forty years ago to keep the manufacturers interested, but today, with

Forty years ago only about 3 countries knew what mail order shopping is,
and an extremely low percentage of the population used it at all. All the
other people bought locally and/or relied on people they knew personally
for advice they trusted. Who would you trust better now, a 10 minute
Internet price survey on a product, or your 20-year best friend who says
it costs $X ? Will you still be friends after the survey ?

Anyway, REALLY long ago, continents were discovered by mistake due to
commercial prospection explorations that could have been avoided if they
had information beforehand... Not that it was bad, discovering those
places, hehehe.

Everything Europe got from the Americas in the 1st 200 years or so could
have been gotten from Africa and Asia cheaper and faster imho, if they had
known how to and where from. In fact they *were* headed for Asia, when
they got there. Big island in the way. Oops. ;)

Peter

1998\12\15@130137 by John Payson

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|This equates to "let's make a deal."  If you're the kind of customer they
|really like, then they'll talk interesting terms, but meanwhile they don't
|want to scare anyone away based on small quantity prices.  Occasionally you
|see "less than $0.50 in quantities of 500000", which is equally meaningless;
|does that mean you have to buy 500k at one time?  Over one year?  Over the
|life of your product?  Is that AFTER the new fab gets built, or is
|there already capacity to provide that flow rate of parts...

|Yeah, it's annoying.  Expensive for the company, too.  Lack of ANY pricing
|info on a website recently caused me to request catalog/etc, costing them
|several dollars to print/send/followup on.  Then I discovered that the parts
|were a decimal ORDER OF MAGNITUDE too expensive to be interesting.

I can certainly understand that companies may have good reason for
putting different amounts of variation in small/large/huge quantity
pricing (e.g. some products might be $10ea and $5M/1,000,000 (50% price
break at *HUGE* quantity) while others might be $100ea and $10K/1,000 (a
90% price break on a moderate quantity).  And it's quite reasonable that
companies would prefer not to list every single price point in their press
releases.

But how hard would it be for a company to publish, e.g., "Price ranges from
approx. $10.00 in lots of 10 to $0.75 in millions"?  People whose demand for
the chips was between those two sales figures could figure on a price which
would be somewhere within the range as well.  Someone who needed 100K parts
per year wouldn't know whether the price was, e.g. $2 or $5ea, but would at
least have a pretty good idea of the cost involved.

1998\12\16@032829 by Caisson

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> Van: Osama ALASSIRY <EraseMEosamaspamQATARI.NET>
> Aan: RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: [OT] Sales weirdness question
> Datum: maandag 14 december 1998 13:33

<Snip>

{Quote hidden}

There you've got the answer.  they can name individual prices. Than they
can give you price X for quantity Y because you wont buy many more of them,
and they want to have some profit.  Buisiness guys who want to buy quantity
Y (but can come back to buy quantity Y times 10.000) will get another,
lower price.  The gain will come off the larger quantities bought.

OTOH : If a device is only bought in quantities of One, a company will pay
a larger sum more easily than a simple hobby-customer.  So prices could be
vice-versa ...

That I can explain the mechanism does not mean that I myself like the way
they do it.  I want to know (and compare) the proces beforehand.

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser


'[OT] Sales weirdness question'
1999\01\01@234558 by Ben Wirz
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Hi Guys,

       I couldn't agree more with Mark.  On a daily basis I buy electronic
components.  Guess which suppliers I go too first:  DigiKey, Marshall, and
Newark  Why?  The all have online pricing and inventory.  If I have to talk
to someone on the phone for a 15 minutes just to get a quote then I look
elsewhere if possible.

       Having a owned a business myself for a number of years, I have always pu
t
full pricing information on our web pages.  Some products even have pricing
for 10,000 units.  Its always worked for us so I can't understand why other
companies like to play games.  I often think it is their sales department
justifying their existence.

Sorry for the rant,

Ben


At 09:41 PM 12/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\01\02@073335 by Bob Drzyzgula

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I've been buying information technology stuff for my
employer for about fourteen years, and am frequently
frustrated by the same behavior. Over the years, I've
identified a few apparent motiviations for it that do
little to lower my annoyance level:

* Companies which use the direct sales model will hide
  prices for a couple of reasons. One is if they
  sell internationally. It is one thing, it seems, to
  sell internationally through distributers who then
  charge what the local market will bear. However,
  when a company sticks to the direct sales model and
  opens a corporate-owned sales office in a new and
  less competitive country, there is often an extreme
  reluctance to have the country-by-country prices easily
  obtained. This isn't universal, but is often closely
  associated with the following behavior:

* Another reason is that, in effect, there is no single
  price for a product, even within one country. The
  price is whatever the sales staff can get out of the
  customer. This is similar to the way that automobile
  sales often work: The price on the sticker is just a
  starting point for negotiations. There is actually,
  from what others have told me, some solid economic
  theory behind this in the sense that this strategy can
  be shown to maximize profits. (I take this to be very
  true, in part because it seems that the companies with
  the squishiest prices seem to be able to afford big
  sales staffs with a limitless capacity to badger even
  the most marginal of sales prospects. To paraphrase
  Ben, the sales staff *IS* justifying its existance.)
  This same theory will explain outlet stores and the
  phenomenon of one product being sold under multiple
  brands with differing marketing strategies ("best
  quality" vs. "low cost").  The "low-cost" sales in part
  serve to keep the factory volumes up and thus help to
  improve the margins on the "best quality" sales.

* Often a company will feel that they are in no position
  to survive a price war. Suppose that you are building
  a product that requires various parts and supplies that
  cost in aggregate maybe $10.00 when bought in moderate
  volumes, but the market price for your product is only
  $20.00 or so. Suppose then that you have a competitor
  who has the tooling to make many of those componants
  him or herself and in fact sells those componants
  separately in volume. In that event, you would most
  likely be in bad shape in a price war. In response,
  you may choose to spend a lot of time touting the
  quality and functionality of your product and not so
  much effort on advertising the price. [Consider AMD
  vs. pre-National Cyrix, for example; AMD owned the fab
  and, other than amortizing the tools -- something that
  could be deferred -- their per-CPU cost of materials
  was quite low. Cyrix, OTOH, had to pay IBM a fixed,
  contract price for every unit sold. So which vendor
  spent more time talking about specific pricing levels?]

* Some of it is simply a matter of carving out a market
  niche. Most people on this list are probably very well
  educated in technical matters; generally, we can all
  read a data sheet and for the most part figure out which
  parts or products we need. There are, however, quite
  a few people out there who don't have some of these
  skills. Not that they are skill-free, mind you, but they
  just don't have an interest in or time for some of this
  stuff. For them, having someone come to them and spend
  a lot of time on a sale is actually quite valuable, and
  they are quite willing to pay a premium for this level
  of service. A vendor oriented toward these kinds of
  sales is unlikely to have any sort of back-door access
  to their pricing. We all just wish that they could at
  least belive us when we tell them that we aren't that
  kind of customer, but somehow they never do seem to.

Myself, like Ben, I generally go for the vendor who has
their prices online, or at least one who can give me
a quick, straight answer over the phone with a minimum
of fuss.

--Bob


On Fri, Jan 01, 1999 at 08:10:39PM -0500, Ben Wirz wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
>         I couldn't agree more with Mark.  On a daily basis I buy electronic
> components.  Guess which suppliers I go too first:  DigiKey, Marshall, and
> Newark  Why?  The all have online pricing and inventory.  If I have to talk
> to someone on the phone for a 15 minutes just to get a quote then I look
> elsewhere if possible.
>
>         Having a owned a business myself for a number of years, I have always
put
{Quote hidden}

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
RemoveMEbobTakeThisOuTspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\01\02@171612 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 07:21 01/02/99 -0500, Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>Myself, like Ben, I generally go for the vendor who has
>their prices online, or at least one who can give me
>a quick, straight answer over the phone with a minimum
>of fuss.

i don't like prices over the phone at all, because often i have some choice
of technically viable options (after all, there are quite a couple of, say,
inductor mf out there, and any inductors which fit my needs might get into
the design), and i don't want to spend the time to call them all up. so i
go out and see and take the ones for which i can get an overview of the
prices of their different product lines. and i often work after hours...
(which is even easier being on the west coast)

ge

1999\01\02@184739 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 02:15:11PM -0800, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> At 07:21 01/02/99 -0500, Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
> >Myself, like Ben, I generally go for the vendor who has
> >their prices online, or at least one who can give me
> >a quick, straight answer over the phone with a minimum
> >of fuss.
>
> i don't like prices over the phone at all, because often i have some choice
> of technically viable options (after all, there are quite a couple of, say,
> inductor mf out there, and any inductors which fit my needs might get into
> the design), and i don't want to spend the time to call them all up. so i
> go out and see and take the ones for which i can get an overview of the
> prices of their different product lines. and i often work after hours...
> (which is even easier being on the west coast)

Generally, I agree, but sometimes it just doesn't
work out.  A few months ago, i needed some crimp-to-wire
connectors for use in a RAID subsystem. We were using CMD
SCSI-to-SCSI RAID controllers, and they had a two-pin
shrouded latching header on the back for attachment of
a 6V lead-acid battery.  I'd spent time off and on over
weeks looking all over for matching connectors and came up
empty. I finally got the part number from CMD; it turned
out to be an oddball 2.5mm (not 2.54mm) Berg part (if they
wern't such good controllers... grrrr). No distributer
carried them in stock (CMD threw one in the box with
each controller, but I needed the crimp tool and spares)
or even listed them a catalog. So I called my Allied
representative, who did the rest of the legwork. It turned
out they needed to be special-ordered striaght from Berg
(in ridiculous quantities, but in this case the resulting
lifetime supply, including tooling, added only 0.5% to the
overall cost of one year's build of our RAID subsystems)
and she got pricing & delivery information on the contacts,
housings and tools within about three days.

I *never* mind having to call Allied on the phone; given
what they have online, it is usually only the truely
obscure part or special quantity-based pricing that one
needs to do so for, and at least the two reps I've been
assigned have always been happy to work their tails off to
get the info I need without even the littlest hint of sales
pressure coming back my way. (I also order from Digi-key,
NuHorizons, Bell Microproducts, Marshall & Future and have
had similar experiences -- Digi-key in particular can be
amazing sometimes.)


--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
EraseMEbobspamspamspamBeGonedrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\01\02@193021 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 07:21 AM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been buying information technology stuff for my
>employer for about fourteen years, and am frequently

The way I like to handle it is "Give me your best price for such and such a
part in this quantity."  If I don't like his price, I tell him who can beat
it and can he match that.  If he comes reasonably close, I'll usually take
it.  I do LOTS of business with just a couple vendors for large volume, and
for samples.  They take good care of me because I don't get unreasonable,
and I buy good volumes from them.

Andy


==================================================================
 Andy Kunz - Montana Design - http://www.users.fast.net/~montana
==================================================================

1999\01\04@020018 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
> <snipped>
> I *never* mind having to call Allied on the phone; given
> what they have online, it is usually only the truely
> obscure part or special quantity-based pricing that one
> needs to do so for, and at least the two reps I've been
> assigned have always been happy to work their tails off to
> get the info I need without even the littlest hint of sales
> pressure coming back my way. (I also order from Digi-key,
> NuHorizons, Bell Microproducts, Marshall & Future and have
> had similar experiences -- Digi-key in particular can be
> amazing sometimes.)
>
> --Bob
>
> --
> ============================================================
> Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
> RemoveMEbobKILLspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
> ============================================================

 THAT type of help, I like! (So long as they respond eventually that's
WONDERFUL help!)  It's the folks that do the opposite - "hounding me"
when I've had to go out of my way to ask for a price quote, said that a
sale may or may not result (& that I am not the decision maker, I'm just
getting information for someone!) - and, keeping pricing impossible to
get when it's convenient for me, at 2 AM, that bug me <G>  I'd rather
tell a client "This tool costs about $127, give or take a little", than
play phone tag, the client can find out the exact price at their
convenience easily enough <G>

 I haven't bought from NuHorizons yet, but like the other places you
mentioned fine (Those places treat us all OK.)  I'll look for them.

 Mark, mwillisSTOPspamspamspam_OUTnwlink.com

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