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'[OT] Recovering CD track titles'
2007\01\25@194749 by Jinx

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I burned a few tracks to a CD as a compilation but regretfully forgot
to make a note of titles and artists

So all I get in the CD directory now is Track01.cda to Track07.cda,
which isn't very helpful. These are all similar-sounding solo piano pieces
that I can't identify from memory

I always put the compilation in a folder with names

01 Artist - Title, Duration.wav
02 Artist - Title, Duration.wav
etc

do a screen capture, edit, save as a .gif and then burn with Nero

I've used several ways to read the track in but none of them include
the original filename. Did the filename ever make it to the CD ? Is
there a utility or whatnot to make it readable if it did ?

TIA

2007\01\25@200251 by Marcel duchamp

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When I make a backup copy of my purchased CD's, I use a program called
CDex. It has a feature of connecting to the internet, accessing a
database and extracting the titles from the database and adding them to
the files.  Maybe this would work for you?

Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\01\25@203157 by Jinx

face picon face

> When I make a backup copy of my purchased CD's, I use a
> program called CDex. It has a feature of connecting to the internet,
> accessing a database and extracting the titles from the database and
> adding them to the files.  Maybe this would work for you?

I've not used it myself but a neighbour had something like it on an
Mac. Seem to work OK for him but he was using it on commercial
recordingd. These tracks are not copies from other CDs but edited
.wav files from radio recordings, so they have no inherent information,
only the .wav filenames I gave them

2007\01\25@204431 by Rolf

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Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Nope, even the names Track01.cda are made up. The audio CD format has
only 1 set of track identification, the table of contents, (TOC), which
contains the location of the start of the first track, and the offsets
of each subsequent track. The operating system calls the first track
"Track01.cda".

Other than the physical location of each track there is nothing else.

Using the number oif tracks, and the order and length of each track, you
can create a fingerprint used to look up what the CD is in a database.

So, creating your own disk will mean it's almost certainly impossible to
use the fingerprint data to match with anything out there.

You're out of luck.

Rolf

2007\01\25@211339 by Jinx

face picon face
> You're out of luck.

Thanks Rolf. So, apart from my own information purposes there's
no point giving a CD compilation track a name then. I thought it
might have been like FDD or HDD volume contents, only hidden

I have another way of making a best guess at what they are but it's
not as easy as reading them in a directory. Not as easy at all. Sigh

2007\01\25@211556 by Herbert Graf

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face
On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 13:46 +1300, Jinx wrote:
> I burned a few tracks to a CD as a compilation but regretfully forgot
> to make a note of titles and artists
>
> So all I get in the CD directory now is Track01.cda to Track07.cda,
> which isn't very helpful. These are all similar-sounding solo piano pieces
> that I can't identify from memory
>
> I always put the compilation in a folder with names
>
> 01 Artist - Title, Duration.wav
> 02 Artist - Title, Duration.wav
> etc
>
> do a screen capture, edit, save as a .gif and then burn with Nero
>
> I've used several ways to read the track in but none of them include
> the original filename. Did the filename ever make it to the CD ? Is
> there a utility or whatnot to make it readable if it did ?

Unfortunately the original filenames are lost, they are not stored at
all on the disk.

You also can't use the CDDB (the internet database that identifies disks
and servers album and song titles) since you didn't copy a disk, but
created a compilation.

The only option I can think of is something my cell phone provider has.
It's a service that'll "figure out" the name of the song and artist. All
it needs is a 30 second clip of the song. It's meant for when you are in
say a club, you hear a song you like, but have no idea what it's called.
You call this number, hold your phone in the air and it listens. After
about 30 seconds it hangs up and sends you a text with the name of the
song and artist.

It's pretty accurate, I've tested it a couple times. Perhaps your
provider offers a similar service.

TTYL

2007\01\25@215225 by Rolf

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
>> You're out of luck.
>>    
>
> Thanks Rolf. So, apart from my own information purposes there's
> no point giving a CD compilation track a name then. I thought it
> might have been like FDD or HDD volume contents, only hidden
>
> I have another way of making a best guess at what they are but it's
> not as easy as reading them in a directory. Not as easy at all. Sigh
>
>  
Well, that's not quite true. Giving a track a name, etc, is very useful
if you store the music in a Data CD format, rather than Audio CD. Take a
collection of MP3's, because the track is stored as a file it is
possible to store all sorts of data with the song.

It is possible to "rip" your CD music, and using the CDDB or FreeDB or
some other CD database you can add a heap of data to each track. Then
burning your "mix" to a new CD in a data format, you can then keep all
the info there. Most modern (OK, some modern) CD players (even car
players) can play these disks, and will display the track title, etc. in
the display.

Note that while MP3 format is a "lossy" format (the sound quality is not
as good after encoding as before - although the difference in quality is
theoretically imperceptible to most people), you do not need to use MP3
to do the above process. Using various formats other than MO3 will work,
and will be just as good as the CD audio (AAC, and FLAAC formats come to
mind...).

The big benefit of MP3 is the compression, about 10 to 1, so you can get
about 10 normal audio CD's content in to 1 MP3 CD (depending on your
compression/quality levels).

So, if you have a compatible player, you can always rip your tracks
without compression (and ID them from the internet while ripping), then,
when you mix them back to a CD, just don't use an audio format CD.

Rolf

2007\01\25@225608 by Tony Smith

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Unlike MP3, .wav usually doesn't include song information.

CDDB.com & FreeDB.org are no use to use as they need the entire original
album in order to figure out what it is.  They create a checksum of the song
lengths, and use that to determine the album.

There's a website called MusicBrainz, (http://www.musicbrainz.org) that can
identify individual songs.  You needs to download one of their programs, I
use the 'Classic Tagger' since I couldn't get the 'Picard' one to download a
while back.  You'll also need to set up an account (no big deal).

Anyhow, run the program, drop the files into it, and wait.  It take about 15
seconds per song.  In the case of the tagger I was using, it then either
moves the file to the Identified section, where you can then give the Ok for
it to rename them; or they end up in the Unknown section.

Sometime you get multiple matches for a song, and will need to pick one.
Failing that there's a lookup function to manually find the song.

When ripping I use CDEX v1.51 with freedb.org as the database.  CDEx v1.7
has a few bugs, being beta and all.

I also use Tag&Rename to deal with MP3 tags.  It'll deal with individual
songs or albums, and lets you fix up error or fill in missing data.  It can
also rename files based on info within the mp3 tag.

Tony

2007\01\25@233206 by James Nick Sears

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face
Not as a direct help, but maybe loosely related, there is a CDText  
format that never really seemed to catch on that some CD players  
could read (I had a pretty high-end Kenwood car head unit from a few  
years back that could, for example - I also think that many computers  
read it) that can embed disc/track info into the disc.  As far as I  
recall (I haven't burned many CD's since I moved to NY and migrated  
from a car to the subway, and hence my car stereo to an iPod) most  
burning software, Nero included, supports burning CDs with the data  
embedded.

I was always amazed that of all the commercial CDs I owned, only a  
tiny handful (maybe 3 or 4) actually included the data.  Maybe it's  
more prevalent these days.

-n.



On Jan 25, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Tony Smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2007\01\26@024444 by Jinx

face picon face
> The big benefit of MP3 is the compression, about 10 to 1, so you
> can get about 10 normal audio CD's content in to 1 MP3 CD
> (depending on your compression/quality levels)

Yes, I do that often, 44100Hz  & 320kbps. 2/3 of my players can
do MP3 and, as you say, the quality difference is imperceptible (or
at least I've not found any issues yet) for such drastically smaller
file sizes. I have a bum-bag (fanny-pack) with a 6V SLA and
switcher to put out 3.6V for the CD player. It's great, lasts all day
and I need to take just a couple of MP3 CDs with me. Also, some
long symphonic works are on the long-play SACD format, (eg
Bruckner's 8th is 86 minutes) and as I don't want to take originals
out and can't back up SACD, a 200MB MP3 does the job fine

2007\01\26@042505 by Tony Smith

picon face
> > The big benefit of MP3 is the compression, about 10 to 1,
> so you can
> > get about 10 normal audio CD's content in to 1 MP3 CD (depending on
> > your compression/quality levels)
>
> Yes, I do that often, 44100Hz  & 320kbps. 2/3 of my players
> can do MP3 and, as you say, the quality difference is
> imperceptible (or at least I've not found any issues yet) for
> such drastically smaller file sizes. I have a bum-bag


Do VBR (variable bit rate), makes your files much smaller.  Set the maximum
to 320, and the minimum to 32.

I find it can drop the size in half on occasions.  Depends what it is, old
time blues tends to crunch down pretty well.

Tony

2007\01\26@063151 by Jinx

face picon face
> Do VBR (variable bit rate), makes your files much smaller.  Set the
> maximum to 320, and the minimum to 32

Ah, wasn't aware you could do that. The convertor I use has only fixed
rates. Recommend a VBR one ?

2007\01\26@064849 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Jinx,

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:31:27 +1300, Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

In that case I think that in your inland waterborne journey,  you are deficient in the paddle department!  :-)

If you'd copied it from a commercial CD then there's a chance that some reference remains, but as you came from an analog sound source, there was
nothing there to capture.

You're not alone - I've done this too.  There is only aural recognition left (find an expert to help?), I'm afraid.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\01\26@071635 by Tony Smith

picon face
> > Do VBR (variable bit rate), makes your files much smaller.  Set the
> > maximum to 320, and the minimum to 32
>
> Ah, wasn't aware you could do that. The convertor I use has
> only fixed rates. Recommend a VBR one ?


I use CDEX, which you can find here:
http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/download.html.  Get v1.51, the beta one has
bugs.  It's a few years old, works fine though.

For VBR, there's a quality setting as well.  Small numbers = higher quality
= bigger files.

I haven't come across anything that won't play a VBR MP3.  Some really old
stuff won't.

Tony

2007\01\26@122217 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Aside from all the other mentions of song identification services, you
may have some luck getting the length of each song and comparing them
to the length of the songs you expect them to be.

-Adam

On 1/25/07, Jinx <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\01\26@140427 by Jeff Findley

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"Herbert Graf" <.....mailinglist3KILLspamspam@spam@farcite.net> wrote in message
news:1169777754.4140.3.camel@PD804...
> Unfortunately the original filenames are lost, they are not stored at
> all on the disk.

Depends.  If you turned on an option to burn the Audio CD with CD Text, then
the text is on the CD, but I've found that many programs can't read CD Text
on a PC.  At home, I downloaded a windows program to read the CD Text on a
CD, but don't know the name right now...

Here it is:

CD-Text Manager by happymonkey (with screenshot)
http://www.wmplugins.com/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemID=534

The author's web site
http://cdtext.galleytech.com/MANAGER/index.html

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\01\26@143049 by Jeff Findley

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"James Nick Sears" <jnsearsspamKILLspamjamesnsears.com> wrote in message
news:.....E6C37DC5-9442-4AEC-8C80-42AD150FA9C8KILLspamspam.....jamesnsears.com...> > Not as a direct help, but maybe loosely related, there is a CDText
> format that never really seemed to catch on that some CD players
> could read (I had a pretty high-end Kenwood car head unit from a few
> years back that could, for example - I also think that many computers
> read it) that can embed disc/track info into the disc.  As far as I
> recall (I haven't burned many CD's since I moved to NY and migrated
> from a car to the subway, and hence my car stereo to an iPod) most
> burning software, Nero included, supports burning CDs with the data
> embedded.
>
> I was always amazed that of all the commercial CDs I owned, only a
> tiny handful (maybe 3 or 4) actually included the data.  Maybe it's
> more prevalent these days.

Every CD I burn, I burn with the CD Text switch ON since I've got several CD
players that will read this.  Also, I use a program called "CD Text Manager"
on the PC to get this information and load it into the PC's local CD Text
databases.

http://www.wmplugins.com/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemID=534

This is especially useful on "mix" CD's I've made myself.

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\01\26@144547 by Herbert Graf

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face
On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 14:02 -0500, Jeff Findley wrote:
> "Herbert Graf" <EraseMEmailinglist3spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTfarcite.net> wrote in message
> news:1169777754.4140.3.camel@PD804...
> > Unfortunately the original filenames are lost, they are not stored at
> > all on the disk.
>
> Depends.  If you turned on an option to burn the Audio CD with CD Text, then
> the text is on the CD,

No. CD-text is completely separate from the source file name.

CD-text is something you have to independently set. Many software
packages that support it will query the CDDB and insert the album and
song titles into the CD-text area. I've never seen a package that will
automatically take the file name and insert it as the CD-text title.

The fact that cd-text never took off is a shame. Most better car CD
players support it, yet VERY few commercial disks have it. For a time I
was taking my commercial disks and reburning them with the CD-text
information added, just so I'd KNOW what song I was listening to (plus
that way there was zero chance of damaging my original disks in the
car).

TTYL

2007\01\26@145930 by Jeff Findley

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face

"Herbert Graf" <mailinglist3spamspam_OUTfarcite.net> wrote in message
news:1169840745.3848.51.camel@PD804...
> On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 14:02 -0500, Jeff Findley wrote:
>> "Herbert Graf" <@spam@mailinglist3KILLspamspamfarcite.net> wrote in message
>> news:1169777754.4140.3.camel@PD804...
>> > Unfortunately the original filenames are lost, they are not stored at
>> > all on the disk.
>>
>> Depends.  If you turned on an option to burn the Audio CD with CD Text,
>> then
>> the text is on the CD,
>
> No. CD-text is completely separate from the source file name.
>
> CD-text is something you have to independently set. Many software
> packages that support it will query the CDDB and insert the album and
> song titles into the CD-text area. I've never seen a package that will
> automatically take the file name and insert it as the CD-text title.

I use Roxio Easy Media Creator, "Creator Classic" and it does exactly this.
By default the CD Text name for the track is the name of the file, so
naturally I name all of my files the way I want them on the CD so I don't
have to type them in again when burning a CD.  Of course I still have to
type in the CD Text name for the "Album" and "Artist" by hand, but that's no
big deal.

I've no idea what other CD burning packages, like Nero, do for burning CD's
with CD Text.

> The fact that cd-text never took off is a shame. Most better car CD
> players support it, yet VERY few commercial disks have it. For a time I
> was taking my commercial disks and reburning them with the CD-text
> information added, just so I'd KNOW what song I was listening to (plus
> that way there was zero chance of damaging my original disks in the
> car).

Agreed.

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



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