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'[OT] Re: PICs and jobs'
1998\05\11@143524 by White Horse Design

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Added [OT]

(As I have been taught to be good little "PicLister").
(Which my spell checker goes "wobbly" about too!)

At 06:34 11/05/98 PDT, you wrote:
>"My dog's not in this fight."
>
>Therefor I should stay out of it.  That would be the smart thing to

Aha!....^

>do.  That would be the safe thing to do.  So then why don't I do it?
>
>There are people who's mind is one level above pond scum.

Hey, pond scum's vastly underrated! :-)

>And I
>hope everyone just ignores them.  Just as I will ignore someone
>who points out a spelling error (in a mean manner) made by a
>gentleman who can communicate in seven languages.

Ah, good sentiment, I agree (and I wasn't being mean above BTW).

>The comment about spelling and grammar was appropriate.  The
>question involved  jobs' and an employer's first impression of a
>persons qualifications is a written resume.
.......^

Need's an apostrophe I think ;-)

>And the comment was not done in a manner that criticized, but
>was given as good advice. (Which appeared to be much needed)
>And it was followed with good advice on other topics as well.
>
>Also the reply pointing out that some posters may have limited
>English abilities was also appropriate. All the advice given by
>everyone who responded was extremely good. (Even mine) And I
>think it wonderful that people take time to help others as they
>always do on this list.

You are quite right.

>useless to them.  And some times I do see a hint that English is
>not their first language.  The way a word is used or the order of a
>group of words.  But this is extremely rare.

You can sometimes tell by the grammar and the way phrases are formed. It
never ceases to amuse me that UK companies piously produce brochures and
promotional material which deliberately uses the American spelling in a
vain effort to suggest that they are a US company. Americans can tell a
mile off that they're not, the words, phrases, and the way the message is
presented are quite recognisable (English spelling note) as non-American.

>The youth in the USA fall into three groups.  Those that
>don't finish school, those that do finish but can't read nor write,
>and those that finish and can read and write.

What was the name of the guy who couldn't spell "potato"?
What category did he come into?

(Ah, Dan Quayle I think)

Take this as "tongue in cheek", (i.e. not too seriously) I agree with your
sentiments but I think you're being a teensy weensy bit too serious for
this list? :-)

Regards

Adrian

WWW    WWW   Adrian Gothard
WWW WW WWW   White Horse Design
WWWWWWWWWW   +44-385-970009 (Mobile/SMS), +44-118-962-8913/4 (voice/fax)
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1998\05\12@082155 by Andy Kunz

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>What was the name of the guy who couldn't spell "potato"?
>What category did he come into?
>
>(Ah, Dan Quayle I think)

No, a TEACHER at the school Dan Quayle was visiting.  That's why this
country is falling apart - we have morons at the front of the classrooms.

(Only one reason.  Slime balls making (and ignoring) the laws don't help
either).

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\05\12@122547 by DREITEK

picon face
in a message dated 98-05-12 08:22:00 EDT, you write:

<<
No, a TEACHER at the school Dan Quayle was visiting.  That's why this
country is falling apart - we have morons at the front of the classrooms.

(Only one reason.  Slime balls making (and ignoring) the laws don't help
either).

Andy
 >>
OOHHHH!  OK now my dander is up (and you know how painful that can be!)

99% of all teachers are underpaid and grossly overworked!  Teaching is the
only Professional type profession that is controlled by the massivly
underqualified!  One needs a bachelors degree, a teaching credential and 1
year of unpaid apprentiship only to be paid less than most construction
workers and asked to work not only at work but in the evenings and during
vaccations.  And then they have to keep taking classes to prove to the state
that they are still worthy to teach.  Then  they elect housewives and baptist
asshole ministers to govern the whole thing whilst mandating methods of
teaching that failed in the 40s but somehow are now expected to work!  If you
could do your job with both hands tied behind your back and one leg wraped
around your neck, then and only then would you be qualified to have an opinion
of what teaching is really about!

Dave Duley

1998\05\12@141112 by Matt Calder

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       I second that, as a former high school teacher I can attest that
the job involves long hours, is emotionally and mentally taxing, and
offers little by way of financial incentive. Want to improve education in
this or any country? Pay teachers more.

       Matt


{Quote hidden}

/*****************************************/
/* Matt Calder, Dept. of Statistics, CSU */
/* http://www.stat.colostate.edu/~calder */
/*****************************************/

1998\05\12@164423 by eslight

picon face
Could you carry your little fight in E-mail please? you
"fighting kids" are serisously annoying.

Calling one a liar, and another a slut, gee, where's the PIC
part? teaching? okay fine now that we've heard all your statements
(that are growing in insults) Please shut up and get back to
the mailing list's subject.

Sorry to be rude but that thread is growing for absolutely
nothing, you won't fix teaching issue here and by reading the
degrading content of the messages, the list is simply not the
right place to fix those issue.  And I think 99% of the people
here are tired with that too.


Thanks.


--
-----------------------------------------------
Eric Slight          E-mail: .....eslightKILLspamspam@spam@matrox.com
DigiSuite SQA Specialist.
Video Production Group, Matrox Electronics Inc.
Dorval, Quebec (Canada).
http://www.matrox.com/video
Comments are mine and not those of the company.
-----------------------------------------------

1998\05\12@170610 by Janet and Carl McIver

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   This is really digressing!  If teachers wanted to get paid more, they
can go get a job somehere else!  If they like their job, quit whining!
Personally, my kids will go nowhere near a public school!  The problem is
not the teachers, it is the administrators that your elected officials and
YOU appointed.  They feel that computers and sensitivity training are more
important than the basics that we all seem to have taken for granted and we
are stupid enough to let us get sucked in by it, too!
   The ability to articulate oneself clearly is not a skill that you will
get out of public school anymore.  The dependance on spell checkers in their
computers seems to have taken over the need for proper syntax and grammar.
Many kids may be very intelligent, but through no fault of their own, are
lacking in the basic skills that are required to compete well in today's
challenging environment.  Unfortunately, a compiler doesn't care that you
meant well, and will award you no points for being close.
   It has been so long since the gentleman first posted his request, that I
am sure he is not happy with the stir that has been caused, but it does
point out a lot of things, and what makes us all different and why.  I hope
that he takes none of this personally, and can find that tiny bit of advice
in all the fracass to further his education, even if it is self-inflicted
(!)
   Everyone have a better day!

SO.....Whaddya really want??

Carl R, McIver  (usually)
or the wife (Janet) and kids

Pull your head out to send me e-mail!
jncmcivryourheadspamKILLspamgte.net

{Original Message removed}

1998\05\12@213405 by Eric Smith

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DREITEK <.....DREITEKKILLspamspam.....AOL.COM> wrote:
> OOHHHH!  OK now my dander is up (and you know how painful that can be!)
> 99% of all teachers are underpaid and grossly overworked!  Teaching is the

Reminds me of someone's proposal to reduce the cost of education:

Let's just pay teachers the same as babysitters:

30 students x 6 hours/day x 200 days/year x $5.00/hour = $180,000/year.

Many parents treat school as simply a free babysitting service, and don't
worry about the quality of the education.  But if it were billed the same
as babysitting service, there wouldn't be any problem getting plenty
of well-trained teachers.  Instead of a shortage of teachers, there would
be a lot of competition for the jobs.  We could even reduce the number of
students per teacher.

(Note that I am not impugning the quality of the teachers we have now.)

Heck, maybe they could even teach kids to program PICs.  :-)

Eric

1998\05\12@231145 by Matthias Granberry

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I do not think it is a fault administrators, or even the teachers.  In my
experience, it has been the students that have been at fault.  My education
in public schooling has been every bit as good as that which I had in a
private school.  They were both blue ribbon schools, but it seems that the
quality of the public school has been as good as any other, but it was not
administration that hurt the private school, but the students.  Every teacher
that I have known has complained about the lack of caring on the part of the
student.  The computer education in public schools, although not required, has
been better-taught than the required joke that I have seen in most private
schools, and I have only seen sensitivity/goals setting/peer mediation/uppity
classes in private schools.  In my experience, public schooling has been the
only option for actually acquiring an education, whereas attending a private
school was a good attempt to become a more conforming yuppy.

       Janet and Carl McIver <EraseMEjncmcivrspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTGTE.NET> writes:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

1998\05\13@001529 by Sean Breheny

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At 10:55 PM 5/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I do not think it is a fault administrators, or even the teachers.  In my
>experience, it has been the students that have been at fault.  My education
>in public schooling has been every bit as good as that which I had in a
>private school.  They were both blue ribbon schools, but it seems that the
>quality of the public school has been as good as any other, but it was not
>administration that hurt the private school, but the students.  Every teacher
>that I have known has complained about the lack of caring on the part of the
>student.  The computer education in public schools, although not required,
has
>been better-taught than the required joke that I have seen in most private
>schools, and I have only seen sensitivity/goals setting/peer mediation/uppity
>classes in private schools.  In my experience, public schooling has been the
>only option for actually acquiring an education, whereas attending a private
>school was a good attempt to become a more conforming yuppy.
>

I will keep this real short because of the sheer OTness of it:

       I have been schooled in private schools my whole life, not because my
family is rich(not!) or because I consider myself better than anyone else,
but because of religious affilliation and because my parents(and I myself)
felt that these private schools provided a much better education and
environment. I have friends who attended both public and private schools
and most of them feel that the learning environment in the private schools
is MUCH better.
       Rather than digressing into a lengthy discussion about who's at fault an
d
why, I can propose a simple solution which has often been proposed but has
been prevented from being implemented in most cases: instead of forcing
everyone's tax money to fund public schools (whether they are good or not),
give every child's parent a tuition voucher which could be used for X
number of tuition dollars at ANY accredited school. Not only is this the
most free and democratic way of doing it, but it would break the monopoly
which public schools DO have, and allow all types of schools to compete on
level ground.


Again, sorry for taking up the BW, but I had to get that off my chest! ;)

Sean

BTW, the private school teachers get considerably LESS money where I live.
Average salary for public HS teacher, ~$40K with $30K pension after
retirement. Private school version, ~$35K, unsure about pension, and my
high school was recognized by the US dept of education with its highest honor.


+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Save lives, please look at
http://www.all.org

Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
@spam@shb7KILLspamspamcornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\05\13@023441 by Nigel Goodwin

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There's a very old saying in the UK.

'Those who can, do!
Those you can't, teach!'

As someone who has contact with the public as customers, we find there
are three main types of total 'prats!'.

1) Teachers.
2) Social workers.
3) County Office workers.

BTW, primary school teachers don't seem as bad as secondary school
ones!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : KILLspamnigelgKILLspamspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    |                                            |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1998\05\13@083240 by Andy Kunz

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>BTW, primary school teachers don't seem as bad as secondary school
>ones!.

Nigel,

That's because secondary teachers are the ones who have to fill in the many
holes left by the elementary ones.

Andy

==================================================================
                    Andy Kunz - Montana Design
         Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
==================================================================

1998\05\13@092135 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 01:13 PM 5/13/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Ciao  <--(my English spell checker always complains about this...)
>  Marco


Even some english people being "cute" like to say Ciao. I'm surprised it
isn't in the spell checker. Oh well, then again microcontroller isn't in mine!

Sean

>
>----
>Marco DI LEO                  email: RemoveMEm.dileoTakeThisOuTspamsistinf.it
>Sistemi Informativi S.p.A.    tel:   +39 6 50292 300
>V. Elio Vittorini, 129        fax:   +39 6 5015991
>I-00144 Roma
>Italy
>
+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Save lives, please look at
http://www.all.org

Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
spamBeGoneshb7spamBeGonespamcornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\05\13@114256 by DREITEK

picon face
In a message dated 98-05-12 21:34:17 EDT, you write:

<<
DREITEK <TakeThisOuTDREITEKEraseMEspamspam_OUTAOL.COM> wrote:
> OOHHHH!  OK now my dander is up (and you know how painful that can be!)
> 99% of all teachers are underpaid and grossly overworked!  Teaching is the

Reminds me of someone's proposal to reduce the cost of education:

Let's just pay teachers the same as babysitters:

30 students x 6 hours/day x 200 days/year x $5.00/hour = $180,000/year.

Many parents treat school as simply a free babysitting service, and don't
worry about the quality of the education.  But if it were billed the same
as babysitting service, there wouldn't be any problem getting plenty
of well-trained teachers.  Instead of a shortage of teachers, there would
be a lot of competition for the jobs.  We could even reduce the number of
students per teacher.

(Note that I am not impugning the quality of the teachers we have now.)

Heck, maybe they could even teach kids to program PICs.  :-)

Eric
 >>
Hi Eric

Thanks for your intelligent insight!!!!

(Hey Andy  thats at least two for my side  :)  )

Point in fact:  My kids just did a unit on technology.  They got to play with
limit switches, proximity sensors and even some simple form of
microcontroller. (I don't know what it was exactly because it was simplified
and sealed in a box.)  This is at the sixth grade level.  I thought it was a
great experiance.  My daughter now wants to build a robot.
Cool huh?

Dave

1998\05\14@192850 by Andy Kunz

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At 11:23 AM 5/13/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-12 21:34:17 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> DREITEK <RemoveMEDREITEKspamTakeThisOuTAOL.COM> wrote:
> > OOHHHH!  OK now my dander is up (and you know how painful that can be!)
> > 99% of all teachers are underpaid and grossly overworked!  Teaching is the
>
> Reminds me of someone's proposal to reduce the cost of education:
>
> Let's just pay teachers the same as babysitters:
>
> 30 students x 6 hours/day x 200 days/year x $5.00/hour = $180,000/year.
>
<SNIP>
>Thanks for your intelligent insight!!!!
>
>(Hey Andy  thats at least two for my side  :)  )
>

Dave,

I think Eric was being sarcastic there.

Yo Eric!  Were you??

Andy


==================================================================
                    Andy Kunz - Montana Design
         Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
==================================================================

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