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'[OT] Re: {EE} Want to detect auto turn signal blin'
2009\03\08@141224 by solarwind

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On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf <spam_OUTlearrTakeThisOuTspamrogers.com> wrote:
> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at the
> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are
> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are required to
> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption is that
> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the other
> side.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1
>
> Rolf

OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get special
treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they
should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else.
It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200
metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the driver)
may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them instantly.

--
solarwind

2009\03\08@160422 by Rolf

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solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

solarwind, interesting.

Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your opinions
with more meaningful arguments.

In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is
very weak.

Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really suggesting
that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big
yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign sticking
out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a
straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker may
not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a traffic
light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By nature
of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is
required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic
lights....

Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also just
plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the
children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad about
that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road
'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers that
pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that the
kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys the
rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, and
fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by
accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when it's
safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see many
kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same kids
would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, etc.
It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature of
kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted.

Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else (and
wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a justification ...
There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the authorities
have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good example...
authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at
intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles may
inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light
brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save
lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for pedestrians
at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), and
they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with special
treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast
lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places,
allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for everything,
and they *do* often make sense.

Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses should
not get special treatment and delay traffic.

I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses delay
traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being peeved
that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I can
understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but being
behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road with a
kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up
their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these things
happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that 100m
down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets off.
Very frustrating...

... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show that it
has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' perspective,
the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant than
the lives that would be lost without the law.

Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do
something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, etc.
or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids.

But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study the
situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the
reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and
respond appropriately.

For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they
load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid
motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good
conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which have
fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport times. I
treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no other
traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really do
stop properly). etc.

Rolf

2009\03\08@163439 by solarwind

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Wow, I didn't mean for this to get so serious, lol. I don't hate it
THAT strongly, it's just annoying :)

2009\03\08@163504 by solarwind

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If I wanted it to get into a serious discussion, I would have written
an essay for you all with my justifications.

2009\03\08@164809 by Tony Smith

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face
>  If I wanted it to get into a serious discussion, I would have written
> an essay for you all with my justifications.


I'll bite.  Fire away.

Tony

2009\03\08@185113 by Michael Algernon

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face
I agree with Solarwind
MA
{Quote hidden}

> --

2009\03\08@195608 by Tamas Rudnai

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Then come to Ireland, here there are no school buses.. only 1 car per kid
with the mum stopping on the middle of the road let you waiting much longer
than a school bus would. And when you are lucky that noone is blocking the
road then there is the lollypop lady why let's you waiting...

Seriously, when there is no school, there is no traffic - I mean, NO
traffic. School buses are good and even if you have to wait till they load
it makes much less problems than the parents would.

Tamas



On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Michael Algernon <.....picKILLspamspam.....nope9.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2009\03\09@012512 by Michael Algernon

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Ireland is tempting.  I may like it better than the USA.  The  
authorities ( and  those who love them ) might not let me in.
MA
{Quote hidden}

                 Do not agree with above statement   MA
         Or the ones below.
{Quote hidden}

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