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'[OT] Proposed equipment to improve furnace efficie'
2006\04\18@113151 by ds

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With the current high energy costs, my current employer (large
corporation) is looking at all possible means to reduce consumption.  
Being considered is the equipment described at the following link:

http://earthtekintl.com/gas_o_max.htm

Quoting from the website:  "The Industrial Gas-O-Max uses negative
ionization to make natural gas heating systems burn more efficiently
which will in turn increase productivity and lower gas usage."

The unit uses no external electrical power!??

The website has several reports that claim data-based proof of
concept:

http://earthtekintl.com/Gas-O-Max_powerpoint.ppt

My first guess is to ask them:
1)  If it uses no power, what does it do?  How does it work?
2)  If we trial it, I would like to see the unit turned on and off
several times and see that any improvement is real, statistically
significant and repeatable.

There is a fear concerning possible or unknown health or safety
effects which I'm not sure how to address.

Does anybody know anything about this type of technology or the right
questions to ask?  Anybody think it's real or psuedo-science?  Are
there any real health concerns?

Thanks
DS

2006\04\18@120527 by Mike Hord

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Looks fishy to me.

The whole thing smacks of those stickers one places under the battery
of a cell phone to improve range, etc.  I guess it could work; who knows?
Based on the paucity of hard information on the website, it's hard to
make an informed judgement.  Although it seems to me that if they put
that little real info out, there's a reason they don't want us making an
informed judgement!

Mike H.

On 4/18/06, ds <spam_OUTandscottTakeThisOuTspamlogantele.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\04\18@122656 by James Newtons Massmind

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> The website has several reports that claim data-based proof of
> concept:
>
> earthtekintl.com/Gas-O-Max_powerpoint.ppt
>
> My first guess is to ask them:
> 1)  If it uses no power, what does it do?  How does it work?
> 2)  If we trial it, I would like to see the unit turned on
> and off several times and see that any improvement is real,
> statistically significant and repeatable.

If you offer them even double the price, but only if the unit actually
demonstrates savings, and they back away, you should too.

> There is a fear concerning possible or unknown health or
> safety effects which I'm not sure how to address.
>
> Does anybody know anything about this type of technology or
> the right questions to ask?  Anybody think it's real or
> psuedo-science?  Are there any real health concerns?

Sounds like pure crap to me. But the proof is in the pudding. "If it works
for me, I will pay you more, if it doesn't I won't pay you at all." And if
you do try it, and it has no effect, do please publish your results. Right
now, I can't find any debunking on google with the

> Thanks
> DS
>
> -

2006\04\18@122826 by Luis.Moreira

picon face
It seems fishy to me too.
In some instances they claim up to 21% increase and on others they claim
8.3% to 11.5%... that's a big difference...
Best regards
               Luis



{Original Message removed}

2006\04\18@132915 by Peter

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On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, ds wrote:

> The unit uses no external electrical power!??
>
> The website has several reports that claim data-based proof of
> concept:
>
> http://earthtekintl.com/Gas-O-Max_powerpoint.ppt
>
> My first guess is to ask them:
> 1)  If it uses no power, what does it do?  How does it work?

These things produce static electricity from the gas flow energy.
Similar filters exist for HVAC. It might work.

Peter

2006\04\18@133233 by Sergey Dryga

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ds <andscott <at> logantele.com> writes:

>
> With the current high energy costs, my current employer (large
> corporation) is looking at all possible means to reduce consumption.  
> Being considered is the equipment described at the following link:
>
> http://earthtekintl.com/gas_o_max.htm
>
<SNIP>

> Does anybody know anything about this type of technology or the right
> questions to ask?  Anybody think it's real or psuedo-science?  Are
> there any real health concerns?

Ask them if it contains a radioactive source. If they would not say, ask if it
will require special handling and/or disposal.

Ionization technology was used while ago (so I was told) to increase efficiency
of internal combustion engines, primarily in military helicopters.  A
relatively small source placed in evaporation chamber (I think this is right
term) increased engine power by 10-20%.  IIRC, the source was alpha-emitter.  
The total amount of radioactivity might be negligible enough to not require
special approval.

This thing might be legitimate, with the emphasis on ***might be***.  

Sergey
>
> Thanks
> DS
>




2006\04\18@134626 by Peter

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After re-reading: I think that they use power anyway.

Peter

2006\04\18@135925 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> 1)  If it uses no power, what does it do?  How does it work?

It transfers money from you to the seller. Very efficient from the
sellers point of view.

Realy, I don't see how a burner that just burns fuel into heat can be
made more effecient, unless
- the heat loss is reduced (isolation, use of heat in output gasses)
- the burning process is made more complete (but I would hope it is
almost complete right now).

The fact that this thing creates something (a low-energy standing
magnetic field) from no input power is a sure sign that somthing is
wrong.

The fact that you are working for a company who even considers this is
also a sign....

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\04\18@140312 by Carey Fisher

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Read their "Ford Motor Company Ltd, Canada" report highlighted on their
web page.  It concludes (in the Executive Summary) "...it was difficult
to get sufficient data .... This made it difficult to provide
statistically meaningful results."

So, their premier headline article says the results are inconclusive.  
What conclusion would YOU draw from this?

Carey

James Newtons Massmind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2006\04\19@153302 by Peter

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On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Luis Moreira wrote:

> It seems fishy to me too. In some instances they claim up to 21%
> increase and on others they claim 8.3% to 11.5%... that's a big
> difference... Best regards

I'll bet you virtual $1 that if it's electrostatic it depends strongly
on the humidity content of the gas and air ...

Peter

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