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'[OT] Photo Radar Buster PRB'
2000\03\30@150321 by Fansler, David

flavicon
face
//On Soap Box
What's wrong with driving within the speed limit?  I got my last speeding
ticket in December of 1976 and have found that driving less than 5 mph over
the speed limit is acceptable to the law enforcement people.  I do not use a
radar detector.  Speed limits are set for the safety of all - not as a
challenge to get around.
//Off Soap Box

David V. Fansler
Network Administrator
TriPath Imaging, Inc. (Formerly AutoCyte, Inc)
336-222-9707 Ext. 261
spam_OUTdfanslerTakeThisOuTspamautocyte.com <.....dfanslerKILLspamspam@spam@autocyte.com>
Now Showing! http://www.dv-fansler.com <http://www.dv-fansler.com/>
Updated March 21,2000
Ann's Cancer & David's Observatory


               {Original Message removed}

2000\03\30@153621 by Matt Ballinger

picon face
  You could go the speed limit and save a lot of time, worry and money.
However, if you must, a simple spray-on gloss enamel or clear tag cover over
the tag is much easier method of masking the tag. This works because of the
extreme angles PR's take picutres.

2000\03\30@154458 by Mark Willis

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It's not just a choosing not to speed problem, though - sometimes
speeing up is the BEST thing you can do, to get away from a nutcase,
when they won't quit tailgating you...  There, the real problem's that
tailgater, not your absolute speed - and I'd bet the photo LIDAR units
don't cite the second car...

I notice the "authorities", here in the US at least (who we, as US
citizens, control, supposedly!) seem insatiable in their appetite for
more money, (to give themselves raises etc.?) - and seem hell-bent on
using any, and I mean ANY, "cost-effective" means to gather money (i.e.
if it's technologically feasable, they'll try it.)  "ROI" (Return on
Investment) should not be a top consideration for "managing" the
citizens' behavior, in any country, IMO...  I don't much like the
auto-resetting parking meters either, if a commercial entity tried that
one it'd be called fraud IMO...

I do support radar that just tells you your speed with a billboard, to
remind people to slow down where there is danger to pedestrians - THAT,
is good, IMO.  I've been passed too many times on the freeway by some
bozo tailgating me and trying to push me to doing about 85+ MPH, though,
to believe that photo radar or photo lidar, or even a direct police
presence will do the job of really protecting people (And called in a
fair number of DUI's, myself, to save lives);  A human law enforcement
officer has judgement and can tell when to nail the tailgating car, or
when their equipment is malfunctioning (which as we all know does
happen), as well as let you off with a warning when the entire reason
you were speeding is that idiot who's tailgating you 12" from your rear
bumper, and slowing down didn't work to get rid of 'em...

Strategically, perhaps the best answer is a paintball gun;  Non-lethal
to passers by, quite effective in covering the lens (temporarily at
least, if it's raining), and a fun thought, though probably illegal as
anything else we've discussed here <G>  Putting a rock through the lens
with a "Slur Bow", would also work - but is lots more dangerous to other
people, and more illegal probably.  Another answer would be a big blob
of contact cement <EG>  Best is to get those curst things outlawed and
get them to spend that same amount on additional officers on the street,
if there's really a speeding problem and this isn't just a
money-gathering exercise...

(I keep expecting someone to drive up and tow those trailers off,
they're starting to install the billboard ones around here...  And I
wonder when someone will start noticing that car-to-car or truck-to-car
distance is probably a LOT more appropriate thing to monitor, instead of
absolute car speed measurements.  Having a Semi rig parked on my rear
bumper at 55 MPH, tends to make me nervous for some reason...)

 Mark

Fansler, David wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>                 {Original Message removed}

2000\03\30@172226 by Kev

picon face
We have some of those here near Wash DC but they are only using them to
catch red light runners.

I would suggest a web site that post the location of all known photo devices
to help spread the word.  The website may also act as a sounding board to
bring about change if needed.

I liked the comment about police ROI.

My father, now retired, was a Forest Warden and the State set a quota for
the number of fires he was expected to have each year.  If the actual number
of fires he had was lower (or higher) he had to produce a written report
explaining the discrepancy (why he didn't have enough fires....)

Same for issuing tickets/ citations etc....  Management by numbers/
statistics etc is not managing the root problem, just the numbers.

Thankfully the police in our area have taken a new approach, they have a
motorist assistance program & maintain a low profile on speeding with the
idea that maintaining a consistent flow at a consistent speed is safer than
a rigidly "enforced" speed limit.

Kev

2000\03\30@224716 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Well, here at Disney, they use to apply a fine white screen (like a
curtain) right in front of the scenes they don't want you to photograph,
despite they ask not to do, several people just flash their cameras
right in middle of a "non-flash-photography-please" show.  What happens,
is that the flash illuminate the fine screen, and the picture will take
only a white curtain, not the scene behind it.

I heard that at Universal Studios, they used in the past large infra-red
lamps pointing to the public at places where photos were not welcome, so
for the film, those lamps just obscure all the scene, but not to the
human eye that can't see infra-red.

Using polarized films over the plate could be a solution, since you
could arrange two films in a way to block 100% of the light to return to
the sender angle. Other light angles would be reflecting more or less
normal, so you could read the plate at day light, since the light comes
from several different angles. Photo flashes are normally assembled
close the the camera, so...  hey I am not saying it works, not even
pushing you to do it, just telling you what physics can do, some can say
that telling the secrets to decode DVD is crime, I would say it is only
transfer of knowledge.

Bill Gates never wonder about those issues, right? and he made *every
person* in this planet give him $18 dollars for his personal fortune...
isn't this amazing? Is this legal?

Wagner.


Adam wrote:
Anyway, I hope these ideas help.  If you succeed, sell it as a tour
camera
protecter.  Some auto plants (and other industries) allow tours, but
don't allow
pictures.  Market it as a safe covering, so the tourists can still see,
but
pictures with flash are black.  Then sell special lighting which is fine
for
eyes, but very poor for non-flash pictures...

-Adam

2000\03\31@033233 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>And I wonder when someone will start noticing that car-to-car or truck-to-car
>distance is probably a LOT more appropriate thing to monitor, instead of
>absolute car speed measurements.

This is done in Israel I believe. There they have cameras which photograph
vehicles following less than 2 or 3 seconds behind the car in front, in the same
manner as speed cameras do.

2000\03\31@074123 by Andrew Kunz

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I know a guy in Canada who wears a Ronald Reagan mask when he drives just for
the effect.  He has a consistent speed trap place that he passes, too.

Andy









Mark Walsh <EraseMEmwalshspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTUSWEST.NET> on 03/30/2000 05:25:08 PM

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cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] Photo Radar Buster   PRB








>  You'll be
> sitting there for an entire day and save maybe 10 people from a > >
ticket?
>
> You did neglect to mention a few details.  Are you required to
> have license
> plates on both ends of the car?  Does the picture get taken from
> the front?
> (these two seem implied, as they like to take pictures of drivers
> as well as the
> license plate)
>

It's illegal not to have a front license plate in Colorado.  The photo is
taken from the front so that the driver can be identified.  The driver gets
the ticket, not the vehicle.

On highway 85 near work they set it up about 3 or 4 times per week and catch
hundreds of drivers going 55 to 60 in 45 zone every time they are out there.
I always drive about 60 to stay with the traffic flow, but just hold up a
map between my face and the radar van as I approach the speed trap.  I've
seen lots of flashes but haven't gotten a ticket yet.

Mark

2000\03\31@161205 by Daniel Hart

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Mark Willis wrote:

> It's not just a choosing not to speed problem, though - sometimes
> speeing up is the BEST thing you can do, to get away from a nutcase,
> when they won't quit tailgating you...  There, the real problem's that
>

I can't resist anymore.
IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we have a "one size fits all" licensing system in a real
world where people have different levels of ability. When you ask everyone to walk as slow as the
slowest member of the party, some people get frustrated and break away. When you enforce this
ridiculous rule with a hammer and support it with biased data (that is looking at a totally
different problem); those who break away become defensive and begin to reform into an "anti" group.
This anti movement led to the recent increase in speed limits, but the problem remains, and will
until it is recognized and addressed. We are not created equally skilled, only equally valued. AND
CARS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL AT ALL! If you drive a car that is safe at 100 MPH and you have trained
to drive at 100 MPH and you have demonstrated that you are a law abiding responsible citizen who
will adjust to conditions and circumstances, you should get a 100 MPH license. You would probably
need a special key and a transponder on the vehicle, but you could drive 100 MPH. Of course if we
had an enlightened robot controlled transportation system you could travel much faster without
driving and be in a better mood when you got to your destination. BUT SO MUCH FOR MY OPINION. Under
current conditions we all need to walk slow so the less able won't feel bad.
Have a great day,
Dan
--
Daniel Hart
Embedded System Design Engineer
NBS Technologies, Inc. (Card Technology Corp.)
70 Eisenhower Drive, Paramus, NJ 07652, USA
+1 201 845 7373 x183    KILLspamdhartKILLspamspamnbstech.com

2000\03\31@162209 by David VanHorn

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>I can't resist anymore.
>IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we have a "one size fits all"
licensing system in a real
>world where people have different levels of ability. When you ask everyone
to walk as slow as the
>slowest member of the party, some people get frustrated and break away.
When you enforce this
>ridiculous rule with a hammer and support it with biased data (that is
looking at a totally
>different problem); those who break away become defensive and begin to
reform into an "anti" group.

Funny, it always worked for us in scout hikes. You put the fast guys in the
back. No gripes, no complaints, and no searching for lost kids.

The only little problem with your scheme is that it is unenforcable.  How
is the cop supposed to tell who has the fast license, and who has the slow
one? (Other than going through the wallets once they find the appropriate
body parts)

I rather like CHP's approach, they tag you for driving like an idiot, no
matter what speed, and leave you alone if you aren't causing trouble.  The
only problem I have with this approach is that the laws are going
unenforced, which encourages people to break other laws.

If you post it, enforce it. IMHO.

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2000\03\31@163638 by Andrew Kunz

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Actually, bringing this back around to PICs, you put the slowest processor at
the front of the data stream, and everybody else will never have to worry about
being overloaded.

I used to work for a company (TSC, Technology Systems Corp (no website that I
could find) [although http://www.tsc.com/ is interesting]) which based its
manufacturing consulting engineering on a book where this was the example.

Andy









David VanHorn <RemoveMEdvanhornTakeThisOuTspamCEDAR.NET> on 03/31/2000 07:15:32 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] Photo Radar Buster PRB








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>I can't resist anymore.
>IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we have a "one size fits all"
licensing system in a real
>world where people have different levels of ability. When you ask everyone
to walk as slow as the
>slowest member of the party, some people get frustrated and break away.
When you enforce this
>ridiculous rule with a hammer and support it with biased data (that is
looking at a totally
>different problem); those who break away become defensive and begin to
reform into an "anti" group.

Funny, it always worked for us in scout hikes. You put the fast guys in the
back. No gripes, no complaints, and no searching for lost kids.

The only little problem with your scheme is that it is unenforcable.  How
is the cop supposed to tell who has the fast license, and who has the slow
one? (Other than going through the wallets once they find the appropriate
body parts)

I rather like CHP's approach, they tag you for driving like an idiot, no
matter what speed, and leave you alone if you aren't causing trouble.  The
only problem I have with this approach is that the laws are going
unenforced, which encourages people to break other laws.

If you post it, enforce it. IMHO.

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2000\03\31@164511 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   I can't resist anymore.  IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we
   have a "one size fits all" licensing system in a real world where
   people have different levels of ability.

Just what we need.  "Skilled drivers" driving 100MPH through a maze of
cars restricted to 50MPH...  Come to think of it, that's about what we
have now, although it's regulated by peoples opinion of themselves
rather than the law.  Causes a lot of accidents...

BillW

2000\03\31@172009 by M. Adam Davis

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I think you may be overlooking the physical and financial restrictions of your
theory.  Sure, it would be nice to license people according to their ability,
but you cannot have 100mph and 60mph on the same roadway without the same
frustration you feel at the speed limit.  You are just transfering your
frustration to the driver in front of you who is limited to 80mph.  Building new
'high speed' roads is not an option, it comes out of all our taxes, even the
taxes of those who can't use them.  This would cause a greater outcry than
yours.

There are numerous other limiting factors.  Bottom line, while the statement
"All men are created equal" is ideal, the actuallity adds, "And if they aren't
we're going to try our best to make them appear equal where some things are
concerned"  (now please only apply this in the context of speed limits and
driving priviledges!!  I don't want to start with that can of worms!)

Personally I think we ought to have a computer in each car which communicates
with the cars in front and behind.  Using a few algorithms it would be easy to
implement a system that would eliminate jams, speed up traffic in general,
simplify merging, etc, etc.  You would still be driving, but your speed would be
controlled by the computer, and braking and turn signals monitered by the
computer, and sent to others around you.

Or, alternately, have the lanes marked.  Far left on a four lane is 70-80MPH,
middle two lanes are 55-70MPH, and far right is 45-55.  Put small sensors in the
pavement which tell the car's speed, and if the driver doesn't stay within the
range (give them a few seconds to allow for lane changes) then use a buried EMP
coil to disable his/her car.  s/he will have to coast off to the side and wait
for a tow truck (which will already be on its way).  The cost of towing and
replacing certian modules will be enough incentive to encourage them to stay
within the bounds of the lane speeds.

All controlled by a lot of PICs, of course.

-Adam

All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are
appalled.

Daniel Hart wrote:
> I can't resist anymore.
> IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we have a "one size fits all" licensing system in a real
> world where people have different levels of ability.

2000\03\31@175309 by David VanHorn

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>Or, alternately, have the lanes marked.  Far left on a four lane is 70-80MPH,
>middle two lanes are 55-70MPH, and far right is 45-55.  Put small sensors
in the
>pavement which tell the car's speed, and if the driver doesn't stay within
the
>range (give them a few seconds to allow for lane changes) then use a
buried EMP
>coil to disable his/her car.  s/he will have to coast off to the side and
wait
>for a tow truck (which will already be on its way).  The cost of towing and
>replacing certian modules will be enough incentive to encourage them to stay
>within the bounds of the lane speeds.


If you're going to mark them, then stripes at a regular time interval could
calibrate a cruise control.
It would be pretty trivial to filter out vandals and road junk, but if you
had the option to set a cruise and KNOW that it was legal, and not going to
creep up or be ceeped up on, I think that would make for a more pleasant
journey.

This also keeps the low-tech stuff on the pavement, and the high tech in
the car, where it's easy to maintain.

(FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road appropriately) :)

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2000\03\31@175524 by Daniel Hart

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William Chops Westfield wrote:

>  Just what we need.  "Skilled drivers" driving 100MPH through a maze of
> cars restricted to 50MPH...  Come to think of it, that's about what we
> have now, although it's regulated by peoples opinion of themselves
> rather than the law.  Causes a lot of accidents...

I agree. What we have now is self regulated speeding, and many of the speeders are very unqualified.
I have driven at least a half million miles (no exaggeration), most of them in high speed traffic. I
am much more qualified than most to do this, but that doesn't matter, because there are no levels of
qualification. As I said earlier, there will be no change until we recognize that we're looking at
the wrong problem. Most ignore the law because it is too restrictive, and the law can't be loosened
because it must fit all. When the law is tailored to fit, then it will be obeyed, or at least it can
be enforced. We are negotiating many millions of hours of lost productivity, so the current law will
not be enforced reasonably. It will occasionally be enforced unreasonably for political reasons (or
to enhance revenue), but in a way that will not condition drivers to slow down.

Of course we will never really agree, will we? I'd like to see robot cars on smart highways and no
drivers. And I'd like them all to be controlled by distributed networks of PICs. And I'd like us all
to do very well by the project. But Monday I will probably be very tempted to exceed the speed limit
on my way to work, if the slowpoke in front of me will just get out of my way! And no I have not had
a lot of accidents and the ones I've had were in snow and at low speeds.

And I am certainly NOT in favor of using artificial means to circumvent the law, only in changing
it.
Have a great weekend,
Dan

--

Daniel Hart
Embedded System Design Engineer
NBS Technologies, Inc. (Card Technology Corp.)
70 Eisenhower Drive, Paramus, NJ 07652, USA
+1 201 845 7373 x183    RemoveMEdhartspamTakeThisOuTnbstech.com

2000\03\31@180553 by Daniel Hart

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Your probably right, but I was thinking more like 80 vs 67.5 vs 55 or 75/65/55 depending on the car,
the inspection interval, the training of the driver etc. The higher speed license would require more
frequent inspections and requalification and of course a transponder to which the license is the key.
Technically feasible, politically unacceptable. - Dan

"M. Adam Davis" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Daniel Hart

2000\03\31@181014 by Daniel Hart

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I think road music is off topic. -- Dan

David VanHorn wrote:

> (FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road appropriately) :)

--
Daniel Hart

2000\03\31@181422 by David VanHorn

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At 06:07 PM 3/31/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I think road music is off topic. -- Dan
>
>David VanHorn wrote:
>
>> (FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road
appropriately) :)

Can you be busted for being off-topic in an off-topic thread?
(If a thread falls in the forest, does the bear become a catholic?)
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2000\03\31@184139 by wsiemens

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Daniel Hart wrote:
> I can't resist anymore.
> IN MY OPINION, the REAL PROBLEM is that we have a "one size fits all"
licensing system in a real
> world where people have different levels of ability.

I love this thread even though it is way off topic!
The real problem won't be solved by different licenses. Drivers do have
different abilities but to a certain degree that doesn't matter. The problem
is that drivers do NOT pay any attention to driving their vehicle and have
zero respect or courtesy for other motorists. We already have a fast lane on
most hiways, but does it help? ... If all drivers were able to conceptualize
traffic flow as a whole, they might be able to place their automobile in the
correct lane to enhance the flow instead of hinder it. But, they would
actually have to pay attention to accomplish this and North Americans in
general are lazy drivers (from my limited experience).

OPICC: If all vehicles were controlled by PICs I for one would miss the
pleasure of driving.

Wendall

2000\03\31@205820 by Mark Willis

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David VanHorn wrote:
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>
> At 06:07 PM 3/31/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >I think road music is off topic. -- Dan
> >
> >David VanHorn wrote:
> >
> >> (FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road
> appropriately) :)
>
> Can you be busted for being off-topic in an off-topic thread?
> (If a thread falls in the forest, does the bear become a catholic?)

Just WHERE, exactly, did we Admins EVER promise to be reasonable,
helpful, or appropriate in any way whatsoever, folks?  <VBEG>

I want to buy stock in paving companies and pavement saw manufacturing
companies if we're going to use road grooving for music.  I can see it
now, the Golden Oldies lane, the C&W lane, and the shoulder is the 1812
Overture lane...  <EG>

 Mark

2000\03\31@214707 by David VanHorn

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>I want to buy stock in paving companies and pavement saw manufacturing
>companies if we're going to use road grooving for music.  I can see it
>now, the Golden Oldies lane, the C&W lane, and the shoulder is the 1812
>Overture lane...  <EG>
>
>  Mark


Finally!!! A USE FOR POTHLES!!!


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2000\03\31@222856 by Lea

picon face
about a day ago you wrote:
>I live in Denver, Colorado and recently the benevolent authorities have
>activated photo radar in Denver.  I plan a three-fold attack on this technology
>and I am looking for suggestions (citicisms) and any data you gurus might
>have on Photo Radar.  I have no specs on PR.

Hi, I designed a Digital photo radar about a year ago for a customer, this one
does not use photography, It take the image dititalizing a video image and
send it over a radio link to the a police area, about 1 mile ahead, so when
you croses that area, they already have the printed form with you photo :-).
well , you must ask how it detects speed first, mine uses microwave, and
one way is putting 2 microwave gunn emitter at the top and bottom of the
right side of you car (in my country radar detectors are always
at right side), transmitting pulses, 100- 400 Hz pulses will work, keep in
mind that this one should not be visible or you can be busted :-).
I had put this devices inside of the optics of my car, and they work fine.
(24.125Ghz Gunn Tx), if you found similar devices but with more power, would
be better :-).

Laser radars are difficult to deflect, so I dont know how to do that.

>1)  Car mounted white-out
>The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.  Upon this
>detection, flash tubes located around the license plate would activate and
> wash out the view of the plate.  This could also be done for the driver
>location in the photo.

If it uses flash will work in the night only, just put a slave flash detector
at both sides, and when the original flash lites, yours too :-), manual
activation will not be accurately.

>2)  Faux plate number
>The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.
> Upon this detection, an LCD covering the license plate would activate
>and display a fake message such as the license plate number for the mayor
>of Denver.  Or maybe a "Save the Whales" kind of thing.

JAAAAAAAAAAAAAJJJJJJJJJJAAAAAAAAAJJJAAAAAAAAJAAAJAAJAAJAAJAAJAAJAAA.
ROFL really bad :-)))!!!.

I use PICs to control this.  What do you think ?

Another thing that you can do, is to install 2 powerull XEON lamps at each
side of the licence, front and rear, and flash this ones at 10 flash x second
when you detect signal from the radar detector, not very cheaper solution
but... will work if there is no too much sunlight.( most of the Autoiris lenses
for radar use, are slow to avoid that a car reflection closes the iris too
much and the obtained image be too dark. keep it in mind.

see you.
  Leandro J. Laporta (LU2AOQ)      mail: lu2aoqEraseMEspam.....yahoo.com
wrk: Arg. Assoc. for Space Tech.    ham: TCP/IP high speed group HSG


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2000\03\31@230442 by Mark Newland

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face
Lea wrote:

> Laser radars are difficult to deflect, so I dont know how to do that.

Been there, done that.  Jammed to over a 1/4 mile away.  Have a sensor detecting for
Lidar pulses.  As soon as you receive one, send a WHOLE bunch of simular pulses
back.  Problem was that the pulses were about 20nS and was pumping about 15 Amps
thru the laser diode as well.  Just not possible with a PIC.


'[OT] Photo Radar Buster PRB'
2000\04\01@061231 by Dr. Imre Bartfai
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Daniel Hart wrote:
>
> Technically feasible, politically unacceptable. - Dan

Congratulation! That is the key sentence!

It is possible now e. g. to implant a transponder every baby at birth. It
would mean a lot of advantages (e. g. in Hungary, here, you can go easily
into the jail for six month if you do not have (i. e. do not wear)
actually the Personal Identification Booklet (recently Card) on the
street, even as a pedestrian.). But, due to the possibly misuse from the
state's side it is politically unacceptable.

Of course, the circumstances change and there can be horrible exceptions.
In the 1st half of 40s there were a lot of countries in Europe where it
was politically acceptable to let some people to wear a yellow star on
their clothes, or they were practically prosecuted.

Generally seen, if something is regulated by legislation, it should be
also changed, whether all the people will follow the regulation, and
whether it is possible to make (or to buy) exceptions. Imagine what would
happen if a person who is able to drive 60 mph only could buy a license
for 100 mph with paying the appropriate clerk. And how would you (the
legislator) to stop this?

Regards,
Imre

2000\04\01@085032 by paulb

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face
David VanHorn wrote:

> (FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road
> appropriately) :)

 The *perfect* tune came to mind.

 Unfortunately, *none* of the MIDI files I have spent the last two
hours examining do it the slightest justice.
   http://www.spacejam.de/kraftwerk/autobahn.mid
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

2000\04\01@114919 by Dale Botkin

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On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:

>   The *perfect* tune came to mind.
>
>   Unfortunately, *none* of the MIDI files I have spent the last two
> hours examining do it the slightest justice.

Yeccch, you're certainly right about that!

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

2000\04\02@092149 by Marc

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face
> >And I wonder when someone will start noticing that car-to-car or truck-to-car
> >distance is probably a LOT more appropriate thing to monitor, instead of
> >absolute car speed measurements.
>
> This is done in Israel I believe. There they have cameras which photograph
> vehicles following less than 2 or 3 seconds behind the car in front, in the same
> manner as speed cameras do.

It's done in Germany, too.  Both stationary from bridges, and mobile from video
equipped cars.

The stations trigger when two cars pass with too little time in between and
take 2 photos (or a video) to prove whether the 2nd car was breaking or not.

Mobile doesn't work well at night, because the car shape is required to be visible
for exact distance calculation.

2000\04\02@170443 by w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman

picon face
> > This is done in Israel I believe. There they have cameras which
photograph
> > vehicles following less than 2 or 3 seconds behind the car in front, in
the same
> > manner as speed cameras do.
>
> It's done in Germany, too.  Both stationary from bridges, and mobile from
video
> equipped cars.

The German system will be introduced in Holland.

2000\04\02@185612 by Lou

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face
 Can you tell me a bit more about how the laser radar works? I am an EE, so
don't worry about getting too technical. I assume it sends out a laser
burst, about 10-100ns long, and looks for the "echo" -- and likely dose this
a thousand or so times, averaging the results to eliminate as much noise as
possible. -- then it dose this a second time, and computes speed.   M
question is, what is the PRF and pulse width of the laser pulses? how good
is the correlation? How hard would it be to jam it?

 -- thanks!,
      Lou
{Original Message removed}

2000\04\02@194852 by Mark Newland

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Unfortunately I don't have the specs on how a LiDar works.  I was just the
engineering tech on the project.  The Engineers just told me what the specs were
for the jammer so it could block the LiDar system.  Original specs were for 15nS
pulses but we ended up with 20nS which still worked but caused 25% more heat.
The pulse rate of the jammer was only about 2 kHz if I remember right (VERY VERY
small duty cycle) so the LiDar must have been at a slower freq than that.

The jammer never tried to stop laser pulses from hitting the car and bouncing
back.  Too hard to do that.  But after the first pulse from the LiDar would hit
and get reflected, the jammer would send out a LONG string of pulses back  The
1st pulse from the jammer would get to the LiDar gun before the 2nd pulse from
the LiDar could get reflected.  Confused the hell out of the LiDar.  I never
worked on the project after the first prototype so don't know what happened to
it but we could only operate it for about 10 seconds before it heated up too
much.  15 amps thru a Laser diode is an awful lot.

Lou wrote:

>   Can you tell me a bit more about how the laser radar works? I am an EE, so
> don't worry about getting too technical. I assume it sends out a laser
> burst, about 10-100ns long, and looks for the "echo" -- and likely dose this
> a thousand or so times, averaging the results to eliminate as much noise as
> possible. -- then it dose this a second time, and computes speed.   M
> question is, what is the PRF and pulse width of the laser pulses? how good
> is the correlation? How hard would it be to jam it?
>
>   -- thanks!,
>        Lou
> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\03@040527 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>question is, what is the PRF and pulse width of the laser pulses? how good
>is the correlation? How hard would it be to jam it?

I believe the newest units indicate to the officer that they are being jammed.
Check this site under details of the laser specifications, especially the Riegl
FG21-P
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/

2000\04\03@071543 by Andrew Kunz

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face
Or, if a man is alone in a forest with no women around, and he says something,
is he still wrong?

Andy

PS - My wife says yes.








David VanHorn <EraseMEdvanhornspamCEDAR.NET> on 03/31/2000 09:07:13 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] Photo Radar Buster PRB








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At 06:07 PM 3/31/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I think road music is off topic. -- Dan
>
>David VanHorn wrote:
>
>> (FWIW: I think you can also play music by grooving the road
appropriately) :)

Can you be busted for being off-topic in an off-topic thread?
(If a thread falls in the forest, does the bear become a catholic?)
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