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'[OT] Photo Radar Buster PRB'
2000\03\30@145307 by wft

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Greetings

I live in Denver, Colorado and recently the benevolent authorities have
activated photo radar in Denver.  I plan a three-fold attack on this technology
and I am looking for suggestions (citicisms) and any data you gurus might
have on Photo Radar.  I have no specs on PR.
Sorry if this has been discussed before.

1)  Car mounted white-out
The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.  Upon this
detection, flash tubes located around the license plate would activate and wash
out the view of the plate.  This could also be done for the driver location in t
he
photo.

2)  Faux plate number
The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.  Upon this
detection, an LCD covering the license plate would activate and display a fake
message such as the license plate number for the mayor of Denver.  Or maybe a
"Save the Whales" kind of thing.

3)  Multi-car whiteout
I position myself downrange from the PR unit.  Using a scope, I sight in on the
camera(s).  Each time a flash occurs, a concentrated, aimed beam of light from
a (flash unit, laser, ???) hits the camera and wipes out the photo.  Many motori
sts
would be spared a ticket.

I use PICs to control this.  What do you think ?

Gus



--
Gus Calabrese    Lola Montes      WFT Electronics
4337 Raleigh Street      Denver, CO 80212
303 964-9670......voicemail        fax  (see below)
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2000\03\30@150735 by Mike Werner

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On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 12:46:11PM -0700, Gus Calabrese wrote:
> Greetings
>
> I live in Denver, Colorado and recently the benevolent authorities have
> activated photo radar in Denver.  I plan a three-fold attack on this technology
> and I am looking for suggestions (citicisms) and any data you gurus might
> have on Photo Radar.  I have no specs on PR.
> Sorry if this has been discussed before.
>
> 1)  Car mounted white-out
> The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.  Upon this
> detection, flash tubes located around the license plate would activate and wash
> out the view of the plate.  This could also be done for the driver location in t
> he
> photo.

Dangerous to other motorists and probably illegal.

> 2)  Faux plate number
> The automobile would have a sensor that would detect photoflashes.  Upon this
> detection, an LCD covering the license plate would activate and display a fake
> message such as the license plate number for the mayor of Denver.  Or maybe a
> "Save the Whales" kind of thing.

Almost certainly illegal.

> 3)  Multi-car whiteout
> I position myself downrange from the PR unit.  Using a scope, I sight in on the
> camera(s).  Each time a flash occurs, a concentrated, aimed beam of light from
> a (flash unit, laser, ???) hits the camera and wipes out the photo.  Many motori
> sts
> would be spared a ticket.

Probably illegal.

> I use PICs to control this.  What do you think ?

Dangerous, irresponsible, and illegal.  But at least it was marked [OT].
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
ICQ# 12934898                 |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

2000\03\30@152059 by l.allen

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>
> I live in Denver, Colorado and recently the benevolent authorities have
> activated photo radar in Denver.  I plan a three-fold attack on this technology
> and I am looking for suggestions (citicisms) and any data you gurus might
> have on Photo Radar.  I have no specs on PR.
> Sorry if this has been discussed before.
>
You could use a PIC to record how many people die from
excess speed.
With a special column for the children.

Data I have on Photo Radar?
I know speed kills, destroys families and leaves
countless disabled.




_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\03\30@155055 by David VanHorn

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>I use PICs to control this.  What do you think ?


I think you should get used to the idea of community living.

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2000\03\30@170131 by M. Adam Davis
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Well, aside from moral and legal issues (and the obvious, "Well, if you're not
speeding, why do you care?"), here are my thoughts:

If they get photos which have the license plate washed out they can either
attribute it to glare, or place some officers there to find out what's going
on.  Likely they will look on your activities as illegal, and there are several
traffic laws which prohibit bright lights, strobes, flashing lights, etc on
civilian cars.

Second, the timing may be a difficult thing to figure out.  The reaction time of
your LCD may be longer than the camera needs (I suspect they use a high-speed
film, though they probably use a mechanical shutter).  Of course, with this
option you are automatically illegal - you are not allowed to place *anything*
over your license plate (though you may not get pulled over for it), and
obscuring or 'spoofing' your license plate and number are certianly grounds for
license revocation.

Thirdly, are you really so incensed at this type of enforcment that you are
willing to spend time and energy to create equipment which will wipe out the
photo/obscure your license/etc?  Your third option sounds boring - it's not as
though the camera is going to go off more than a few times an hour.  You'll be
sitting there for an entire day and save maybe 10 people from a ticket?

You did neglect to mention a few details.  Are you required to have license
plates on both ends of the car?  Does the picture get taken from the front?
(these two seem implied, as they like to take pictures of drivers as well as the
license plate)

I think the most you could get away with is putting a liquid crystal window in
front of your license plate, and having it turn on for any flashes brighter than
ambient conditions.  The blacking of the lcd will be barely perceptable to the
human eye, but all the photos would come up with your license plate censered.
The only other problem being the LCD isn't perfectly clear, and heat can blacken
it, causing you to be pulled over and questions being asked.

That doesn't help with your picture being taken, and if it happens more than
once they'll watch out for you.

Of course, you could look at this analytically.  The time you may save by going
5-10 over the speed limit would most certianly be used up by the time you would
spend working on and trying out this project, not to mention the cost of
materials.

Testing is also a big issue.  You can try it in home with a camera, but if you
try it out there and it doesn't work...  Well, I guess that's a development
cost.  You likely won't be able to sell the unit very successfully either.

Anyway, I hope these ideas help.  If you succeed, sell it as a tour camera
protecter.  Some auto plants (and other industries) allow tours, but don't allow
pictures.  Market it as a safe covering, so the tourists can still see, but
pictures with flash are black.  Then sell special lighting which is fine for
eyes, but very poor for non-flash pictures...

-Adam


Gus Calabrese wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\03\30@172831 by Mark Walsh

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>  You'll be
> sitting there for an entire day and save maybe 10 people from a > >
ticket?
>
> You did neglect to mention a few details.  Are you required to
> have license
> plates on both ends of the car?  Does the picture get taken from
> the front?
> (these two seem implied, as they like to take pictures of drivers
> as well as the
> license plate)
>

It's illegal not to have a front license plate in Colorado.  The photo is
taken from the front so that the driver can be identified.  The driver gets
the ticket, not the vehicle.

On highway 85 near work they set it up about 3 or 4 times per week and catch
hundreds of drivers going 55 to 60 in 45 zone every time they are out there.
I always drive about 60 to stay with the traffic flow, but just hold up a
map between my face and the radar van as I approach the speed trap.  I've
seen lots of flashes but haven't gotten a ticket yet.

Mark

2000\03\30@180004 by Sean Breheny

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It seems to me that someone could argue that it should be illegal for the
POLICE to flash lights in people's faces as they drive! After all,it
affects more than the speeder.

Sean

At 03:25 PM 3/30/00 -0700, you wrote:
>map between my face and the radar van as I approach the speed trap.  I've
>seen lots of flashes but haven't gotten a ticket yet.
>
>Mark
>
|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
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2000\03\30@204625 by David VanHorn

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At 05:58 PM 3/30/00 -0500, Sean Breheny wrote:
>It seems to me that someone could argue that it should be illegal for the
>POLICE to flash lights in people's faces as they drive! After all,it
>affects more than the speeder.

On that OT, has anyone noticed that the police cars seem to be adding
lights geometrically?
(as in they have more lights now than vegas, and still climbing)

I know what they are trying to solve, but I think they have passed the
point of benifit.
I know that when I am driving past an accident scene, it's hard to see
anything BUT their flashing lights, like maybe someone standing in the
road, or debris that might be there.

I've seen zoned-out motorists drive right through cones, despite four
cruisers with lights (almost took out a fireman and the victim in mid
extraction) so I'm pretty sure that the number of lights isn't helping..


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2000\03\31@024921 by Patrick J

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> It's illegal not to have a front license plate in Colorado.  The photo is
> taken from the front so that the driver can be identified.  The driver gets
> the ticket, not the vehicle.
>
> On highway 85 near work they set it up about 3 or 4 times per week and catch
> hundreds of drivers going 55 to 60 in 45 zone every time they are out there.
> I always drive about 60 to stay with the traffic flow, but just hold up a
> map between my face and the radar van as I approach the speed trap.  I've
> seen lots of flashes but haven't gotten a ticket yet.
> Mark

Do they do pattern recognizing from the pic of your face !?!?

2000\03\31@025521 by Alan B Pearce

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>I use PICs to control this.  What do you think ?

how about using a pic as a speed limiter on your car to keep within the speed
limit? It is safer for everyone and most of the other items have been tried at
various times and found to not work.

2000\03\31@040419 by Alan B Pearce

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For those who have people following too close, why not have a PIC scroll a
message across your rear window "PANIC STOP TEST IN 10 SECONDS" and then start
counting down the seconds.

2000\03\31@135256 by Mark Willis

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Problem, Alan;  That's really NOT much of a threat when I'm driving my
Rabbit and the guy tailgating me is driving a huge 4x4 1-ton pickup!
I'd scratch his undercarriage as he went over me, and I really would NOT
enjoy the experience much...  (I live out in the "sticks" here, 2-lane
country road for ~20 miles to here - THE answer is probably to buy a
Tank Ammo Carrier, then display that same message, that'd be a "credible
threat", as those're built pretty solid - my fuel economy would be bad
though <G>

I've seriously thought of getting a large bottle of Halon 1211 and a
manifold in the rear of my car for tailgaters;  They tailgate, I
extinguish their engine...  It's a thought <G>

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> For those who have people following too close, why not have a PIC scroll a
> message across your rear window "PANIC STOP TEST IN 10 SECONDS" and then start
> counting down the seconds.

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
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