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PICList Thread
'[OT] PS2 port driver problem'
2006\03\04@121505 by KY1K

picon face
Hi Everyone,

I have a problem with my PC, which is a new XP system.

I'm trying to hook up a cuecat (simple wedge type barcode scanner) to
my new XP system. In the old system (Win 98), I could simply plug the
cuecat into the PS2 port, and it would work. In the new system, when
I plug the cuecat in, nothing happens.

When I hook up a keyboard and cuecat (together in a wedge
configuration), the keyboard and cuecat both work and I can scan
barcodes all day long.

But, I'm using a USB keyboard, so the PS2 cuecat wedge device is the
sole input to the PS2 port. The system seems to know the cuecat is
not a keyboard, so the HID (human Interface Device) driver is not
loaded (I think), so the cuecat does nothing but sit there. It
receives power from the PS2 port, but does nothing when I scan a barcode.

Does anyone have any idea how to make XP recognize/think that there
is a KB attached to the PS2 port?

Thanks,

Art


2006\03\04@123943 by David VanHorn

picon face
There is a conversation that happens between the keyboard and the system.
Check around for the protocol docs, that's where you'll find it.

2006\03\04@124145 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 3/4/06, KY1K <spam_OUTky1kTakeThisOuTspampivot.net> wrote:
> But, I'm using a USB keyboard, so the PS2 cuecat wedge device is the
> sole input to the PS2 port. The system seems to know the cuecat is
> not a keyboard, so the HID (human Interface Device) driver is not
> loaded (I think), so the cuecat does nothing but sit there. It
> receives power from the PS2 port, but does nothing when I scan a barcode.
>
> Does anyone have any idea how to make XP recognize/think that there
> is a KB attached to the PS2 port?

I had a similar issue with a Posiflex POS keyboard. I think the issue
is that the wedge is waiting to tack its own messages onto the stream
from the regular keyboard. A real keyboard is needed to identify
itself to the computer. With no regular keyboard, the computer doesn't
know anything is sitting on the ps/2 port. I've toyed with the idea of
making a small PIC based circuit that just identified itself as a
keyboard and didn't do anything else specifically for this type of
application. Haven't ever done that though...

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\03\04@124723 by Robert Ammerman

picon face
Just plug in an old keyboard.

Or gut one and just use the pieces you need to make a 'fake keyboard'.

Or use a KVM switch to provide a faked keyboard connection.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


----- Original Message -----
From: "David VanHorn" <.....dvanhornKILLspamspam@spam@microbrix.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] PS2 port driver problem


> There is a conversation that happens between the keyboard and the system.
> Check around for the protocol docs, that's where you'll find it.
> --

2006\03\04@204518 by KY1K

picon face
OK, thanks to all who commented.

There should be a software solution, having to build hardware just to
facilitate the operating system sucks.

Anyway, I found a device that fakes out the computer by simulating a
keyboard, but it's expensive.

Here's the URL, for those interested.

It's a pricey lil' buggar, aint it??!!

http://www.waspbarcode.com/barcode_accessories/keyboard_terminator.asp

Regards,

Art

PS:What is 'protocol docs'?? How do I find 'protocol docs'??? Do you
mean on the Microsoft website, or do you mean in the list archive?




At 12:39 PM 3/4/2006, you wrote:
>There is a conversation that happens between the keyboard and the system.
>Check around for the protocol docs, that's where you'll find it.

2006\03\04@220918 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> PS:What is 'protocol docs'?? How do I find 'protocol docs'??? Do you
> mean on the Microsoft website, or do you mean in the list archive?


Google:  PC Keyboard protocol

http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm

2006\03\04@233412 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 20:44 -0500, KY1K wrote:
> OK, thanks to all who commented.
>
> There should be a software solution, having to build hardware just to
> facilitate the operating system sucks.
>
> Anyway, I found a device that fakes out the computer by simulating a
> keyboard, but it's expensive.
>
> Here's the URL, for those interested.
>
> It's a pricey lil' buggar, aint it??!!
>
> http://www.waspbarcode.com/barcode_accessories/keyboard_terminator.asp

Get one of those "switchless" KVMs, the kind where you hit a keyboard
button to switch machines. Can be had for about $20.

Honestly though, a PS/2 keyboard can be had for <$10, I don't really see
why not simply plugging a keyboard in and being done with it isn't the
best solution.

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\03\05@040217 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:44:40 -0500, KY1K wrote:

> OK, thanks to all who commented.
>
> There should be a software solution, having to build
hardware just to
> facilitate the operating system sucks.

I blame Bill Gates...

> Anyway, I found a device that fakes out the computer
by simulating a
> keyboard, but it's expensive.
>
> Here's the URL, for those interested.
>
> It's a pricey lil' buggar, aint it??!!

And it specifies that it only supports Windows - I'd
have thought that the initialisation process would be
OpSys independant - KVM switches certainly manage - but
I've never looked into it.  

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\03\05@100420 by KY1K

picon face
Yes, you are right, almost.

We are fond of the hotkeys found on the Microsoft Keyboard Pro and
newer keyboards (user progarmmable macro and hot key buttons). The
newer keyboards are ergonomic, have the user programmable hot keys
and are relatively cheap. However, the newer keyboards tend to have
USB connectors, finding a deluxe keyboard with the features we like
and a PS2 plug is nearly impossible.

If deluxe KB's had PS2 plugs, I'd just buy a new KB (as you suggest).

Regards,

Art



>Honestly though, a PS/2 keyboard can be had for <$10, I don't really see
>why not simply plugging a keyboard in and being done with it isn't the
>best solution.

2006\03\05@101254 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 10:04 -0500, KY1K wrote:
> Yes, you are right, almost.
>
> We are fond of the hotkeys found on the Microsoft Keyboard Pro and
> newer keyboards (user progarmmable macro and hot key buttons). The
> newer keyboards are ergonomic, have the user programmable hot keys
> and are relatively cheap. However, the newer keyboards tend to have
> USB connectors, finding a deluxe keyboard with the features we like
> and a PS2 plug is nearly impossible.
>
> If deluxe KB's had PS2 plugs, I'd just buy a new KB (as you suggest).

Keep you USB keyboard, plug in a cheapo PS/2 keyboard. All OS's I've
used work fine in this config (i.e. both keyboards are recognized and
work).

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\03\05@103932 by KY1K

picon face
At 10:12 AM 3/5/2006, you wrote:
>On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 10:04 -0500, KY1K wrote:
> > Yes, you are right, almost.
> >
> > We are fond of the hotkeys found on the Microsoft Keyboard Pro and
> > newer keyboards (user progarmmable macro and hot key buttons). The
> > newer keyboards are ergonomic, have the user programmable hot keys
> > and are relatively cheap. However, the newer keyboards tend to have
> > USB connectors, finding a deluxe keyboard with the features we like
> > and a PS2 plug is nearly impossible.
> >
> > If deluxe KB's had PS2 plugs, I'd just buy a new KB (as you suggest).
>
>Keep you USB keyboard, plug in a cheapo PS/2 keyboard. All OS's I've
>used work fine in this config (i.e. both keyboards are recognized and
>work).

Although adding an old kb is cheap, the bulk and inconvenience factor
makes it impractical.



2006\03\05@114510 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 3/5/06, KY1K <.....ky1kKILLspamspam.....pivot.net> wrote:
> Although adding an old kb is cheap, the bulk and inconvenience factor
> makes it impractical.

The full keyboard is large. The PCB inside that you need to identify
itself to the host computer is small. Buy a cheap PS/2 keyboard, open
it up, harvest only what you need, and put it in a small box with the
cable hanging out the side.

That's essentially what the little Wasp thing is...

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\03\05@125727 by Peter

picon face

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006, Josh Koffman wrote:

> On 3/4/06, KY1K <EraseMEky1kspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpivot.net> wrote:
>> But, I'm using a USB keyboard, so the PS2 cuecat wedge device is the
>> sole input to the PS2 port. The system seems to know the cuecat is
>> not a keyboard, so the HID (human Interface Device) driver is not
>> loaded (I think), so the cuecat does nothing but sit there. It
>> receives power from the PS2 port, but does nothing when I scan a barcode.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea how to make XP recognize/think that there
>> is a KB attached to the PS2 port?
>
> I had a similar issue with a Posiflex POS keyboard. I think the issue
> is that the wedge is waiting to tack its own messages onto the stream
> from the regular keyboard. A real keyboard is needed to identify
> itself to the computer. With no regular keyboard, the computer doesn't
> know anything is sitting on the ps/2 port. I've toyed with the idea of
> making a small PIC based circuit that just identified itself as a
> keyboard and didn't do anything else specifically for this type of
> application. Haven't ever done that though...

The pc will id the keyboard at the latest when the OS boots, by sending
a PS/2 enq sequence and waiting for an answer. Yet, some PS/2
peripherals can be hot plugged (not recommended but ...)

Peter

2006\03\05@131157 by KY1K

picon face
Now you're talking Josh!!!!!

I have been using google and found some pictures of what's inside a
keyboard. Many use multiple PCB's, with the keys on one large PCB and
the encoder chip on another. It's clear that I only need the encoder
pcb, which can be quite small.

I'm not sure if the inputs have to be terminated once the keypad
connector is removed though. But, I'll take a look.

Sure seems like there should be a software solution tho.....having to
add hardware to circumvent a software problem seems 'backwards' to me::>

Your mileage will vary::>

Regards,

Art


At 11:45 AM 3/5/2006, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>

2006\03\05@185916 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 3/5/06, KY1K <@spam@ky1kKILLspamspampivot.net> wrote:
> Now you're talking Josh!!!!!
>
> I have been using google and found some pictures of what's inside a
> keyboard. Many use multiple PCB's, with the keys on one large PCB and
> the encoder chip on another. It's clear that I only need the encoder
> pcb, which can be quite small.
>
> I'm not sure if the inputs have to be terminated once the keypad
> connector is removed though. But, I'll take a look.
>
> Sure seems like there should be a software solution tho.....having to
> add hardware to circumvent a software problem seems 'backwards' to me::>

The thing is, I don't see it as a software problem. The devices in
question (a keyboard wedge) is specifically designed to fit in between
a keyboard and a computer. When you remove the keyboard....all bets
are off. My guess is that the computer might freak out it if gets two
devices identifying themselves on one port, so the wedge just doesn't
identify itself.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\03\06@030236 by Ling SM

picon face

>>>Does anyone have any idea how to make XP recognize/think that there
>>>is a KB attached to the PS2 port?

Have you tried to disable the KB auto detect feature in the BIOS to see
if this help?  But if it a Mouse, it is different story as it needs an
enable command before it can start working (code=F4).

Ling SM


2006\03\06@054902 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> PS:What is 'protocol docs'?? How do I find
>> 'protocol docs'??? Do you mean on the Microsoft
>> website, or do you mean in the list archive?
>
>
>Google:  PC Keyboard protocol

Even better, google "PIC PC Keyboard" and you find sites like this
www.electronic-engineering.ch/microchip/projects/keyboard/v1xx/keyboard_v1xx.html
which should allow you to make a suitable "terminator" using a small PIC.

2006\03\06@125351 by KY1K

picon face
At 03:01 AM 3/6/2006, you wrote:

> >>>Does anyone have any idea how to make XP recognize/think that there
> >>>is a KB attached to the PS2 port?
>
>Have you tried to disable the KB auto detect feature in the BIOS to see
>if this help?  But if it a Mouse, it is different story as it needs an
>enable command before it can start working (code=F4).

Hi Ling,

Yes, I looked over the entire bios and didn't see anything the looked
like a PS2 or keyboard entry.

I did see a command to enable/disable Plug and Play, but it had no effect.

Regards,

Art



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