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'[OT] PDF insecurity, was Resume feedback?'
2005\06\20@094814 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>That of course depends. You can print your document, scan it, and
>convert the scan to pdf. Maybe there is a more dircet way to do this.
>The result can of course be modified dircetly with graphic tools, or
>indirectly by doing OCR first, but neither is as easy as modifying a
>'text' document like word or plain (character mode) pdf.

Of course you realise that a PDF reader "gives" you all the tools you need
to get the text out - just click the "T" in the toolbar, and copy
highlighted text to clipboard.

Graphics I haven't got involved with, but there is probably a similarly easy
way without doing a printscreen to get a BMP image.

2005\06\20@101704 by Steven W

flavicon
face
I have a feeling people don't realize there is a difference between Adobe
Reader and Adobe Acrobat. Adobe Acrobat allows direct editing of PDFs.

{Original Message removed}

2005\06\20@104111 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I have a feeling people don't realize there is a difference
>between Adobe Reader and Adobe Acrobat. Adobe Acrobat allows
>direct editing of PDFs.

Oh, sure, but I was pointing out that you can retrieve the text using the
free reader without coughing up for the writer version. Others have since
pointed out that printing to an eps printer, using "print to file" again
allows "recovery" of everything, again without spending a penny on software.

2005\06\20@170132 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 20, 2005, at 7:19 AM, Steven W wrote:

> I have a feeling people don't realize there is a difference between
> Adobe
> Reader and Adobe Acrobat. Adobe Acrobat allows direct editing of PDFs.

If the PDFs "permit" such access.  My impression is that acrobat
includes
quite of bit of digital rights management capability (assuming you use
real acrobat software for creating the document; I suspect ghostscript's
ps to pdf capability doesn't include many options.  For instance, I have
some NDA documents that are encrypted, require a password via an acrobat
plugin everytime I look at them, and appear to have expiration dates as
well.

> Of course you realise that a PDF reader "gives" you all the tools you
> need
> to get the text out - just click the "T" in the toolbar, and copy
> highlighted text to clipboard.
>
I have certainly read PDF documents that turned off the ability to
select
and copy text when read with acrobat reader, although I'm having trouble
finding an example.  I don't know if all pdf readers honor such requests
in a document.  It would certainly be difficult to implement full DRM
on a document that doesn't require a private key somewhere...

BillW

2005\06\20@180047 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 02:01 PM 6/20/2005 -0700, you wrote:


>I have certainly read PDF documents that turned off the ability to select
>and copy text when read with acrobat reader, although I'm having trouble
>finding an example.  I don't know if all pdf readers honor such requests
>in a document.  It would certainly be difficult to implement full DRM
>on a document that doesn't require a private key somewhere...

Printing Microchip DS39605B to PS file yields this fragment:-


%%BeginDocument: Pscript_Win_PassThrough
% Removing the following eight lines is illegal, subject to the Digital
Copyright Act of 1998.
mark currentfile eexec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(eexec is the Postscript command to execute an encrypted file)

That (Microchip) PDF datsheet has modification prohibited.

It's rather weak technically, but the DMCA is perhaps not so weak.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2005\06\20@195332 by Jim Korman

flavicon
face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

One good example, the pdf version of Everyday Practical Electronics
magazine. About all I can do is read and print.

Jim

2005\06\20@212455 by Timothy J. Weber

face
flavicon
face
I worked on some of the DRM stuff in Acrobat.  It was a while ago and
I've forgotten most of the details, but in general - there has never
been an unbreakable DRM solution for anything, but I think Acrobat's is
pretty decent.  Its signing and encryption modules are cryptographically
strong (if you use them right), but DRM is more a matter of making it
take more time and effort to get at something, not impossible.

And yes, it's a public format, so if a file is readable by a third-party
implementation, edit/print permissions are granted at that
implementation's whim.

Bottom line: PDF files are read-only to the vast majority of users, but
not to all.

William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Timothy J. Weber                 http://www.lightlink.com/tjweber
.....tjweberKILLspamspam@spam@lightlink.com

2005\06\21@092053 by Steven W

flavicon
face
"...but the DMCA is perhaps not so weak..."

LOL

-Steve W

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu] On Behalf Of
Spehro Pefhany
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 6:06 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT] PDF insecurity, was Resume feedback?

At 02:01 PM 6/20/2005 -0700, you wrote:


>I have certainly read PDF documents that turned off the ability to select
>and copy text when read with acrobat reader, although I'm having trouble
>finding an example.  I don't know if all pdf readers honor such requests
>in a document.  It would certainly be difficult to implement full DRM
>on a document that doesn't require a private key somewhere...

Printing Microchip DS39605B to PS file yields this fragment:-


%%BeginDocument: Pscript_Win_PassThrough
% Removing the following eight lines is illegal, subject to the Digital
Copyright Act of 1998.
mark currentfile eexec
54dc5232e897cbaaa7584b7da7c23a6c59e7451851159cdbf40334cc2600
30036a856fabb196b3ddab71514d79106c969797b119ae4379c5ac9b7318
33471fc81a8e4b87bac59f7003cddaebea2a741c4e80818b4b136660994b
18a85d6b60e3c6b57cc0815fe834bc82704ac2caf0b6e228ce1b2218c8c7
67e87aef6db14cd38dda844c855b4e9c46d510cab8fdaa521d67cbb83ee1
af966cc79653b9aca2a5f91f908bbd3f06ecc0c940097ec77e210e6184dc
2f5777aacfc6907d43f1edb490a2a89c9af5b90ff126c0c3c5da9ae99f59
d47040be1c0336205bf3c6169b1b01cd78f922ec384cd0fcab955c0c20de
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
cleartomark

(eexec is the Postscript command to execute an encrypted file)

That (Microchip) PDF datsheet has modification prohibited.

It's rather weak technically, but the DMCA is perhaps not so weak.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the
reward"
EraseMEspeffspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


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