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'[OT] Oscilloscopes...'
2006\04\01@105520 by PIC

picon face
Hi,



Could you advice me on buying an oscilloscope? Which company is the best
on the market? Which one is worth buying and is not very expensive?

Did anybody of you design oscilloscope by yourself?

I've been thinking about designing one for PC based on PCI or ISA
interface card.

Do you know any resources on internet about something like that or a
company producing such cards?



I've recently come to conclusion that without an oscilloscope you can't
do much. :-(



I would really appreciate your help.



Thank you very much.



Sam

2006\04\01@112621 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Could you advice me on buying an oscilloscope? Which company is the best
> on the market? Which one is worth buying and is not very expensive?

Tektronix.  The TDS2000 series scopes are outSTANDing, and not TOO bad on
the price front (I promise, after a few months, you'll be glad you bought it and
not thinking too hard on the cost).

> Did anybody of you design oscilloscope by yourself?

Without the aid of a scope? ;-)

> I've recently come to conclusion that without an oscilloscope you can't
> do much. :-(

Not ENTIRELY true, but a scope may save your sanity.

Mike H.

2006\04\01@115649 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Tektronix.  The TDS2000 series scopes are outSTANDing, and
> not TOO bad on the price front

I have (from my school) one on my desk now and I realy like it. It ain't
exactly cheap. But think I will buy one. What would you recommend on the
number of channels and/or the PC interface?

> > I've recently come to conclusion that without an
> oscilloscope you can't
> > do much. :-(

Depends on what kind of work you do. I never used a scope when doing
pure programming work (Wisp628 etc), but I would never have got my
H-bridge working without a scope.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\04\01@115806 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:26:20 -0600, you wrote:

>> Could you advice me on buying an oscilloscope? Which company is the best
>> on the market? Which one is worth buying and is not very expensive?
>
>Tektronix.  The TDS2000 series scopes are outSTANDing, and not TOO bad on
>the price front (I promise, after a few months, you'll be glad you bought it and
>not thinking too hard on the cost).

If looking at new kit, also look at Agilent's recent offerings - whenever I've compared Agilent and
Tek scopes at similar price points, Agilent has been significantly better, especially responsiveness
of user interface & memory depth.

>> Did anybody of you design oscilloscope by yourself?
>
>Without the aid of a scope? ;-)
>
>> I've recently come to conclusion that without an oscilloscope you can't
>> do much. :-(
>
>Not ENTIRELY true, but a scope may save your sanity.

If you don't have a scope you are wasting a lot of your time. Even an ancient cheap used one is many
orders of magnitude better than none.

2006\04\01@124101 by Mike Hord

picon face
> > Tektronix.  The TDS2000 series scopes are outSTANDing, and
> > not TOO bad on the price front
>
> I have (from my school) one on my desk now and I realy like it. It ain't
> exactly cheap. But think I will buy one. What would you recommend on the
> number of channels and/or the PC interface?

For channels, I say the more the merrier- I've loved having a four channel.
Of course, money factors in, but four channels is enough to do low-end
logic analyzer work (not bus-wide stuff, but four channels will give you a
couple of ancillary data lines along with your RS232, or all the SPI lines
to a particular device, etc.).

I was disappointed with their PC connection module.  In my case, RS-232
was the only connection method I could use, as I didn't have GPIB capacity
or money to add it.  Also, they don't provide much in the way of software,
but they do give you some moderate to good tools to help develop it, or
you can fork over even more cash to buy some.  For my money, I'd skip
the PC interface- Wouter, you'd probably be comfortable to write your own
PC code for interfacing the thing.  I'm not much for PC code, myself.

Mike H.

2006\04\01@133010 by Juan Cubillo

flavicon
face
How about those USB oscilloscopes? I'm thinking about buying one from http://www.usbee.com

Anyone has seen these before? Pros/cons?

Juan Cubillo

{Original Message removed}

2006\04\01@153431 by Robert Rolf

picon face
I must concur. We bought an Agilent 6000 series after thoroughly comparing
Tek and Lecroy. Agilent had twice the display resolution, 10,000 times the
update rate (giving a much better capture of transients),
and 100 times the memory depth for nearly the same price.

I would have gone for Tek without even looking were it not for the
advice given here to look at Agilent.

I do recall seeing that Tek has a new line of DPO scopes,
but I don't think they YET have anything like the Agilent MSO scopes
(mixed signal. 4 Analog channels and 16 digital ones in ONE box.
What a time & space saver THAT is).

The one down side I found with Agilent is that it doesn't appear to be
able to directly talk to our network printer, whereas the Tek34xx that
I played with could. It was most convenient being able to just 'print screen'
to the laser printer without an intermediate machine being needed.

Robert

Mike Harrison wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\04\01@195830 by David VanHorn

picon face
I use a tek TDS420, 4 channel 100 mhz DSO and an ANT-8 8 channel logic
analyzer.  Both have their strengths.

It's always bound by your resources though.  Buy as much scope as you can
afford, because not being able to see a problem leaves you very much in the
dark.

I have a LOT of test equipment, some is dedicated to a specific task, others
are more generic.  I wouldn't trust a USB or PC based scope solution, only
because I haven't seen one that can hold a candle to a real scope.

2006\04\02@002450 by kravnus wolf

picon face
I am eyeing on TDS1000 series due to the fact I can
only afford that range only. The TDS series has a
module to plug into the PC for extended memory buffer.
Amplifier work it a MUST to have an
oscilloscope........... PIC work can mostly get
without it.

John

--- Wouter van Ooijen <spam_OUTwouterTakeThisOuTspamvoti.nl> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\02@002846 by kravnus wolf

picon face
there was a  comparison between aligent and tek low
end models(tek site unfortunately). aligent seems to
pale in comparison to tek. Autorange in aligent needs
a lot of tweeking and the unit is HUGE compared to
tek.

john

--- Mike Harrison <.....mikeKILLspamspam@spam@whitewing.co.uk> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\02@003659 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 4/1/06, Mike Hord <mike.hordspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> > Could you advice me on buying an oscilloscope? Which company is the best
> > on the market? Which one is worth buying and is not very expensive?
>
> Tektronix.  The TDS2000 series scopes are outSTANDing, and not TOO bad on
> the price front (I promise, after a few months, you'll be glad you bought it and
> not thinking too hard on the cost).

Mike, how is solved in TDS2000 the antialising problem when try to see
a high frequency signal and use manual mode for time base. How many
times you see false signals till the real signal if you increase
slowly the time base ?
I have a 350MHz Lecroy which shows me this joy feature...for more than $1500.

greetings,
Vasile

{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\04\02@043925 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <.....20060402052450.44227.qmailKILLspamspam.....web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>>          kravnus wolf <EraseMEkravnusspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTyahoo.com> wrote:

> I am eyeing on TDS1000 series due to the fact I can
> only afford that range only. The TDS series has a
> module to plug into the PC for extended memory buffer.
> Amplifier work it a MUST to have an
> oscilloscope........... PIC work can mostly get
> without it.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. If you can only buy one piece of test gear, get
a nice Fluke DMM (I've got a Fluke 25 I picked up at an auction). It'll pay
for itself by saving you the confusion of wondering how 5V can become 21V
(I've seen cheap DMMs that are stupidly out of cal, and most of them can't
even be recal'd to a reasonable spec).

If you want a good, sturdy oscilloscope and you don't have much to spend, get
yourself a Tektronix 400-series - the 454B is rumoured to be one of the best
scopes ever made. I've got a 466 storage scope here - very handy.
The 2400 series are nice too, but they tend to suffer from "dead hybrid
syndrome" - some of the amplifier hybrids are prone to failure, and they've
been unobtainium since the early 90s.

The 466 also uses a few hybrids, but they're pretty reliable. AFAIK the only
way to blow up the input hybrid without opening the scope is to wire the
input to about 500V, high current via a 1:1 probe. I don't know of anyone
that's ever been stupid enough to do that - nearly everyone I know uses 10:1
probes :)

Oh - another point - probes. Buy decent probes. Tektronix if you can get them
(but only buy them if they come with the accessory kit), else any other name
brand (HP, Agilent, LeCroy). For multimeter probes, get a set of Fluke TL80s
(the grey rubberised ones). They're about £30 but worth every penny.

I've also got a HP 1651B logic analyser - it's perfect for PIC debugging,
can't remember the specs but they're not hard to find. If you buy one, make
sure it comes with the probe pods. You can make a System floppy on any DOS
PC on the planet, but you can't replace the pods or the woven cables (which
were custom made for HP). Agilent still sell pods and cables as spares, but
they're very much "if you have to ask how much they cost, you can't afford
them". eBay is still a great source for spares, though.

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemspamspam_OUTdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\04\02@061115 by Tomas Larsson

flavicon
face
Get second hand of e-bay or similar (But be careful).

Me myself has a TEK 465B, 7603+7D20 (digital plugin), TEK 308 data analyzer
and a FLUKE 5 1/2 dig TRMS DMM, all bought on aucktions for a low price
(below $500:-)

With best regards

Tomas Larsson
Sweden
http://www.naks.mine.nu for downloads etc.
ftp://ktl.mine.nu for uploads. Or use the free http://www.yousendit.com service.

Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem


2006\04\02@063332 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 09:38:39 +0100, you wrote:

>In message <@spam@20060402052450.44227.qmailKILLspamspamweb34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> >          kravnus wolf <KILLspamkravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I am eyeing on TDS1000 series due to the fact I can
>> only afford that range only. The TDS series has a
>> module to plug into the PC for extended memory buffer.
>> Amplifier work it a MUST to have an
>> oscilloscope........... PIC work can mostly get
>> without it.

Depends  a lot on what you are doing, and how much you value your time... As soon as you get past
flashing a few LEDs, not using a scope is a poor way to spend your time...

>If you want a good, sturdy oscilloscope and you don't have much to spend, get
>yourself a Tektronix 400-series - the 454B is rumoured to be one of the best
>scopes ever made. I've got a 466 storage scope here - very handy.
>The 2400 series are nice too, but they tend to suffer from "dead hybrid
>syndrome" - some of the amplifier hybrids are prone to failure, and they've
>been unobtainium since the early 90s.

These hybrids don't actually fail very often, it's just that when they do it's terminal. Someone was
recently  talking seriously about building replacement modules, but I think it's a bit late in the
day now to be viable - a few years ago they'd have made a killing!

>I've also got a HP 1651B logic analyser - it's perfect for PIC debugging,
>can't remember the specs but they're not hard to find. If you buy one, make
>sure it comes with the probe pods. You can make a System floppy on any DOS
>PC on the planet, but you can't replace the pods or the woven cables (which
>were custom made for HP). Agilent still sell pods and cables as spares, but
>they're very much "if you have to ask how much they cost, you can't afford
>them". eBay is still a great source for spares, though.

The pods are replaceable if you can live with less-than-perfect performance though, e.g. for lower
frequency PIC work IDC ribbon cable and some resistors will work, just don't expect 100MHz
performance.

2006\04\02@105856 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Philip,

   What do you think of TDS 1000? Any good things
about it? It will be the biggest investment I would
have for my electronic hobby. Yes, a GOOD DMM is
important. I have used analog and digital. I own Fluke
175. I dare say I wouldn't be able to get any projects
done without it. Simply accurate and fast with it's
readings.

   I am very tempted in getting FLuke 187! What is
your feedback?

John



--- Philip Pemberton <RemoveMEphilpemTakeThisOuTspamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> In message
>
<spamBeGone20060402052450.44227.qmailspamBeGonespamweb34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> {Quote hidden}

> -

2006\04\02@110336 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Most of the work I have done doesn't require signal
sensitive work. So far I am safe but for certain
projects it is out of my reach since I would be
pulling out my fair rather than thinking how to solve
it.



--- Mike Harrison <mikeEraseMEspam.....whitewing.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 09:38:39 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >In message
>
<EraseME20060402052450.44227.qmailspamweb34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> {Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\02@160331 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <RemoveME20060402145856.34512.qmailspam_OUTspamKILLspamweb34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>>          kravnus wolf <RemoveMEkravnusTakeThisOuTspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:

>     What do you think of TDS 1000? Any good things
> about it? It will be the biggest investment I would
> have for my electronic hobby.

I haven't even seen one, let alone used one... I'm looking for a DSO myself,
but I don't have a great amount of money to spend. To be honest, I'm toying
with the idea of building a homebrew DSO and an arbitrary waveform generator
to go with it. Aiming for about 250MHz analogue bandwidth with a 60MHz sample
rate (unless I can get some faster RAMs and some decent FPGAs).

>     I am very tempted in getting FLuke 187! What is
> your feedback?

Again, I've never used one, but if it's anything like my 25 then it'll be a
good investment.

I've got PDFs of the service manual, service manual supplement and operator's
manual for the Fluke 25 and 27 DMMs here - Fluke wanted over £100 just for
the service manual, but a T&M dealer put it up on their website for free
download :)

I've also got the Operator's Manual for the Schlumberger-Solartron 7150plus
bench DMM, and the Service Manual for the 7150. I suspect the 7150 and
7150plus use the same circuitry though... it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

The 7150plus is a fantastic little bench meter. True RMS, four-wire
measurement, GPIB, 4 to 6 digit display (read: it's got an averaging filter)
and a really big, easy to read LCD. Just watch out for the power filter
modules - most will be about 20 years old, and it's at that age when they
tend to suffer from sudden, catastrophic failure. RS have the filter modules,
and I'd be tempted to replace it on any 7150 I get that hasn't had it
replaced already. Problem is, they're about £30 a pop and second-hand 7150s
tend to sell for around £60 to £65.

Next on my "to build" list: a bunch of digital test instruments with PC link
support. I have yet to find a DMM that can read down to the microamps range
properly, so I plan to DIY one. Am I mad? Probably.

The plan is to have a 9-bit opto-isolated multidrop bus for the PC link with
a USB adapter pod and Bulk Transfer mode. I intend to use host-initiated
transfers so I don't have to play with interrupt-mode or isochronous transfer
modes. Full specs when I can be bothered to sit down and write them up.

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
EraseMEphilpemspamspamspamBeGonedsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\04\02@184603 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
I love those old Tektronix military scopes, like the militarized TEK475,
probably
'cause I am old and militarized, too.

I own a TEK475, have had it for 8 years, no problems at all except the
fan got
noisy and I had to replace it with a non-exact replacement. I paid only
$300 at
that time, including the lockable wheelbase and adjustable mounting straps.
It has 2 standard channels and a third trigger channel. I haven't
checked lately,
but there should still be many available from EBAY, etc for $300 or so.

In 8 years, I've never had a scrape my scope didn't pull me out of. I
visit clients
all the time, and I have a better feel with my 35-yo Tek475 than those funny
digital ones my clients always seem to squander money on. I LIKE the analog
feel of those old scopes.

I guess my age shows..

--Bob


Philip Pemberton wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
spamBeGoneattachSTOPspamspamEraseMEengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\04\02@193502 by olin piclist

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> In 8 years, I've never had a scrape my scope didn't pull me out of. I
> visit clients
> all the time, and I have a better feel with my 35-yo Tek475 than those
> funny digital ones my clients always seem to squander money on. I LIKE
> the analog feel of those old scopes.

I bought a used Tek465 (I think, not in the office right now) about 10 years
ago for about $250.  It's an OK scope, but the trigger is flaky the fan is
making noise, and the vertical gain is a little off on one channel ever
since the last time it was "calibrated" (never going back to that place).

Analog scopes are fine for what they are, but single event capture is very
useful for microcontroller circuits.  I'd rather have a slightly less
capable digital scope with its single event capture than its analog
counterpart.  If I had to pick one, I'd pick the otherwise unimpressive
TDS210 over the analog scope I have now for that reason.  I'm seriously
considering a Tek TDS2000, and similar models from Agilent and others.

Tektronics is doing some kind of event here in a week or two, and I might
pop in to put hands on a TDS2000.  Now if Agilent only ran a similar
event...


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\02@202050 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Apr 2, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> If I had to pick one, I'd pick the otherwise unimpressive
> TDS210 over the analog scope I have now for that reason.

I *LIKE* my TDS-210, and indeed the single-event capture has
come in handy.  You can connect up an IR receiver and see the
whole command from a remote control for instance...

And space has value too.  I originally bought the 210 (paying
quite a bit more than the oft-recommended used mainframe scope)
because I simply don't have room for an old-style analog scope.

I don't use it very often; perhaps I would find more things
not to like about it if I did.  But so far, it's proven adequate
for everything I've tried to use it for.

There's a scale of diminishing returns on scopes, I think.
ANY scope, down to the 20kHz converted sound card, is a lot
better than nothing.  The 20MHz hobby-class scopes, or a used
scope that isn't TOO out-of-calibration, is better, of course
(at a price.)  Beyond that you start paying a lot of money to
have 100MHz instead of 60MHz, and other bells and whistles
that are used relatively seldomly (but might be important
when you DO need them.)

BillW

2006\04\02@214803 by Ling SM

picon face
I have an old bench analog scope and when it was time to spoil myself
for another tool I went for  a battery powered portable scope, the ease
of use and the ease without an AC supply increases its usage more than
other features for the scope.

Now using the scope is as easy as using a multimeter (form factor, ease
of use, etc), it get use like a multimeter.  I bring the scope to the
test unit, not the other way round.

As for a more advanced bench scope, I am waiting for a situation that
really demand it so I can skip as many generations of intermediate
models as possible - just don't have the life, space, time and money for
all these in-between.

Ling SM

2006\04\02@220744 by kravnus wolf

picon face
I hear all the good things of the old models.......
Vintage counts a lot :D If I do find a good
ocilloscope from where I am I don't mind taking a
chance on it.  Anyone know where I can find a
reputable dealer selling old and workable oscilloscope
in Malaysia?

Sigh.... the hardship in finding good equipment.
John

--- Bob Axtell <KILLspamengineerspamBeGonespamcotse.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

<EraseME20060402145856.34512.qmailspamEraseMEweb34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> {Quote hidden}

> -

2006\04\02@221215 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Olin,


Have you seen

http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html?wt=550&title=Tektronix%3A%20Products%20%3E%20Oscilloscopes%20%3E%20TDS1000%20/%20TDS2000%20Series&label=http%3A//http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html&link=http%3A//http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html

DSO - Digital Storage Oscilloscopes

Aligent VS tek.

Does it convince you to buy tek? Not sure it is all
marketing talk there.......

John

--- Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistspam_OUTspamembedinc.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

******************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.
> #1 PIC
> consultant in 2004 program year.
> http://www.embedinc.com/products
> --

2006\04\02@221542 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Ling SM,

  How are the prices of the tek scope in Singapore
cheaper than Malaysia? The tax in Malaysia REALLY
drives things up. Found that Singapore is MUCH cheaper
than Malaysia for test equipment.

John

--- Ling SM <TakeThisOuTipal11.....spamTakeThisOuTsingnet.com.sg> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@015758 by Ling SM

picon face

>    How are the prices of the tek scope in Singapore
> cheaper than Malaysia? The tax in Malaysia REALLY
> drives things up. Found that Singapore is MUCH cheaper
> than Malaysia for test equipment.

Try this guy at ebay,
<http://stores.ebay.com/Buy9-99-Industrial-Surplus_Test-Equipment_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm>

He is from Singapore, somewhere at Bukit Panjang.  You can pick it from
him when you come down so no shipping.  I wish I can have all his high
end on ebay.  He has an OK price, not the best deal but can be if you
consider the shipping fee.

I don't know the tek scope market in Malaysia so I can't compare.  But
the tek distributor in Singapore is a subisidary of Sime Darby, a
Malaysia company.  Sim Lim Tower second hand equipment is not so good
deal, at least to me comparing to ebay.  You should look out for factory
close-down auction in the Malaysia papers.  We had quite a few here last
few years when I was following.

Lng SM

2006\04\03@030526 by Luis.Moreira

picon face
Hi David,
I agree with you, but if you know the limitations of the PC based scope
and your resources (money wise) are limited then they are a very capable
solution. We use a few and they are great, I constantly have the need to
scope signals at HV and I use a PC based scope with an USB to fibre to
USB cable to control the scope and get the data out which provides
complete isolation. This improved the way we can fault find immensely.
Best regards
               Luis



{Original Message removed}

2006\04\03@031818 by Luis.Moreira

picon face
Hi Sam,
We have two Bitscopes

http://www.bitscope.com/

very capable and inexpensive. Depends on what you need and/or can
afford.

Best regards
               Luis



{Original Message removed}

2006\04\03@040616 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>>     What do you think of TDS 1000? Any good things
>> about it? It will be the biggest investment I would
>> have for my electronic hobby.
>
>I haven't even seen one, let alone used one...

The TDS1000 series is a monochrome screen version of the TDS2000 series. I
think they also have a lower frequency spec on the bottom end model, and
cannot remember if they do a 4 channel version.

>>     I am very tempted in getting FLuke 187!
>> What is your feedback?

Go for it. These are great meters. I have two of the 89 IV and one 187,
which is effectively the later version. Nice accurate, have max/min readings
as well. Great instruments.

2006\04\03@041203 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'm seriously considering a Tek TDS2000,
>and similar models from Agilent and others.

If you have the money available, look at the TDS3000 as an alternative. I
have both a TDS2024 and a TDS3034, and very much prefer the 3000 for its
larger screen with full VGA resolution over the 2000 with its lower
resolution. There are other things I like on the 2000 over the 3000, like
each channel having its own set of knobs, which seemed an aberration on the
TDS3000 series.

Alternatively the TDS4000 series look like they may be setting out to
replace the 3000, with an even bigger screen, but at what at first glance
seems to be a similar price, but I haven't aggressively gone pricing them.

2006\04\03@041635 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I have an old bench analog scope and when it was time
>to spoil myself for another tool I went for  a battery
>powered portable scope, the ease of use and the ease
>without an AC supply increases its usage more than
>other features for the scope.

One thing I like about the TDS3000 is the battery compartment. The battery
is extra if you need a battery powered unit, but without the battery, there
is a tray fits in the compartment to carry the probes. It would also fit a
US style power cord, but not a UK style one with the massive clunky mains
plug used here.

2006\04\03@050523 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Thanks for the tip there Ling. I am definitely going
to keep this mail :) If there is any bargains in
Singapore post it on PICLIST. I am quite sure there
are some of us monitoring it for bargains :)

Thanks again,
John

--- Ling SM <TakeThisOuTipal11KILLspamspamspamsingnet.com.sg> wrote:

>
> >    How are the prices of the tek scope in
> Singapore
> > cheaper than Malaysia? The tax in Malaysia REALLY
> > drives things up. Found that Singapore is MUCH
> cheaper
> > than Malaysia for test equipment.
>
> Try this guy at ebay,
>
<stores.ebay.com/Buy9-99-Industrial-Surplus_Test-Equipment_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm>
{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@050838 by kravnus wolf

picon face


--- "Alan B. Pearce" <.....A.B.PearcespamRemoveMErl.ac.uk> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 2 channel...... The freq is about the same depending
on model. Basically 1000 is without color.


> >>     I am very tempted in getting FLuke 187!
> >> What is your feedback?
>
> Go for it. These are great meters. I have two of the
> 89 IV and one 187,
> which is effectively the later version. Nice
> accurate, have max/min readings
> as well. Great instruments.
>
 The temptation is great......

John

> --

2006\04\03@054150 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:12:09 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Olin,
>
>
>Have you seen
>
>http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html?wt=550&title=Tektronix%3A%20Products%20%3E%20Oscilloscopes%20%3E%20TDS1000%20/%20TDS2000%20Series&label=http%3A//http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html&link=http%3A//http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/industry_comp.html
>
>DSO - Digital Storage Oscilloscopes
>
>Aligent VS tek.
>
>Does it convince you to buy tek?

If it does you're being lazy - do you believe every bit of advertising you read?
Tek and Agilent have been competing somewhat enthusiastically recently - comparisons like these
always focus on those features that favour the company doing the comparison, but  
You really need to think about what's important to you - there;s no point in paying for a load of
'better' features you'll never use.  
For day-to-day usage, general 'look and feel' is very important, and this can only be judged by
actually using them.. I've used a number of different recent (<5yrs) Teks belonging to various
customers of mine and have yet to be impressed, especially with the sluggish responsiveness of the
user interface, whearas The Agilent models I;ve used  are extremely quick and well-designed in this
respect.
And ask Tek about their scopes with 16 digital channels.. Oh, sorry, they don't have any!

If you are serious about investing in kit, you should get units on loan to try for yourself -
Agilent will provide units on 2-week loan for evaluation - I would imagine Tek to the same.





2006\04\03@055532 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Mon, Apr 03, 2006 at 08:18:16AM +0100, Luis Moreira wrote:
> Hi Sam,
> We have two Bitscopes
>
> http://www.bitscope.com/
>
> very capable and inexpensive. Depends on what you need and/or can
> afford.

I'll second that. I've got the tiny USB-bus powered model, the Bitscope
Pocket Analyzer. Works very well, and it's smaller than my laptop. I
carry it around to and from school all the time. It's not perfect, the
software version I have has the odd anoying bug, and it tends to crash,
but it's size and price makes up for it. Also like that the software has
a Linux version, which I use exclusively.

If only my Tek 475 weighed so little.

--
RemoveMEpetespamspamBeGonepetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\04\03@082223 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
William ChopsWestfield wrote:

> On Apr 2, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
>> If I had to pick one, I'd pick the otherwise unimpressive
>> TDS210 over the analog scope I have now for that reason.
>
> I *LIKE* my TDS-210, and indeed the single-event capture has
> come in handy.  You can connect up an IR receiver and see the
> whole command from a remote control for instance...

I third that :)  The TDS210 are/were pretty good scopes for the money. The
only thing I really miss in it are isolated inputs (like the portable
scopes usually have). For who has that money to spend, that's IMO a very
useful feature.

> I don't use it very often; perhaps I would find more things
> not to like about it if I did.  But so far, it's proven adequate
> for everything I've tried to use it for.

I use it quite a bit, in phases. But there isn't much -- anything, in fact
-- I could say I don't like about it.

Gerhard

2006\04\03@092155 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face

> The TDS1000 series is a monochrome screen version of the
> TDS2000 series. I
> think they also have a lower frequency spec on the bottom end
> model, and
> cannot remember if they do a 4 channel version.

Well, the topic has been well covered, but I can offer a bit more
from a less-experienced point of view.
I own a TDS2002 scope, that's 60Mhz, 2 traces, and a color screen.
Before this I only had "trash" scopes pulled from other peoples
garbage cans.
The TDS2002 is a big improvement (I should hope so!) from the old
junk I used to use. Yes, triggereing is "different" now. It seems
to take a fair bit of my time to get the display I want to see.
I never had this trouble with analog scopes.. But I'm quite happy
with the difference.
Advantages: I really like having different colors for the two traces.
The size and weight of the unit make a HUGE difference in usability.
I just use a padded laptop shoulder-bag as a carrying case, it works
out just fine. I'm not afraid to keep this thing in the trunk of my
car, which makes it a lot more likely to have it on-hand when I need
it. The supplied probes seem a bit lightweight, but they are working
fine. I also spent a bit extra for the communications module that has
a Compact Flash slot. Very handy for screen grabs.
Another big plus over analog: A wide variety of measurements can be
called up from the scope. easily measure pulse width, frequency,
voltage etc from the front panel.

It will take a bit more practice to get the most from this scope, but
I have no regrets at all. I can't compare it to other models available,
but I'm happy with the choice I made.

Lyle

2006\04\03@095418 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Well, the topic has been well covered, but I can offer a bit more
> from a less-experienced point of view.

I think I can apply for the less-experienced position too :)

What I *love* is the "auto set". No fiddeling with trigger, vertical and
horizontal settings, just press "auto set" and you will get some
picture. In most cases it is what I want, if not I can start fiddeling
with the controls with a good starting point.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\04\03@104329 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Lyle,

   Don't leave the scope in the car. The LCD screen
will get damaged under the hot sun. Thanks for the
valuable feedback on the TDS 2000 series. From my
understanding the  TDS1000 is around the same. Is your
scope made in China?

Thanks,
John

--- Hazelwood Lyle <spamBeGoneLHazelwood@spam@spamspam_OUTmfgnc.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@104429 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Auto car and scopes :D I am getting spoilt with the
world.......

John

--- Wouter van Ooijen <TakeThisOuTwouterspamspamvoti.nl> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@112827 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: kravnus wolf [kravnusEraseMEspamyahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 10:43 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: RE: [OT] Oscilloscopes...
>
>
> Lyle,
>
>     Don't leave the scope in the car. The LCD screen
> will get damaged under the hot sun. Thanks for the
> valuable feedback on the TDS 2000 series. From my
> understanding the  TDS1000 is around the same. Is your
> scope made in China?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

Thank You.
It's the things that I DON'T think of that cause me trouble.
I'll get the scope out of the car tonight. Fortunately, I know
it's OK, as I was just using it Friday afternoon.

As far as I know, the TDS1000 are just the same, except for
B&W instead of color, and an option for lower speeds (40 is the
bottom instead of 60, I think)

I don't know the country of origin, I usually don't pay attention
to such things.

Now if I can find someone to make a fitted leather carrying case,
I'll be all set. ("Pimp my Scope" ??)
For now, the lightweight laptop bag is working well enough, and it
has plenty of pockets for cords, probes, books, and other accessories.

I'll be "playing" with it more tonight, and I'll look closer at how the
triggering works (including auto-set). I don't learn as fast as I did
when I was younger, but I can still learn.


Lyle

2006\04\03@113106 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Thanks for the valuable feedback on the TDS 2000
>series. From my understanding the  TDS1000 is
>around the same. Is your scope made in China?

My TDS2024 certainly was, and I got it when they first came out.

2006\04\04@154100 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 4/3/06, Ling SM <RemoveMEipal11EraseMEspamspam_OUTsingnet.com.sg> wrote:
>
> I have an old bench analog scope and when it was time to spoil myself
> for another tool I went for  a battery powered portable scope, the ease
> of use and the ease without an AC supply increases its usage more than
> other features for the scope.
>
> Now using the scope is as easy as using a multimeter (form factor, ease
> of use, etc), it get use like a multimeter.  I bring the scope to the
> test unit, not the other way round.



Ah, (those?) portable scopes are the best...  I now (finally!) own a  Fluke
120 series scope meter, and I think it's great. It takes up practically NO
space at all in my tiny bedroom when safely locked away in it's case! Very
functional, great for home and even better for troubleshooting problems in
the field (that is, if I actually ever have anything to troubleshoot in the
field).

Sean.

2006\04\04@194841 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 4, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Sean Schouten wrote:

> Ah, (those?) portable scopes are the best...  I now (finally!)
> own a  Fluke 120 series scope meter, and I think it's great.
> It takes up practically NO space at all...

Do any of the scopemeter-like products allow connection to a PC
for "display zoom" sort of functionality?  Portable real-time
tiny little screens have their place, I suppose, but in a lab
situation, I'd rather have a big display I can see from a couple
of meters away while I'm poking at things.  The larger display
on the PC need not be updated in real time, I think...

BillW

2006\04\04@200419 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 4/5/06, William Chops Westfield <@spam@westfwRemoveMEspamEraseMEmac.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Sean Schouten wrote:
>
> > Ah, (those?) portable scopes are the best...  I now (finally!)
> > own a  Fluke 120 series scope meter, and I think it's great.
> > It takes up practically NO space at all...
>
> Do any of the scopemeter-like products allow connection to a PC
> for "display zoom" sort of functionality?  Portable real-time
> tiny little screens have their place, I suppose, but in a lab
> situation, I'd rather have a big display I can see from a couple
> of meters away while I'm poking at things.  The larger display
> on the PC need not be updated in real time, I think...



I have the Optical Isolated RS-232 cable that came with the thing, but it's
previous owner lost the FlukeView software, and there are no *trial*
versions availible last time I looked. There for I can only point you to
here:

Fluke 120 Series Scopemeter (my baby):
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/features.htm?cs_id=8221(FlukeProducts)&category=SCM(FlukeProducts)



Sorry to be of little help!

Sean.

2006\04\11@120106 by Aaron
picon face


Sean Schouten wrote:

>I have the Optical Isolated RS-232 cable that came with the thing, but it's
>previous owner lost the FlukeView software, and there are no *trial*
>versions availible last time I looked.
>


Is there any value in the Demo version?
http://us.fluke.com/usen/support/software/FlukeViewforScopeMeter.htm

Aaron

2006\04\16@143950 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 4/11/06, Aaron <EraseMEaaron.piclistspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sean Schouten wrote:
>
> >I have the Optical Isolated RS-232 cable that came with the thing, but
> it's
> >previous owner lost the FlukeView software, and there are no *trial*
> >versions availible last time I looked.
> >
>
>
> Is there any value in the Demo version?
> http://us.fluke.com/usen/support/software/FlukeViewforScopeMeter.htm
>

Might do... thanks! I will have a look at it.

Sean

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