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'[OT] Only 2 weeks to Christmas !!!!'
2005\12\23@063255 by Russell McMahon

Only ~2 weeks to Christmas !!! :-)
And only 2 days to Christmas as well !!!
(Depending on exactly where and when you are on earth when you read

If it's about 2 days to Christmas and you have trouble keeping up with
the Christmas rush you could consider moving to Egypt at this time of
year and getting an invaluable 13 extra days before Christmas arrives.
[Some might suggest it's a Copt out :-( *].

My daughter gets to celebrate both events. She'll be in Perth
Australia on December 25th and in Cairo, Egypt on January 7th.

Wherever you are this Christmas, may it be a blessed and peaceful one
for you and your loved ones. And remember those for who this is not
going to be the case.

       Russell McMahon


* Please excuse bad pun :-)
For revelation -

FYI Christmas lasts for 49 hours from beginning to end. As does every
day on earth for much of the year. Some may last for only 48 hours
depending on the relative timing of various daylight saving
arrangements. (I won't even start to mention Tonga - and I don't know
if they have daylight saving).

2005\12\23@222605 by Jose Da Silva

On December 23, 2005 03:32 am, Russell McMahon wrote:
> Only ~2 weeks to Christmas !!! :-)
> And only 2 days to Christmas as well !!!
> (Depending on exactly where and when you are on earth when you read
> this).

...if anyone is wondering why?

2005\12\24@012029 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Bah. And not only Bah but humbug as well.

And if it gets any worse, I'll take it out on you by claiming this was a
religious post. <grin>

We have tried, this year, to not "buy in" by making some percentage of our
presents our self (and then pretending we like the sad little crap we have
made for each other) and by not putting up lights and only decorating a
little tree.

Don't worry, the kids are still getting plenty of plastic junk, and we will
eat ourselves into oblivion in the face of starving children everywhere, but
it is a small step in the right direction.

Actually, I know my 11 year old daughter made some pretty nice handbags for
her mom and some friends with the sewing machine we got her last year. The 8
year old son is doing some drawings as presents for people. He does pretty

Some of the plastic junk is educational so they might learn something before
it breaks.

Any other ideas for how to keep the holiday out of the hands of business?
Anyone else into permaculture, sustainability, and DIY independence?


> {Original Message removed}

2005\12\24@021020 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Dec 23, 2005, at 10:20 PM, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> We have tried, this year, to not "buy in"

In the absence of a religion, I don't really see what's so wrong
with a holiday celebrating the exchange of gifts.  Yeah, in the US
that tends toward excessive consumerism, but why should a holiday
be any different than the rest of the year?  (In the presence of
religion, replacing appropriate religious awe with gift giving is
less than appropriate.  I guess...)


2005\12\24@023406 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
It is the consumerism that most disturbs me. And that is mostly for personal
reasons which are fairly complex. Those with more time than sense can read
both of the following and possibly understand (or not) sets it up brings it home

In general, I just think we would all be a bit better off if we didn't
depend on others, and especially not on corporations, for our needs. Not
that I have a problem with corporations, I just don't want to depend on them
for my life. The consumerism of this holiday is an example of depending on
corporations for our children's happiness. My kids shouldn't be dreaming of
that new skateboard from XYZ Corp. (shipped in from china, made from
plastics) They should be dreaming about a hug and a smile from me and mom
and a wooden toy I carved in the shop. (made from a tree that grew out back,
will be recycled into the soil when they are done with it)

Yeah, I know, I'm just another whacko radical.


> {Original Message removed}

2005\12\24@085902 by David VanHorn

picon face
Gifts of tools, knowlege and learning?

Legos, Erector/Meccano, X-in-1 electronic sets, Boe-Bots..
FRS/GMRS walkie talkies sparking a later interest in ham radio?

2005\12\24@094229 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
William ChopsWestfield wrote:

>> We have tried, this year, to not "buy in"
> In the absence of a religion, I don't really see what's so wrong
> with a holiday celebrating the exchange of gifts.  

Depends on what you want... I don't think James wrote about the exchange of
gifts (other than that it's a good thing), but about the kind of gifts.

Since a rather early age (not quite childhood, but before adulthood), this
didn't make sense to me. There are the things I need or really want. They
are usually too specific for anybody being able to give me that -- I have
to get them myself, and I usually also can't or don't want to wait until
Christmas. There are also the nice little things I don't need and neither
knew I wanted, but their value is not the money someone paid for it, their
value is of a personal nature, related more to the act of giving. And this
act for me includes everything related. I know there are people who are so
far away from making things of their own, they don't know the feeling, they
kind of feel that what they do is not "professional" and so less "worthy".
But for me, it isn't.

In the end, think about it: Does it make sense to pay somebody to make a
"personal" gift for your friend? Or is a mass-produced item a "personal"
gift? IMO only by some stretch of the meaning of "personal". Of course,
commerce and advertising has made sure that "personal" got stretched that
far -- that's what they work for. But then, they can't really prevent
people from making up their own mind if they want to. This new meaning of a
"personal gift" ("I personally bought it" :) is rather recent -- seems to
be a consequence of mass production creating mass commerce using mass
communication media with mass advertising to form mass opinion :)


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