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'[OT] Obsession with Hebrew'
2011\06\26@134038 by YES NOPE9

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Another reason for putting Russell on moderation......

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>                   Russel

2011\06\26@143634 by Josh Koffman

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On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:40 PM, YES NOPE9 <spam_OUTyesTakeThisOuTspamnope9.com> wrote:
> Another reason for putting Russell on moderation......

He's speaking in tongues?

:)

Josh
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2011\06\26@171944 by Michael Watterson

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On 26/06/2011 19:36, Josh Koffman wrote:
> He's speaking in tongues?
That would have been all the languages except Hebrew and Aramaic.

2011\06\26@224737 by RussellMc

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> Another reason for putting Russell on moderation......


אני שומר אחי?

                    llessuR

2011\06\26@232122 by Bob Blick

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On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:46 +1200, "RussellMc" wrote:

> אני שומר אחי?


No surprise, there just isn't any way to translate that to Klingon.

--
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                         or over the web

2011\06\26@233940 by RussellMc

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>
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:46 +1200, "RussellMc" wrote:
>  > אני שומר אחי?
>
> No surprise, there just isn't any way to translate that to Klingon.
>
> Mayhaps

        jup wIj loDnI' jIH?

sufficeth.


            Russell

2011\06\26@235213 by Bob Blick

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On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:38 +1200, "RussellMc"  wrote:
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"I am my littermate's jailer"? OK, I guess :)

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2011\06\27@002118 by cdb

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:::: > Mayhaps
::::
::::          jup wIj loDnI' jIH?
::::
:::: sufficeth.
::::
:: "I am my littermate's jailer"? OK, I guess :)

Hang on, I thought Hebrew was one of those languages where vowels aren't written so context is needed to make a sentence such as - h st dwn by hs dry    - which could be read as - He sat down by his dairy or he sat down by his diary. Or is that only ' official ' scribings where that happens?

Colin
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2011\06\27@003459 by Sean Breheny

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I think that this last missive was in Klingon :)

A quick review of the wiki articles about Hebrew and the Hebrew
Alphabet seems to indicate that it was traditionally written with no
vowels, at some point various marks were introduced to indicate
vowels, and there now exists a major variant which has full symbols
for vowels. However, the structure of the language is such that, in
most cases, the consonants are enough to at least determine the root
word, so it seems that the ambiguity you are talking about is much
less likely in Hebrew.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:21 AM, cdb <colinspamKILLspambtech-online.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\06\27@014808 by RussellMc

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> I think that this last missive was in Klingon :)

Was Klingon it, yes.

Not that I know anything at all about such things.
But I can make a mess with the provided tools.

> A quick review of the wiki articles about Hebrew and the Hebrew
> Alphabet seems to indicate that it was traditionally written with no
> vowels, at some point various marks were introduced to indicate
> vowels,

eg Jot & Tittle & co which Christ said would by no means pass from the law.

Solomon's giant "bath" - large bronze tank outside temple used for
ceremonial washing of 'stuff' appears to lave a stated C/D ratio of
3:1.
People have complained about this value for Pi. Examination of the
surrounding text by those suitably skilled in the art (ie ANY/all
ancient Hebrew scholar) shows to a person suitably skilled in the art
(certainly not me) that a jot/tittle/summat has been omitted in
transcription from one word. Restoring such apparently produces a
value for Pi to about (as I try to recall) 10 or 12 places. I think
this may be lightly buried in the text rather that being the actual
statement of ratio. eg the letters etc of te words spell out
314159265... . This using standard Hebrew gematria / gimatria /
(gammatria) which I mentioned before. The basic number/letter
correspondence is a fundamental aspect of the Hebrew language and
number systems. Many of the interpretations thereof are "more
speculative".



 Russel

2011\06\27@043747 by Michael Watterson

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On 27/06/2011 03:46, RussellMc wrote:
> אני שומר אחי?
>
We all should be.

2011\06\27@044602 by Michael Watterson

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On 27/06/2011 05:34, Sean Breheny wrote:
> at some point various marks were introduced to indicate
> vowels, and there now exists a major variant which has full symbols
> for vowels. However, the structure of the language is such that, in
> most cases, the consonants are enough to at least determine the root
> word, so it seems that the ambiguity you are talking about is much
> less likely in Hebrew.
>

Only kiddies books and the Bible have "points". Regular text doesn't and it's not a problem.

Evn Englsh y cn lv ot all th vwls excpt th ldng ons and it wrks qut wll

Like Y in English there are some vowel like letters in the aleph-beth

Plurals are fun for adults learning. But usually the host / cafe  etc knows you want Eggs on the meal and not Swamps.

Pronounce Aaron wrong and it's the Hebrew for a  Wardrobe. More fun learning a language in a country than in School or at home.

2011\06\27@095821 by John Ferrell

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On 6/27/2011 4:37 AM, Michael Watterson wrote:
> On 27/06/2011 03:46, RussellMc wrote:
>> אני שומר אחי?
>>
> We all should be.
>
I love it! We have brushed against the forbidden topic of religion for
over 12 hours without some whiner taking offense!
I find it very interesting. Perhaps adding a suffix of Taboo to the OT
tag would allow us to continue indefinitely?  Something like
[OT]:Taboo?

Or is it the case that he who complains wants to limit what I can do?

Please do continue!

--

*John Ferrell W8CCW*

**

*‘A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should
survey the world. ‘*

*George Santayana*

**

2011\06\27@101433 by Michael Watterson

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On 27/06/2011 14:57, John Ferrell wrote:
> I love it! We have brushed against the forbidden topic of religion for
> over 12 hours without some whiner taking offense!

We have?

I thought we just discussing individuality and Language. I know some un-religious people that speak & write Hebrew :-

2011\06\27@103126 by John Ferrell

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On 6/27/2011 10:14 AM, Michael Watterson wrote:
> On 27/06/2011 14:57, John Ferrell wrote:
>> I love it! We have brushed against the forbidden topic of religion for
>> over 12 hours without some whiner taking offense!
> We have?
>
> I thought we just discussing individuality and Language. I know some
> un-religious people that speak&  write Hebrew :-)
I agree.

--
*John Ferrell W8CCW*

**

*'A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should survey the world. '*

*George Santayana*

**

2011\06\27@112032 by RussellMc

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>> On 27/06/2011 03:46, RussellMc wrote:
>>> אני שומר אחי?
>>>
>> We all should be.

> I love it! We have brushed against the forbidden topic of religion for
> over 12 hours without some whiner taking offense!

1. You need to be properly conversant with the list rules.
Such items are permitted as long as no longer than one line (by Olin's
definition) and written in Hebrew, Klingon, Greek or any other dead
language for which a font set is not available and/or which is not
translated by Gargoyle or BabelFish. (For symbol based languages,
individual hieroglyphs must be counted as having the equivalent word
count as their translation into some qualifying language.) Languages
which involve recursion or whose words represent hashes into larger
table structures are disqualified regardless of otherwise being
meretricious. .

2. You probably do one of my littermates [tm][virtual] a disservice in
your adumbrations.

True religion has a distinctly different ring to it that what we have
been seeing here.
Be it

         Gods gods, g_ds, motor vehicles from certain regions - or
not, O/Ss from certain manufacturers - or not, or same with cute
animals as logos, or people or parties that about nearly half of your
countrymen voted either for or against, morally sound societally
justifiable just-how-g_d-intended-it economo-societal philosophical
belief systems from the too far right and too far left, or  ...

there is a certain circling of wagons, curling of the lip, flattening
of the ears, quickening of the pulse, curdling of the stomach, hints
of adrenalin pumping into the system, turbines and turbos spooling up
and coming on line and ... that characterises such things. Of all
these here we have none. So far.

My aforementioned littermate is indeed somewhat more hairtriggered
towards eschewing all such, but examination of the record would sadly
show that he is more prescient and experienced in such things than
some give merit. Sometimes, alas, important person agrees with him
even when I don't :-). Sometimes not.

Odds may be laid that now you have raised the spectre of fevered
partisan bias, we may see some such soon added to the mix. But, maybe
not. I'd wager that "Oriental" may not be a term that Klingons , or
even Ferrengi, have concepts, let alone words, for, whether in the
realms of construction of fine machines or other. The Greeks
undoubtedly did (but probably not wrt machinery).

My aforementioned littermate and anyone who does not try excessively
hard may have concluded before now that I am babbling. As well may be
the case. Even though it all scans (E&OE) and makes a degree off sense
(YMMV).

> I find it very interesting. Perhaps adding a suffix of Taboo to the OT
> tag would allow us to continue indefinitely?  Something like
> [OT]:Taboo?

No. Alas.
What is required is "my strength is as the strength of ten because..."
straight dealing and intentions, which, largely, in such things, we
have not got*.
People think 'taboo' or whatever means 'it's now OK not to be nie' as
has been long since demonstrated. And, when freedom is allowed the OT
channel becomes soon captive to the extreme right and extreme left of
whatever subject enters its door. If there is anything more
disquieting than observing zealots of opposing view showing everyone
how facile they are, its a eisteddfod of zealots all of a feather
slapping each other on the back and saying how right they are and what
turkeys the other guys are. Don't ask me how I know.

[* Naming of parts][Gargoyle knows]**.

** Much as I hate to make it easy to follow my semi-random  forays,
this seems a better than average commentary on N.O.P.
Because: it has various individuals happily disagreeing with each
other, some having little  idea of what they speak of [tm].
Turbines spooling up ...
          http://wonderingminstrels.blogspot.com/2000/04/naming-of-parts-henry-reed.html

> Or is it the case that he who complains wants to limit what I can do?

That approaches a self evident truth to possibly not be useful.
It would, I think, be unusual to complain about any wrong, imagined or
true,  it you were not seeking redress. No?

> Please do continue!

:-)


                          llessuR

2011\06\27@114952 by Denny Esterline

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On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 8:19 AM, RussellMc <EraseMEapptechnzspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

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Wow. Just, wow.
I'm not sure which disturbs me more. How much of that I understood, or how
much I didn't.

-Denny

2011\06\27@120108 by RussellMc

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> Wow. Just, wow.
> I'm not sure which disturbs me more. How much of that I understood, or how
> much I didn't.
> -Denny

Thankee kindee sir.
(Doffs cloth cap).

I think is all made variable sense. Some intentionally more obtuse than other.
"Naming of Parts" is worthwhile if you have not met it. And, possibly,
if you have.

2011\06\27@120618 by RussellMc
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> Only kiddies books and the Bible have "points". Regular text doesn't and
> it's not a problem.

Even with jots and tittles et al there are some words in the Bible OT
which are uncertain due to lack of vowels.

In some cases perhaps the original progenitor of the passage intended
all such meanings ? :-)


2011\06\27@122957 by John Gardner

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....Don't ask me how I know....

Rats - Just when it was getting interesting  :

2011\06\27@154840 by Michael Watterson

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On 27/06/2011 17:03, RussellMc wrote:
> In some cases perhaps the original progenitor of the passage intended
> all such meanings ?:-)
>
so it is written by some of the famous sages...

It's stranger that tha

2011\06\28@032039 by RussellMc

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>> In some cases perhaps the original progenitor of the passage intended
>> all such meanings ?:-)

> so it is written by some of the famous sages...

Original.

           Russel

2011\06\28@042952 by Michael Watterson

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On 28/06/2011 08:19, RussellMc wrote:
>>> In some cases perhaps the original progenitor of the passage intended
>>> all such meanings ?:-)
>> so it is written by some of the famous sages...
> Original.
>
>              Russell

I mean the "sages" agree with your point.

The Word descending to Earth is like the hammer striking an Anvil. Each of the 1000s of sparks is the written word

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