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'[OT] New drive slows processing'
2010\11\23@183343 by ivp

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Hi all

I've replaced a failed IDE drive with a SATA and notice that
at least two applications are taking much longer than before.
My uninformed guess is that the data buss is not properly
configured

The previous set-up was

Primary Master 80GB IDE (XP boot)
Primary Slave 160GB IDE (failed)
Secondary Master DVD IDE
320GB USB external
1TB USB external

New set-up is

Primary Slave 80GB IDE (XP boot)
Secondary Master DVD IDE
3rd Master 500GB SATA
320GB USB external
1TB USB external

For the time-being I preferred to keep the 80GB as the boot drive
so I don't need to spend time re-installing the hardware, and Desktop
is still the same etc

Two instances of slowing down -

Writing a DVD data disk. It used to take around 15 mins @ 8x,
now it takes 80 mins and CPU useage is almost 100%. Even the
mouse pointer moves jerkily. Verification is down to 1.2x, it used
to be > 8x

Processing a video from avi to rmvb with Real Producer. Time was
generally about 1.5x file duration, eg 30 min clip would take 45 min.
Now it would be almost 2 hours

In both cases, particularly video processing, I note that as the
conversion progresses it gets slower and slower, as if there's some
increasing bottlenecking. I've not found a source-destination
drive combination that's noticeably faster. Perhaps whatever I
chose has to go through some common point which is the problem

Inter-drive (any source-destination) copying seems reasonably fast
though

It's a dual-processor mobo and I think that now one of the two
processors is shouldering almost all of the burden, as seen in Task
Manager. I'm pretty sure that previously the sharing was 80:20,
but now it's 100:0

Any assistance would be appreciated

TIA

Joe

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2010\11\23@184654 by Jake Anderson

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check that DMA is enabled for the drive, look at the SATA modes you have available in bios if you cant enable DMA.

also look to see what is using the CPU

On 24/11/10 10:33, ivp wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2010\11\23@192938 by ivp

face picon face
> check that DMA is enabled for the drive, look at the SATA modes
> you have available in bios if you can't enable DMA

What I see in BIOS set-up is

ST3500418AS (SATA)

PIO Mode : 4
Asynch DMA : MultiWord DMA-2
Ultra DMA : Ultra DMA-6
DMA Mode : [Auto]
32-bit Transfer : [Disabled]

Select DMA Mode
Auto : Auto Detected
SWDMAn : SingleWord DMAn
MWDMAn : MultiWord DMAn
UDMAn : Ultra DMAn

Samsung SP0802N (Primary Slave boot)

PIO Mode : 4
Asynch DMA : MultiWord DMA-2
Ultra DMA : Ultra DMA-5
DMA Mode : [Auto]
32-bit Transfer : [Disabled]

Joe

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2010\11\23@195322 by Jake Anderson

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DMA needs to be enabled in windows
http://www.onthegosoft.com/dma_setting_nt.htm

you might try enabling 32bit transfer too

If your not already use an 80 wire cable to the old drive.

On 24/11/10 11:28, ivp wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2010\11\24@011902 by ivp

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> DMA needs to be enabled in windows
> http://www.onthegosoft.com/dma_setting_nt.htm

'DMA when available' was already selected

> you might try enabling 32bit transfer too

Done

> If your not already use an 80 wire cable to the old drive.

80-wire cable already used

No change unfortunately

I noticed right at the start of a test burn, 'Time remaining 8:20". That
8m20 came and went. Still took nearly 80 minutes to burn a DVD
data disk

Joe

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2010\11\24@025257 by CDB

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:: I noticed right at the start of a test burn, 'Time remaining
:: 8:20". That
:: 8m20 came and went. Still took nearly 80 minutes to burn a DVD
:: data disk

If you disable the new Sata drive, does the DVD burning go back to normal speed?

Is the Sata drive set up as true Sata AHCI on the BIOS or as pseudo IDE?

Colin
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2010\11\24@055521 by ivp

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> If you disable the new Sata drive, does the DVD burning go
> back to normal speed?

Nope. The burn did start off with more of a hiss and a roar but
quickly slowed down, and ooooh turned to oh. All through the
burn it's saying that writing is at 8x (11,080kb/s) but it's not really.
It might be trying to

In Task Manager the only activity is a couple of % for Nero and
the rest for System Idle

I also moved the 80GB from Primary Master to Primary Slave,
so each internal drive is a Master on its own cable

> Is the Sata drive set up as true Sata AHCI on the BIOS or
> as pseudo IDE?

I can find no reference to AHCI or pseudo-IDE, although the
boot screen says "Auto-detecting 3rd Master..IDE Hard Disk

2010\11\24@061917 by ivp

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> I also moved the 80GB from Primary Master to Primary Slave,
> so each internal drive is a Master on its own cable

Typo, sorry - Slave to Maste

2010\11\24@131624 by Roel Adriaans

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Op 24-11-2010 11:54, ivp schreef:
>
> I can find no reference to AHCI or pseudo-IDE, although the
> boot screen says "Auto-detecting 3rd Master..IDE Hard Disk"

What brand and type of motherboard do you have?

Also, upgrade the drivers for your motherboard and bios.
(Chipset, IDE and/or sata drivers).

If you're running XP, make sure you have the latest servicepack installed.
They also provides updates to the sata/ide drivers and underlaying stuff.

..Roel

2010\11\25@065412 by Alan Melia

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Simples...  IDE is as fast as the slowest device.  Now your new set-up have
your boot device and IDE on the same chain then your disk is running at the
same speed as your DVD drive.

Spend a £10 (or whatever your currency is) and put in an additional
controller for the DVD.

Alan Melia
w: http://www.melmac.co.uk

{Original Message removed}

2010\11\25@072353 by Michael Watterson

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 On 25/11/2010 11:53, Alan Melia wrote:
{Quote hidden}

no, the DVD drive is on a separate port with its own IRQ.

Also it too is much slower than it was before. Something else is wrong.

What you say would only apply if HDD and DVD are Master & Slave on same port. Which is not a good idea

2010\11\25@074217 by ivp

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> Also it too is much slower than it was before. Something
> else is wrong

Been playing around with it again today. Still not found a
cause that's obvious to me. The application which has slowed
that has me puzzled is Real Producer. VirtualDub is fine

I'm wondering if there's a 'ghost' of the missing IDE drive
that failed. The MPU is trying to access it and some sort of
"Not there" error process is slowing the whole lot down

Hmmmmm.......

I think it's time to strip the system down and re-build

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2010\11\25@104037 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 11:53 +0000, Alan Melia wrote:
> Simples...  IDE is as fast as the slowest device.  Now your new set-up have
> your boot device and IDE on the same chain then your disk is running at the
> same speed as your DVD drive.

Actually, on newer boards that's a myth, modern controllers can support
whatever speed each device can run at.

From: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Parallel_ATA


[edit] "Lowest speed"
It is a common misconception that, if two devices of different speed
capabilities are on the same cable, both devices' data transfers will be
constrained to the speed of the slower device.

For all modern ATA host adapters this is not true, as modern ATA host
adapters support independent device timing. This allows each device on
the cable to transfer data at its own best speed. Even with older
adapters without independent timing, this effect only applies to the
data transfer phase of a read or write operation. This is usually the
shortest part of a complete read or write operation.[18]


TTYL

2010\11\25@132648 by Alan Melia

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Ok my mistake.  Why do you have your boot drive as the only thing on the
primary channel why is it a slave?

'Slow' does not really provide any enough information but IF you have not
re-installed the OS then I would suggest doing a parallel install of the OS
and see if that also is 'slow'.  If it is then it is h/w otherwise you are
likely to have now redundant configuration settings which are still looking
for the missing drive.  This is just a guess based on experience.
Occasional pause in the UI are indicative of a stalled i/o operation.

Alan Melia
t: 0118 977 4963
m: 0781 771 0060
w: http://www.melmac.co.uk


{Original Message removed}

2010\11\26@004717 by Justin Richards

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> I'm wondering if there's a 'ghost' of the missing IDE drive
> that failed. The MPU is trying to access it and some sort of
> "Not there" error process is slowing the whole lot down

I have experienced similar issues after re-arranging drives and could
not explain why disk to disk transfers became so slow especially since
the re-arrangements I thought would improve things.

I also had a feeling that it was trying to access something that was
no longer there.

The solution for me was as you have suggested was to format and start
from scratch and add drives 1 at a time.  Everything ran ok after
that.

Something that I did not check back then that I would check now is the
event log.  It may provide a clue.

Cheers Justi

2010\11\26@005745 by ivp

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> The solution for me was as you have suggested was to format and
> start from scratch and add drives 1 at a time.  Everything ran ok
> after that
>
> Something that I did not check back then that I would check now
> is the event log.  It may provide a clue

Thanks. I'll do that. As everything else is just the way I like it, a format
is a bit down the list. Although I'm putting up with the slowness for now,
it it really is a pain and I will probably have to sacrifice some time soon
and sort it out thoroughly. I haven't got one to hand but I'd like to grab
an IDE drive and connect it as the Primary Slave (which is the missing
one from the previous set-up) to see what happens

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2010\11\26@010554 by Bob Blick

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On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:57:18 +1300, "ivp" said:

> Thanks. I'll do that. As everything else is just the way I like it, a
> format
> is a bit down the list. Although I'm putting up with the slowness for
> now,
> it it really is a pain and I will probably have to sacrifice some time
> soon
> and sort it out thoroughly. I haven't got one to hand but I'd like to
> grab
> an IDE drive and connect it as the Primary Slave (which is the missing
> one from the previous set-up) to see what happens

It may have been mentioned already, but just came to mind - have the IRQ
channels rearranged themselves? Perhaps one is being shared that doesn't
like being shared.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

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2010\11\26@021338 by Richard Prosser

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Have you tried:-

open in safe mode
start "device manager"
select "view all items" (might be "hidden items" - not sure)
delete any drives etc found but not in use since the change.

Restart as normal.

{Hopefully it would delete any unused drivers)

RP

On 26 November 2010 18:05, Bob Blick <.....bobblickKILLspamspam@spam@ftml.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2010\11\26@084554 by Olin Lathrop

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ivp wrote:
> I haven't got
> one to hand but I'd like to grab an IDE drive and connect it as the
> Primary Slave (which is the missing
> one from the previous set-up) to see what happens

I haven't really been following this, but I thought that if you only have a
single device on a IDE channel it needs to be the slave.  Maybe that's just
superstition, but I know it was a common thing to ensure back when IDE the
predominant disk interconnect.  I can't see how it could hurt.


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2010\11\26@085412 by Olin Lathrop

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> I haven't really been following this, but I thought that if you only
> have a single device on a IDE channel it needs to be the slave.
> Maybe that's just superstition, but I know it was a common thing to
> ensure back when IDE the predominant disk interconnect.  I can't see
> how it could hurt.

Doh.  I meant to say "single device ... it needs to be the master".


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2010\11\26@094516 by RussellMc

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In the past (not for some years) I've had drive combinations that
would not work well together - usually different brands of drive on
the same system. On some such, no amount of playing seemed to produce
an acceptable result. YMMV..


         Russel

2010\11\28@040538 by ivp

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> In the past (not for some years) I've had drive combinations that
> would not work well together - usually different brands of drive
> on the same system. On some such, no amount of playing seemed
> to produce an acceptable result. YMMV..

MMDV

I installed XP (and a specific few applications) on the new 500GB
SATA and made that the boot drive. My other XP is on the 80GB
drive, which was previously the boot drive and my workday drive

Booting from the 500GB has restored full speed to the DVD. A
4GB 8x burn + verify now takes 14m instead of the complained-
about 80+m. Real Producer processing time has also significantly
reduced, back down to where it used to be. Inter-drive copying is
also faster

CPU useage whilst burning with Nero has dropped from almost
100% down to 1%

So, it seems there is nothing inherently wrong with the hardware
but XP on the 80GB drive has got really upset about that missing
drive. I'd looked through the Error Viewer and there are yellow
and red drive alerts everywhere

For the time being I'll organise my activities so that I can re-boot
to burn or process. When time permits I'll strip the machine down
and try to find out what the problem is

Thanks for suggestions

Joe

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